Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement

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iHicksy said:
Was looking for the white text, sadly you seem to have misplaced it along with your common sense.

Rashford, Maguire, Mainoo, Awb, Shaw, Mctominay (born in lancaster not scottish) Sancho, Tom Heaton, Mount....

Not enough Brexit for you?
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Enzo likes this.
 
Regardless of the value and all that it’s just bloody refreshing to see our transfer business done smoothly and quickly for a change. I think Ugarte would be a good addition to our midfield.
 
simonhch said:
Swiss Rumble has already explained that we don’t effectively have many limits on PSR anymore. They calculated we can easily spend 250m this summer without having any concerns.

So the only limits financially are actual cash flow, and our internal limits on sustainable spending. I don’t believe any player has to leave for us to be able to sign anyone unless we literally have no cash in the bank and no access to credit facilities.

I believe we will be working hard to balance the books over the course of the summer and we will see plenty of outgoings to accomplish that, but I don’t believe for a second that we aren’t able to buy anyone without selling. The hard data just doesn’t support it.

We have cleverly repositioned the perception of the club as being unable to spend, thus proving a powerful negotiating tool, but the idea that we HAVE to sell to buy, from a purely financial perspective, has been debunked by those willing to look hard enough into the facts.

PSR was a concern up to June 30th, but with 21/22’s exceptional losses now dropping out of the three year cycle, we no longer have any PSR concerns. In fact, it’s been explained that will the pure profit sales of academy players this summer, and the wage reductions from losing Martial, Varane, and not playing in the CL, we could effectively afford to sign 4 players for 100m each on 300k p/wk contracts and still not breach PSR this season. We’ll never come close to that outlay, but it’s perfectly within the clubs reach to spend 200-250m this summer without selling anyone.
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Nicely put together and totally correct.

I don't think the club has financial limits, but probably they are being cautious and smart on what and how to spend.
 
Highfather_24 said:


Food for thought.
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I don't want to be negative, but is he really the right sort of player for our midfield woes? you could argue that what we most crucially need is someone who can be a solid defensive anchor and contribute on the incisive passing side. Maybe someone more like Zubimendi? If we're fielding someone who sounds like more of a combative ball winner there, who's going to progress the ball? By the sound of it, Yoro isn't that kind of player either.
 
justsomebloke said:
I don't want to be negative, but is he really the right sort of player for our midfield woes? you could argue that what we most crucially need is someone who can be a solid defensive anchor and contribute on the incisive passing side. Maybe someone more like Zubimendi? If we're fielding someone who sounds like more of a combative ball winner there, who's going to progress the ball? By the sound of it, Yoro isn't that kind of player either.
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That price is a no-no for me. I think he's too limited to be demanding that sort of fee. I think he obviously would be extremely useful in our squad at the right price, but I don't think Zubimendi works, because we have the possession focussed midfielder in Mainoo and he lacks true athelticism. We need someone with athleticism and defensive nous, more than a tempo controller, in my opinion.
 
Reckon we will negotiate a fee of around 45-50 million pounds for him and try to cover that by getting at least 25 million for Casemiro.

Perhaps next year we will prioritize a proper DLP and move ugarte to compete with mainoo and maybe mount.
 
The bar of comparison is Onana to Villa. We shouldn't be paying more than that, should be less, like around 30 - 40 millions.
 
justsomebloke said:
I don't want to be negative, but is he really the right sort of player for our midfield woes? you could argue that what we most crucially need is someone who can be a solid defensive anchor and contribute on the incisive passing side. Maybe someone more like Zubimendi? If we're fielding someone who sounds like more of a combative ball winner there, who's going to progress the ball? By the sound of it, Yoro isn't that kind of player either.
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I don't think it's being negative. Whilst last season we definitely lacked legs in our midfield, the more pressing issue that we have had for a longer period of time going back many seasons is a lack of comfortability on the ball in the midfield. Some posters have mentioned Ugarte having similar qualities to Kante in terms of ball winning however, Kante is very comfortable on the ball in tight spaces and a decent passer whereas it looks like Ugarte's strength mainly lies in the ball winning side of things. Whilst I wouldn't say no to Ugarte for a decent fee (which to me shouldn't really be more than €40mil or €50mil with add ons), if PSG are expecting us to pay 60/70mil then I'm sure there are midfielders out there that we can spend that money on to fulfill the same role.
 
justsomebloke said:
I don't want to be negative, but is he really the right sort of player for our midfield woes? you could argue that what we most crucially need is someone who can be a solid defensive anchor and contribute on the incisive passing side. Maybe someone more like Zubimendi? If we're fielding someone who sounds like more of a combative ball winner there, who's going to progress the ball? By the sound of it, Yoro isn't that kind of player either.
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I have the same worry. Since Mainoo is more of a ball carrier, and Bruno is the creator, we need our #6 to help out with the progressive passing and help switch play and stuff. But we also need our #6 to be a physical presence(to offset Martinez's weaknesses), and cover for Mainoo and Bruno's lack of physicality. Its a difficult piece of puzzle.

---Ugarte--Mainoo
--------Bruno

Is not a bad midfield, but lacks passing incisiveness in the middle of the park. A prime Carrick would have been a great partner for Mainoo.

If we get Ugarte, we also need to find a Eriksen replacement(preferably with a similar skillset), otherwise we will lack balance in midfield. We need to find a playmaker #8, a Kroos/Modric/Scholes type. If we find that player, eventually that player will replace Bruno, and this will be a solid midfield :

----------Ugarte
Mainoo---Creative #8
 
I want Ugarte but 59m is bonkers. What happened to the rumored 38m? I would definitely do a loan and if he's great, sign him, if we don't like him after a year we can go all out next summer for our desired midfielder since the ST and CB spots have hopefully been filled for the forseeble future at the end of this window.
 
Lash said:
That price is a no-no for me. I think he's too limited to be demanding that sort of fee. I think he obviously would be extremely useful in our squad at the right price, but I don't think Zubimendi works, because we have the possession focussed midfielder in Mainoo and he lacks true athelticism. We need someone with athleticism and defensive nous, more than a tempo controller, in my opinion.
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I think we need someone with athleticism, defensive nous AND good passing. Mainoo adds quality, but he's not the type of player who'll be your bread-and-butter ball progressor.
 
flameinthesun said:
I don't think it's being negative. Whilst last season we definitely lacked legs in our midfield, the more pressing issue that we have had for a longer period of time going back many seasons is a lack of comfortability on the ball in the midfield. Some posters have mentioned Ugarte having similar qualities to Kante in terms of ball winning however, Kante is very comfortable on the ball in tight spaces and a decent passer whereas it looks like Ugarte's strength mainly lies in the ball winning side of things. Whilst I wouldn't say no to Ugarte for a decent fee (which to me shouldn't really be more than €40mil or €50mil with add ons), if PSG are expecting us to pay 60/70mil then I'm sure there are midfielders out there that we can spend that money on to fulfill the same role.
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It does seem excessive.

Kante: I've been thinking actually that Mainoo reminds me quite a lot about him. Not a defensive midfielder in the normal sense and not an attacking one in the normal sense either, just someone who is smart, press resistant and technically excellent. A quality-adder.
 
justsomebloke said:
I think we need someone with athleticism, defensive nous AND good passing. Mainoo adds quality, but he's not the type of player who'll be your bread-and-butter ball progressor.
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Don't we all! I think he carries the ball to progress it (his drop of the shoulder or rolling players) and plays quick passes between the lines. He's not a defense splitter, but the same outcome is achieved, in my eyes anyway. If we can find said unicorn, we should go all out!
 
70m€ is too much. And they'd probably only agree to a loan with an hefty option to buy.
I suppose there's other options. Amrabat + Rabiot would probably be covered as far as transfer fees go by the same of either McTominay and Casemiro. Or we could be keeping the Brazilian but we need a second player at that position.
 
I see Ugarte as a half-way house (stylistically) between Fred and Casemiro -- high energy ball winner who is also a bit of a destroyer. For those reasons alone he will add something to our midfield as it's a profile we obvious miss.

I think he is far from enough alone, though. Get as many of the midfielders (not named Fernandes or Mainoo) out of the club and then replace them with another central midfielder who can play well under pressure and progresses the ball with high volume and accurate passes.
 
simonhch said:
Swiss Rumble has already explained that we don’t effectively have many limits on PSR anymore. They calculated we can easily spend 250m this summer without having any concerns.

So the only limits financially are actual cash flow, and our internal limits on sustainable spending. I don’t believe any player has to leave for us to be able to sign anyone unless we literally have no cash in the bank and no access to credit facilities.

I believe we will be working hard to balance the books over the course of the summer and we will see plenty of outgoings to accomplish that, but I don’t believe for a second that we aren’t able to buy anyone without selling. The hard data just doesn’t support it.

We have cleverly repositioned the perception of the club as being unable to spend, thus proving a powerful negotiating tool, but the idea that we HAVE to sell to buy, from a purely financial perspective, has been debunked by those willing to look hard enough into the facts.

PSR was a concern up to June 30th, but with 21/22’s exceptional losses now dropping out of the three year cycle, we no longer have any PSR concerns. In fact, it’s been explained that will the pure profit sales of academy players this summer, and the wage reductions from losing Martial, Varane, and not playing in the CL, we could effectively afford to sign 4 players for 100m each on 300k p/wk contracts and still not breach PSR this season. We’ll never come close to that outlay, but it’s perfectly within the clubs reach to spend 200-250m this summer without selling anyone.
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I think you're looking at this too clinically from a PSR / accounting view.

If Ugarte comes in, he's clearly replacing Casemiro. Casemiro won't sit on the bench. United won't pay those wages to someone not starting.

Reading between the lines, Casemiro needs to be sold for this to happen. Yes, from the perspective of how you have explained the situation, we have less limits now and could buy a load of players "theoretically" under PSR. We need cash to pay fees / pay wages, obviously. That is the real world, and not the accounting world, and hence is the actual limit, and our capacity to assume debt, spend sustainably, all that good stuff.

However, there is also the squad management world, which is how I interpreted the above tweet. Mainoo is nailed on in the midfield. Ugarte, or whoever is signed, will be played beside him. Casemiro or Eriksen will have to be sold, because.. well obviously?

Honestly, the obsession with PSR, accounting rules, fees etc has become so odd. It's like, if you buy a new couch, are you going to keep your old one, or try and sell it second hand for some money back because you don't want an old couch sitting around in the way and taking up space?
 
justsomebloke said:
I don't want to be negative, but is he really the right sort of player for our midfield woes? you could argue that what we most crucially need is someone who can be a solid defensive anchor and contribute on the incisive passing side. Maybe someone more like Zubimendi? If we're fielding someone who sounds like more of a combative ball winner there, who's going to progress the ball? By the sound of it, Yoro isn't that kind of player either.
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Well it depends, there isn't a rule that all mid fields should have the make-up you're suggesting. No one in the world has a defender as elite in passing between the lines and progressing the ball as Martinez, to the point where Pep singled him and that quality out as the main reason behind the FA Cup final loss, especially tactical loss.Therefore, in our case, that balance is there and being provided by the CB.

I'm also surprised about the notion that Mainoo is not a great passer. His natural technique and the way he zips the ball right to the players strong foot suggests with experience he has the potential to be an elite incisive passer. Just because he is also great at running and progressing with the ball does not mean we should discount his passing. This isn't aimed at you btw, I have just seen a general false narrative that came out of nowhere about Mainoo being limited in that area.
 
justsomebloke said:
I don't want to be negative, but is he really the right sort of player for our midfield woes? you could argue that what we most crucially need is someone who can be a solid defensive anchor and contribute on the incisive passing side. Maybe someone more like Zubimendi? If we're fielding someone who sounds like more of a combative ball winner there, who's going to progress the ball? By the sound of it, Yoro isn't that kind of player either.
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Zubimendi relatively speaking isn’t all that progressive either.

You’d get far more progression out of the players I listed than him.
 
No way we're paying anywhere near the asking price considering what was rumoured in the last few weeks. We're basically funding PSG's Joao Neves acquisition, so surely we're in a decent position to drive Ugarte's price down.

I trust in INEOS to make the right deal.
 
They're taking the piss if thats what they want. We should be hijacking their Neves deal for a similar amount.
 
€70m is obviously too much.

Around €50m is about right considering he’s not wanted at PSG, they paid €60m for him so we shouldn’t be giving them profit on this.
 
After signing a forward and a defender, United's primary focus will be on signing a midfielder in the coming weeks. Manuel Ugarte looks the most likely addition, as long as a compromise on his fee can be reached, with Paris Saint-Germain understood to value him at roughly £50 million.

United would need to sell players in order to finance such a move, or look at ways around paying the fee upfront, such as spreading it over a number of years (as they have done with Zirkzee) or securing a loan deal with the option to make it permanent at the end. They are open to selling midfielder Casemiro, Hannibal and Scott McTominay this summer.

It is for these reasons a move for Benfica ace Joao Neves is seen as unlikely. The 19-year-old is of interest to the club and is believed to be open to the move, but his transfer fee may be too high for them to afford right now. In order to get the best value for money, United are also considering a number of loan deals and free agents this summer, with Adrien Rabiot viewed as another possibility to strengthen their midfield.
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The cheek asking for 10m more than they spent on him, he's a flop and the manager doesn't want him.

Di Maria, a far better player, was sold for his value on the books after one season when PSG got him.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
It is strange how Erik did U turn regarding no6 position. From playmaker like De Jong being priority, he decided to go for destroyers Casemiro and now Ugarte.
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What u-turn are you talking about? He has already said he wanted both.
 
PSG can feck off, go for Neves or a cheaper alternative. Don‘t overpay for cast offs.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
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We just give PSG the same treatment we gave to Everton and that is we move on to another target because they are asking too much for their player.
They were not even playing him at the end of their season so he is a squad option for them so 35-40mil should be more than enough or just give them Casemiro +20mil.
Simples!.
 
They won’t get 70m from anybody and they need the cash to buy Neves. It will be done for around 50m I reckon
 
As for funding, I sort of reckon the club is maybe trying to earn 1 for every 2 spent while keeping the squad number stable & addressing the wage structure (with more millions "saved" for the coming years). It would be quite the feat to seemingly massively improve the squad as we are doing on something approaching close to neutral financial footprint.

All that said, having Ugarte (or alternative) as the sole dedicated 6 is as much of a problem of just only having Casemiro on the match sheet. There probably need to be another swap in the squad to be more balanced. That's why I feel it would perhaps be more sensible to sell McT and replace him with a different profile of an actual DM.
 
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