Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement

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Holters said:
"Tell me you haven't watched Mainoo without telling me you haven't watched Mainoo".
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Any critique of Kobbie around here and people lose it, even the most easily observable ones

When I watch him, look at his pass maps (these are very interesting), check his statistics - he’s not a good progressive passer at this moment in his career. To be clear, he’s in the bottom 9th percentile

He is a solid progressive carrier but that is typically less important in his role because high percentile progressive passers move the ball forward much more both in frequency and distance than progressive carriers

I really rate Kobbie and he’s young enough to improve his game a great deal still (which is incredibly exciting), but you lot must take off the red-tinted specs - he has much to do

As for what this means with Ugarte. If he comes I think our midfield will continue to really struggle to progress the ball and use it effectively - since most forward passing will still flow to Bruno, but we’ll certainly be more sound defensively
 
CasaStreets said:
Any critique of Kobbie around here and people lose it, even the most easily observable ones

When I watch him, look at his pass maps (these are very interesting), check his statistics - he’s not a good progressive passer at this moment in his career. To be clear, he’s in the bottom 9th percentile

He is a solid progressive carrier but that is typically less important in his role because high volume progressive passers will categorically move the ball forward much more both in frequency and distance than progressive carriers

I really rate Kobbie and he’s young enough to improve his game a great deal yet which is incredibly exciting, but you lot must take off the red-tinted specs - he has much to do

As for what this means with Ugarte. If he comes I think our midfield will continue to really struggle to progress the ball and use it effectively - but it will certainly be more sound defensively
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Are you willfully ignoring the people who pointed out explanations for why the stats are misleading?
 
Semper Fudge said:
I'm sorry, but this shows that you either don't watch our games or you lack a fundamental understanding of football.
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Holters said:
"Tell me you haven't watched Mainoo without telling me you haven't watched Mainoo".
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I reckon he saw Mainoo's 96% pass completion stat that was doing the rounds last week and from reading that he assumed he only passed sideways and backwards.
 
Teja said:
Are you willfully ignoring the people who pointed out explanations for why the stats are misleading?
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I saw your previous post but it didn’t make sense to me. You’re saying if he receives it more his progressive passing will improve on a percentile basis but it doesn’t explain the fact that he’s in a higher percentile in terms of total passes vs progressive passes

In other words, he under-indexes on progressive passing vs other midfielders in the top leagues. It’s not his tendency or what he’s been successful at thus far - but like I said, certainly has lots of time and ability to improve
 
CasaStreets said:
Mainoo is not a good ball progressor - at least not when he’s played for us

A midfield 3 of Ugarte, Mainoo, and Bruno will remain almost entirely reliant on Bruno to move the ball forward creatively

I think this is why we want de Ligt, so we have two progressive CBs to make up for an Ugarte-Mainoo duo in front of them
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How many people having a go at this post have watched Kobbie play at youth level, his physicality, ball control, and ball carrying were and still are top-shelf, but he had the weakest passing range of the quartet he played alongside the likes of Gore, Oyedele, Hansen-Aarøen were all better passers than him and his time in the first-team hasn't turned him into Carrick over night.

Kobbie is a damn near world-class ball carrier but is liking not going to develop into a player that can dictate the tempo of a game.
 
Infra-red said:
I don't think it has ever got beyond a crawl - Ornstein reported earlier this week that United do have some interest in the player but there was disagreement internally about whether or not to pursue it. United are nowhere near placing bids or agreeing terms etc. The Athletic have also reported that we are considering loan options for midfield.

PSG and the player's agent have probably been shopping him around a bit - hence the reports.
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Think we will get better idea of this next week
 
bosskeano said:
loan with option to buy is a hard sell when it's PSG and ManUnited you are talking about...it's not like PSG is loaning him to Burnley with the option knowing United has money. Simple alteration could be a loan fee we pay that makes the deal look better and if we take up the option, that monies go to the over all fee otherwise they keep the money


Case hopefully gets shipped to Saudi Arabia for 50m quid and Scott T can't defend to save himself
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PSG themselves signed Kylian Mbappe for 166m following a one year loan. It’s just accounting and quite feasible.
 
Infra-red said:
I don't think it has ever got beyond a crawl - Ornstein reported earlier this week that United do have some interest in the player but there was disagreement internally about whether or not to pursue it. United are nowhere near placing bids or agreeing terms etc. The Athletic have also reported that we are considering loan options for midfield.

PSG and the player's agent have probably been shopping him around a bit - hence the reports.
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Philippe Auclair said today that the price is €60mil. It's up to Utd. Auclair didn't say anything too different to Orstein. I presume we want Casemiro confirmed as leaving before we pursue. Or that Ugarte is the backup option to João Neves who PSG want as well.

Buying Ugarte maybe frees up funds for PSG to buy Neves and we don't want to enable them to do that?!
 
CasaStreets said:
Mainoo is not a good ball progressor - at least not when he’s played for us

A midfield 3 of Ugarte, Mainoo, and Bruno will remain almost entirely reliant on Bruno to move the ball forward creatively

I think this is why we want de Ligt, so we have two progressive CBs to make up for an Ugarte-Mainoo duo in front of them
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Not sure I agree with that. He progresses the ball with pass-and-move football and with short dribbles. Bruno progresses the ball with passing.

Mainoo will be as progressive as the volume and quality of passes he receives allows him to be. Feed him the ball constantly - particularly when in tight spaces and under pressure, where you can often see him asking for it and being ignored by teammates who think he's not safe to receive it - and he will frequently make short line-breaking passes, turns and dribbles.
 
Hopefully we move on this fast. So that he can join us in pre season post his vacation.

Can't have another season with Case and Amrabat as our DM options!
 
DevilsOwn said:
Hopefully we move on this fast. So that he can join us in pre season post his vacation.

Can't have another season with Case and Amrabat as our DM options!
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That would be like throwing in the towel before the bell has even rung, it would lead to another wasted season. Really worried that the noise on Casemiro leaving seems really muted.
 
AneRu said:
That would be like throwing in the towel before the bell has even rung, it would lead to another wasted season. Really worried that the noise on Casemiro leaving seems really muted.
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Hopefully next week we hear some more about Case/Ugarte/Amrabat moves. I am very positive that the new regime will upgrade the DM position.
 
CasaStreets said:
Mainoo is not a good ball progressor - at least not when he’s played for us

A midfield 3 of Ugarte, Mainoo, and Bruno will remain almost entirely reliant on Bruno to move the ball forward creatively

I think this is why we want de Ligt, so we have two progressive CBs to make up for an Ugarte-Mainoo duo in front of them
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Oh dear
 
AneRu said:
That would be like throwing in the towel before the bell has even rung, it would lead to another wasted season. Really worried that the noise on Casemiro leaving seems really muted.
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It’a not muted at all he’s been linked with Saudi and a bid is imminent I’d be thinking
 
This is the one that I wanted the most so Sod’s Law it’s the one that seems likeliest to fizzle out.
 
ArbeitervonWien said:
We are we so certain this won't happen? Did I miss something?
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Transfer forum wild mood swings, hyperbole both directions.
He definitely had a weird season at PSG, isn't a Luis Enrique man, I think there's a possibility. It's just that any interest or negotiation is, seemingly, not as advanced as first reports.
 
Plastic Evra said:
Transfer forum wild mood swings, hyperbole both directions.
He definitely had a weird season at PSG, isn't a Luis Enrique man, I think there's a possibility. It's just that any interest or negotiation is, seemingly, not as advanced as first reports.
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Thanks. So the problem is, nothing happened though Uruguay are out of the Copa America for two whole days.
 
ArbeitervonWien said:
Thanks. So the problem is, nothing happened though Uruguay are out of the Copa America for two whole days.
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Something like that. And reports form the better sources he's on the list but still internally debated as a target.

I think PSG would be a little foolish to discard him after a year (and I expect they won't take less than 45-50m€). Seems he's one the few players with grinta over there and you need at least a couple even in a LE Paris Globe Trotters setup.
 
Adamsk7 said:
This is the one that I wanted the most so Sod’s Law it’s the one that seems likeliest to fizzle out.
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Ye he'd be the one I want most in midfield. We need more of the South American mentality. I’ve not really seen us linked with any other DM so surely we’re going all in on this guy but might be waiting to wrap up the CB deals first.
 
DJ_21 said:
Ye he'd be the one I want most in midfield. We need more of the South American mentality. I’ve not really seen us linked with any other DM so surely we’re going all in on this guy but might be waiting to wrap up the CB deals first.
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We need to sink our teeth in this transfer, we definitely need more bite in our midfield.
 
Everybody calm down. Uruguay are not finished at Copa America yet. He will be signed. In any case, we still need another midfielder in addition to him.
 
Vanrouge said:
Are you sure he was involved? I've seen multiple angles and a number of videos and I've obviously seen Darwin's involvement as well as Ronald Araújo and Mathias Olivera, the only ones I could positively identify. I didn't see Ugarte at all, which actually surprised me, given his on-field persona. :lol: You might be right, and perhaps there are clips I missed, though.
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His mother had fainted so he was likely busier with that than trying to play Mortal Kombat
 
Expect this to push on now that Uruguays copa America is finally over.
 
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