We're talking about Mainoo that plays for Man United and England, right? Think you've mistaken him for someone else.
Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement
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We're talking about Mainoo that plays for Man United and England, right? Think you've mistaken him for someone else.
I swear some people don't watch games sometimes
Clarence Seedorf just compared Mainoo to a more confident version of him. But apparently he's not a good ball progressor. Fair enough then.
I mean, Mainoo is mega but he progresses the ball more through his dribbling and movement more than his passing. He’s actually in the bottom 9th percentile for progressive passes on FBref for midfielders in top 5 leagues.
He’ll absolutely get better at it, but it is a fair criticism (or even just an observation) to raise.
He’ll absolutely get better at it, but it is a fair criticism (or even just an observation) to raise.
Wasn't Clarence himself just a slightly more athletic version of Tom Cleverley?
I think the poster meant that Mainoo is not a good progressive passer of the ball, which is clearly true at this moment. It's earlier in his career, though, and maybe he has it in his locker.
Erm, what the feck.
I think hes able to do it but doesn't force passes, its more about working situations to create relatively easy passes. He's able to do a bit of everything but a lot of it is fairly basic at this point to be honest. Theres a decent foundation to work on whatever direction you want to go with him but the dribbling and composure are the biggest features for me.
He really doesn't have enough recovery pace for the position, once the play is past him he struggles with catching up. I watched the qualifier away to Argentina, when Messi went past him and was able to gap him, Messi doesn't do that nowadays to top DMs. Our midfield could do with someone with a burst of acceleration for the quick counters we tend to get caught up in.
Also doesn't seem all that powerful either to me, bigger players tend to get the better of him in physical duels from what I have seen.
A combination that can be punishing for a DM in the PL
I wouldn't over-index on data. One part of ball progression is receiving the ball in the first place. If you look at his passes attempted, touches per 90 etc. it's pretty low. Once people start playing the ball to him and trusting him as the primary midfield outlet I think those numbers will get better. It's one where you rely on the eye test more than some rando twitter analyst putting up data to justify why Rice progresses the ball better than Mainoo.
Also, his progression via ball carrying is great already and probably the best part of his game.
I'm sorry, but this shows that you either don't watch our games or you lack a fundamental understanding of football.
So much wrong in one post
Mainoo is an excellent progressor. Don't just look at data without context. Mainoo is an excellent progressive dribbler, and in the opposing half is capable of playing the splitting/forward passes. In his own half, his role is to play things safer and keep the ball ticking along given Casemiro and Bruno treat the ball like a time bomb for United. That doesn't mean he isn't capable of it, more just his role and how he chooses to play in deeper areas, or how Ten Hag asks him to play it.
Ten Hag wants his deep progression to come more from the CB's, which is fine. Mainoo is purely a pressure reliever and link up guy in deep areas, but then takes responsibility in the attacking half to be more creative. It all depends on the system the coach asks the team to play, not a lack of having that skill. Mainoo generally isn't a super adventurous passer, but he can progress the play. He's an adventurous dribbler and a safe passer usually but loves the short link up passing. If you get the more expansive long range passing from the CB's and Bruno, then that's perfectly fine for the system IMO.
I would say this fella Mainoo and Bruno looks very balanced.
With Mainoo and Bruno you can't have someone with no balls, you need some steel. You've got a teenager still learning his craft in the defensive game and Bruno who can be a defensive liability. What you ideally want is someone both capable of defending and passing accurately and being reliable to take the ball.
Then you don't have to ask Mainoo to drop deep all the time and he can take the ball on the turn using his main skills at this stage. Brunos fecking job is to create so there's nothing wrong with him being the main one tasked to do that, that's why we're paying him. It's not for defensive skills or metronomic buildup that's for sure.
With Mainoo and Bruno you can't have someone with no balls, you need some steel. You've got a teenager still learning his craft in the defensive game and Bruno who can be a defensive liability. What you ideally want is someone both capable of defending and passing accurately and being reliable to take the ball.
Then you don't have to ask Mainoo to drop deep all the time and he can take the ball on the turn using his main skills at this stage. Brunos fecking job is to create so there's nothing wrong with him being the main one tasked to do that, that's why we're paying him. It's not for defensive skills or metronomic buildup that's for sure.
Some people make you wonder if you watch the same game. Imagine watching Bruno and Mainoo play and then claiming the former can help you progress the ball better in midfield 
Yearn for the days when people actually watched a player and not just reach judgements based on a stats wheel.
Zirkzee 12m gbp a month apprxoimately.
Say we get Ugarte with a loan and a mandatory option to buy, that leaves us a good chunk of cash to bring other players to the club.
Say we get Ugarte with a loan and a mandatory option to buy, that leaves us a good chunk of cash to bring other players to the club.
Best agent in the world
He better be good for that dosh.
I kinda defer to anyone we bring in being awesome, until they aren't. At least then there is some excitement and joy.
i just can't see PSG doing that sort of business especially after losing Mbappe for free
only comes out at 432 million over 3 years, best money ever spent!
That's what's holding up the deal currently per recent (somewhat unreliable) rumors. We went in with a loan + option to buy for 38m or so. Let's see I think if we choose to pay up he's ours.
What? No player in the world is on £3 million a week.
He wanted to write per year, the fee we pay Bologna per year for 3 years.
You maybe got good answers since but reading PSG forums : Huge start of the season, he was everywhere in the pitch for 2 months. Lackluster performances against Newcastle and Milan AC and struggled to regain form (or confidence, might be that sort of player). He was signed before Luis Enrique and is obviously not a profile the coach likes a lot.
This is a player we need badly, I hope there is some progress soon. I dont want to see Case or McT in that position ever again
loan with option to buy is a hard sell when it's PSG and ManUnited you are talking about...it's not like PSG is loaning him to Burnley with the option knowing United has money. Simple alteration could be a loan fee we pay that makes the deal look better and if we take up the option, that monies go to the over all fee otherwise they keep the money
Case hopefully gets shipped to Saudi Arabia for 50m quid and Scott T can't defend to save himself
Are you sure he was involved? I've seen multiple angles and a number of videos and I've obviously seen Darwin's involvement as well as Ronald Araújo and Mathias Olivera, the only ones I could positively identify. I didn't see Ugarte at all, which actually surprised me, given his on-field persona.
You might be right, and perhaps there are clips I missed, though.There's more than a few who post silly nonsensical stuff. Just ignore the posts.
PSG want €60mil (£50mil). What they spent on him initially. We won't get a discount on him. So we have to see if Utd can afford and want to do this deal.
There's a interesting piece about an internal war at PSG in "The Transfers" podcast. The aim of the club is to move to a model of getting the best young players in Europe instead of older established stars I.e. copying Madrid. The commercial arm of PSG want "established stars", so there is some internal strife at the club.
"Tell me you haven't watched Mainoo without telling me you haven't watched Mainoo".
As this slowed down?
I don't think it has ever got beyond a crawl - Ornstein reported earlier this week that United do have some interest in the player but there was disagreement internally about whether or not to pursue it. United are nowhere near placing bids or agreeing terms etc. The Athletic have also reported that we are considering loan options for midfield.
PSG and the player's agent have probably been shopping him around a bit - hence the reports.
Any critique of Kobbie around here and people lose it, even the most easily observable ones
When I watch him, look at his pass maps (these are very interesting), check his statistics - he’s not a good progressive passer at this moment in his career. To be clear, he’s in the bottom 9th percentile
He is a solid progressive carrier but that is typically less important in his role because high percentile progressive passers move the ball forward much more both in frequency and distance than progressive carriers
I really rate Kobbie and he’s young enough to improve his game a great deal still (which is incredibly exciting), but you lot must take off the red-tinted specs - he has much to do
As for what this means with Ugarte. If he comes I think our midfield will continue to really struggle to progress the ball and use it effectively - since most forward passing will still flow to Bruno, but we’ll certainly be more sound defensively
Are you willfully ignoring the people who pointed out explanations for why the stats are misleading?
I reckon he saw Mainoo's 96% pass completion stat that was doing the rounds last week and from reading that he assumed he only passed sideways and backwards.
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