Agreed. That’s exactly what you need if you want to be a possession based team.
Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement
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Agreed. That’s exactly what you need if you want to be a possession based team.
Ugarte-Mainoo-Fernandes on paper should be an excellent midfield trio. However my big fear lies in our midfield depth, as this has been an issue for us in the previous two seasons. As soon as Ugarte is out we’d be back to McTominay which as we know just does not work.
Alongside Ugarte we’d still need another 6 or 6/8 hybrid type player. Joao Neves or Baleba would be fantastic young options, but I’m also intrigued to see who else the new regime could have in mind. If we are to do Ugarte on a loan to buy to allow us to also get another 6 or 6/8 hybrid in this season, that would be very shrewd workings.
Alongside Ugarte we’d still need another 6 or 6/8 hybrid type player. Joao Neves or Baleba would be fantastic young options, but I’m also intrigued to see who else the new regime could have in mind. If we are to do Ugarte on a loan to buy to allow us to also get another 6 or 6/8 hybrid in this season, that would be very shrewd workings.
Great player, I hope we get him.
It's an issue, but one you either have to look for a promising academy player, or talented prospect to blood in, or the known squad/backup option (Amrabat). There's no way we are signing someone whose fee/wages are those of a first teamer.
I'm not so sure about this. To me, this still seems like a midfield that will be too open, primarily because Mainoo can not do recovery runs, he doesn't have the speed or the intensity to a lets say Valverde.
We will be super targeted In transitions. When our back line is settled, we should be OK.
Were Kroos and Modric capable of recovery runs? Or was Casemiro enough on his own to do the defensive work?
Do we think he can play with Casemiro in midfield, or is that too much of a defensive overkill? I would really love this pair to start together when we go to the Etihad or Emirates
You could have said the same about Valverde when he moved to Real from Peñarol. His nickname was "Pajarito" (little bird), now it is "Halcón" (falcon).
We owe it to the talent in Mainoo to stretch him and expect more of him. Ugarte can make up for any deficiencies in most games, maybe the tougher fixtures we need to work around it somehow (e.g. rotate the midfield triangle to a pivot and demand more from Bruno, or have Mainoo and Mount/McT and Bruno false 9, etc).
As you conclude, we need the right RCB more than we need to worry about this.
I think most of us think we are replacing and selling Casemiro here.
I think you’re wrong about that one. Mainoo showed he’s more than capable at defending when the team needs him to. He did it in the fa cup against city and also yesterday’s game for England where he made a quality tackle in our own area to block a shot. Ugarte is also a lot more defensive than Casemiro but that depends on what the manager wants him to do. Casemiro played way too high for a DM at times.
I read something the other day that said Casemiro as apologised to ETH for his performances last season and wants to stay and make it up to him. I’d be tempted to keep him if he’ll lower his wages but still sign Ugarte. Then we have some good options in midfield.
Ye the both of them could work against bigger teams. Casemiro also as the long range passing that Ugarte doesn’t so that could set us up in a counter attacking way.
I wouldn't mind that at all. Probably a luxury squad option and all contingent on offers we could get for him.
The only way Casemiro stays is if he significantly lowers his wages IMO.
What are you basing that on?
Sounds like something you personally want, not something feesable from the player or something the manager has asked for
He stays if he wants to stay it's as simple as that , United can't push him out or force him to lower his wages .
His passing range is a massive concern, Eriksen was a big factor in the team looking a lot better in the 22-23 season which is why I think a DLP in the mold of Caqueret or Locatelli would be better suited to fixing our current weaknesses.
More just off logic. United is looking to sign a DM and is trying to sell him. He'd be able to fit into the structure off what we want to do with the squad if he lowers his wages, but they aren't going to keep a squad player on 350k a week.
I should say though, they will try to get rid of him and only stop trying if Casemiro lowers his wages. There's always the chance that we can't move him on and that fecks our transfer plans elsewhere.
I think you are underestimating Modric's ability to do defensive work. Modric was absolutely capable of those. There was a clip of him sprinting from Real Madrid corner to his own box to stop City counter.
I'm not saying he can't do any defensive work, I remeber his goal line clearance against Everton. Where I do believe he will struggle is when he will have players running at him. I would love to be proven wrong. However, he does seem slow in those instances.
Sincerely hope you are correct. I just dont want to have his deficiency exposed.
How do you know we're trying to sell him and that we're getting a big enough offer that we want him to take?
When you sign a superstar player and agree to pay them however much over a certain amount of time thats it. Casemiro is getting his money unless he wants to move to a team that satisfy United's transfer demands. If we do find a buyer at whatever price point we've set, chances are we'll still be paying some of his wages.
I completely understand how you might personally want him to have lower wages because you arent impressed with his performances and want him to play less or leave, but it really doesnt work that way because his contract is until 2026 + the option of 1 more year (4 +1 signed in 2022)
But its completely unrealistic for a player with the high profile of Casemiro to just decide to not get paid what he was promised when he signed a few years ago.
Players we need to sign just to be functional:
1-2. Two CBs to replace Varane, Lindelof, and Maguire. Not to mention - de-risk how long Martinez was injured and in case he gets injured again
3. Left Back, because we have nobody but Shaw and he is horribly injury-prone
4. DMF because Casemiro is finished and will most likely be gone
5. Striker, because just Hojlund is unsustainable
we will almost certainlt sign these 5, but we have also been linked to signing two more:
6. More attacking right back, if AWB can be sold
7. Right winger if we sell Sancho, Greenwood, Pellistri, because Antony is useless and Amad is not enough
That is 7, mate
We haven’t been linked with a LB have we? I think we’ll sign another wide player before a LB, especially if sancho and Greenwood are leaving. That leaves us very short out wide.
Right, it is very strange that no specific left back has been discussed despite us having no LB all season last season. Everybody knows Shaw cannot stay fit and Malacia is nowhere to be found so it is unclear what the plan is. Even if Harry Amas is more ready than we think, he cannot possibly be our entire plan, that would be nuts
Seems the only player in our transfer plans who is a first choice selection for his country. Hope we announce him as soon as possible. Think he'll be another great player to have around Mainoo (Casemiro's experience the other one)
Yeah, there's no way that is happening. Whenever "lower wages" is brought up despite the player's contract not running out I remember a certain Winston Bogarde
Winston Bogarde said said:
I think he's a good player, but if the intention is for him be a Cas replacement in the same setup that we saw for 95% of last season, then he'll have the exact same struggles. He has a good engine but I suspect he won't have the mobility to cover those large spaces we leave in midfield.
We definitely MUST sign a new LB. It seems as if other teams like Arsenal or Chelsea are not really interested in Girona's Gutierrez, so we might have a good chance there.
Could be a great signing for the quoted price.
If we could somehow secure J. Neves too it would transform us.
If we could somehow secure J. Neves too it would transform us.
Obviously it's Casemiros choice. I'm not saying this from a my preference POV, I'm saying it from the POV of what the club will try to do. Players like Casemiro when they're not wanted tend to just leave and aren't the types to sit around and collect money if they aren't wanted. I don't think the club want him anymore, based on lots of reports. The only way the club would be fine keeping him (or wanting him to stay) is on lower wages, which like you said, is unlikely to happen. So that's why I think he'll leave.
While you're not wrong overall, I disagree with the premise as it would make us far more than functional. A CB, an LB (maybe a worthwhile LB/LCB), a DMF and a winger are the imperative ones needed. The winger is an interesting one, as Garnacho, while touted as an LW, has impressed as an RW, and makes the choice of addition contingent on whatever won't impair Garnacho's development.
The rest would be for depth or straight up upgrades/unicorns.
I don't know, the point I was addressing is that last season's PSR issues had no bearing on the transfer as there was nothing preventing an agreement from being made last month, since any agreed transfer would only become effective in July.
22/23 Eriksen has been replaced by Mainoo. Ugarte would replace Casemiro. The need for defensive solidity and retention of possession outweighs the need for creativity from deep. Not many quality DLPs realistically available, either.
Yeah, Casemiro was incredibly poor at delaying opponents attacks/counters this past year. He would commit 100% and either win the ball (frequently his first season) or get completely bypassed in a split second (last season) giving no additional time for our midfielders to make recovery runs.
I'm sure for the right offer we're happy to let him go but how many clubs are realistically offering somewhere near what we paid for him now?
The club arent going to want to let him go for much less than the £59 million we spent on him. If we let him go for much less than that 2 seasons after signing him then hes viewed as a failure.
Which of the top clubs have a spot for him and want to spend that money?
So I think a much more realistic outlook is hes staying to have a better season, or until he is unhappy because he's not playing if Ugarte comes in and a new CB comes in and both are great so he is never picked. Maybe then he wants games near the end of his career and he himself wants to move. Right now I'm sure he's very happy being paid handsomely and thinks he'll play well when picked next season and will play plenty of games.
I mean you have just named 3 potential options there, plus hopefully having Martinez and Dalot as additional cover there. Unless the club think Malacia has some terminal injury, he is still a young somewhat promising player who in addition to Shaw should be able to cover the majority of the game time. You can't have 3 first team fullbacks on high wages realistically unless at least one of them is well capable of covering in another position which few left backs can.
Kobbie is nowhere near as good a passer as Eriksen. His ball-carrying is almost world-class, but his passing has always been just good enough. Players like Hansen-Aarøen, Dan Gore, and Oyedele were all better passers than Kobbie at the youth level. I think we will get the beat out of Kobbie if we play him next to a rangy passer who can sit back and dictate the tempo.
I think the club would take a significant hit on the fee, it's a different ownership and I think they'll look at the chance to be rid of his wages as a big benefit. I also don't think Casemiro will want to stay if he's replaced as a starter with Ugarte coming in, so there's that aspect too.
We'll see who goes for him, if anyone. It'd be a Saudi club if anyone realistically.
Why would they want to sell him for lets say £10-12 million less and helping to pay his wages at a new club?
Theres loads of people still at the club that were involved in us signing him and who will want a positive feeling and spin on whats going on at the club. Plenty of super egos who thought the transfer is a good idea and one season with mistakes ruining good performances isnt going to completely change opinions.
Players have a poor season all the time and around those mistakes which were obviously bad - sitting yourself on the floor and not getting the ball or fouling the man is terrible and im sure he realizes that, he was still better than our other midfielders bar Mainoo and Fernandes who is so far forward hes essentially an attacker.
Same thing when he went to CB at the end of the season. He was one of our best CBs this season in the couple of games he had there because he was constantly winning the ball from their attackers, but he did make a couple of mistakes that took away from the performances and he should improve on those. Those mistakes were new and theres plenty of reason to believe he can sort it out going forward whether hes playing DM or CB.
Additionally one of the reasons we signed him was for his experience. Young midfielders and players at the club can learn a huge amount from him as someone who has won a lot of competitions. We've already lost some of that experience with Varane going, making it more valuable for Mainoo and the young midfielders we hope transition from our youth teams to the first team. Ugarte, McTominay and Amrabat dont have that to offer. Few of our players in any position have it to offer. Casemiro does
Please please get him.
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