Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement

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devilish said:
Fair enough. I don't follow the academy as much as I love to but I heard very good things about him. Maybe they are wrong

What about the rest? Do you agree with it? I am not excluding Eriksen leaving and us signing a second cm (especially if mcT leaves as well). However I can see us squeezing another year out of him if surrounded with the right players and he be is playing against the right opposition
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Eriksen is finished, he has zero to offer in my opinion and relying on him even for the odd games is setting us up for failure.

Last season he looked like a 38yo Scholes off the ball. He’s usually pretty great for Denmark but in the Euros he was a non factor too despite being covered by multiple DMs and Denmark playing 3 CBs.

Most importantly with how irresponsible Ten Hag’s midfield setup is Eriksen would age another 3 years next season. Not even prime Kante can save him unfortunately.
 
GeorgeBestHair said:
I would love to see him here. At least they know and you know what he is. A pure DM. That’s usually the way they make them in Uruguay. Haven’t seen too many offensive minded only MF since Enzo Francescoli and Alvaro Recoba come out if Uruguay after Tabarez took over in 2007. They just take the offense out of them early it seems except for barely a handful until he a few years ago.
I know Arsenal tried to make Lucas Torreria more offensive minded forgetting what he’s good at. Probably was just not good enough for PL in the long run.
I would like one Uruguayan who can make it here and was always disappointed Forlan did not.
Cavani was here too late in career than had a bit of a let down in attitude the next year.

Varela was just not ready for this league without more patience. Which this club cannot afford.
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welcome to the board....

Forlan could have had a brilliant career at United but unfortunately for him, he came to United at a time when we had Ruud, Cole, Yorke, Ole, Saha and then Ronaldo came along

I've watched each uruguay match and Ugarte has been very good in all of them. i think he would be brilliant alongside Mainoo as he has that aggressive style of play that Kobbie doesn't have defensively
 
bosskeano said:
Forlan could have had a brilliant career at United but unfortunately for him, he came to United at a time when we had Ruud, Cole, Yorke, Ole, Saha and then Ronaldo came along

I've watched each uruguay match and Ugarte has been very good in all of them. i think he would be brilliant alongside Mainoo as he has that aggressive style of play that Kobbie doesn't have defensively
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Could recreate a Haaland tackle
 
El Jefe said:
Eriksen is finished, he has zero to offer in my opinion and relying on him even for the odd games is setting us up for failure.

Last season he looked like a 38yo Scholes off the ball. He’s usually pretty great for Denmark but in the Euros he was a non factor too despite being covered by multiple DMs and Denmark playing 3 CBs.

Most importantly with how irresponsible Ten Hag’s midfield setup is Eriksen would age another 3 years next season. Not even prime Kante can save him unfortunately.
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My biggest concern last season was how light weight our midfield was. We had Casemiro who was in his 30s and set to hit the decline, Mount/Eriksen and Bruno who are no 10s + Rashy and Garnacho who are hardly great workers of the ball. ETH was aiming for a high line defense to add numbers into midfield. Unfortunately we had just 2 CBs who could play that game one of whom was Varane who was set to lose a yard of pace. I was 100% sure that Amrabat would eventually win a first team place alongside Casemiro. That didn't happen because of the sudden emergence of Mainoo. However I knew that the Casemiro-Mount-Bruno midfield was doomed before it even started.

This season ETH seem to have learnt from his mistakes by adding some workrate into the team. Ugarte is a work rate beast and Zirkzee will drop deep and help. Unfortunately Rome was not built in a day and at one point we'll be dependent on players leaving before we can new ones. If Casemiro and Eriksen do not leave then I struggle to see us add more then 1 player in CM. If that's the case then I can see us utilizing Mount/Eriksen alongside Bruno and Ugarte in the easier matches. However as you say its far from ideal
 
devilish said:
My biggest concern last season was how light weight our midfield was. We had Casemiro who was in his 30s and set to hit the decline, Mount/Eriksen and Bruno who are no 10s + Rashy and Garnacho who are hardly great workers of the ball. ETH was aiming for a high line defense to add numbers into midfield. Unfortunately we had just 2 CBs who could play that game one of whom was Varane who was set to lose a yard of pace. I was 100% sure that Amrabat would eventually win a first team place alongside Casemiro. That didn't happen because of the sudden emergence of Mainoo. However I knew that the Casemiro-Mount-Bruno midfield was doomed before it even started.

This season ETH seem to have learnt from his mistakes by adding some workrate into the team. Ugarte is a work rate beast and Zirkzee will drop deep and help. Unfortunately Rome was not built in a day and at one point we'll be dependent on players leaving before we can new ones. If Casemiro and Eriksen do not leave then I struggle to see us add more then 1 player in CM. If that's the case then I can see us utilizing Mount/Eriksen alongside Bruno and Ugarte in the easier matches. However as you say its far from ideal
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I would say Garnacho has improved massively in that regard. At some points last season it felt like he never stopped running. Agree with you on Ugarte, though, would add a lot to the work rate of the team centrally.
 
OsloRed said:
I would say Garnacho has improved massively in that regard. At some points last season it felt like he never stopped running. Agree with you on Ugarte, though, would add a lot to the work rate of the team centrally.
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Yeah I think that comment was harsh. Garnacho very much seems to be in the Rooney school of just keep running, no matter how good/bad you might be playing
 
bosskeano said:
Forlan could have had a brilliant career at United but unfortunately for him, he came to United at a time when we had Ruud, Cole, Yorke, Ole, Saha and then Ronaldo came along
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Eh? Cole and Yorke left before Forlan and Saha was signed after Forlan.
 
bosskeano said:
no...Saha played one year with Forlan in the squad but yes...cole and yorke left the year that forlan was signed
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Cole left in 2001 not 2002. Yorke left in 2002. And yes, Forlan and Saha did play together, not for one year but for few months.
 
Berbasbullet said:
Ugarte and De Ligt for 80-90m doesn’t seem bad business to me?
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I mean... For 8th placed United yeah. But they would both be coming in as cast offs from PSG and Bayern so for 2 such players its no small amount... But I think they're a bit better than given credit for so I'd take it personally.
 
El Jefe said:
Eriksen is finished, he has zero to offer in my opinion and relying on him even for the odd games is setting us up for failure.

Last season he looked like a 38yo Scholes off the ball. He’s usually pretty great for Denmark but in the Euros he was a non factor too despite being covered by multiple DMs and Denmark playing 3 CBs.

Most importantly with how irresponsible Ten Hag’s midfield setup is Eriksen would age another 3 years next season. Not even prime Kante can save him unfortunately.
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Agreed, and the main point here is that we really have zero midfielders who are capable of filling the #6 role, certainly with the kind of football EtH wants to play. All of the five we have really primarily offer different kinds of things as a #8 (or alternatively, as a #10). That includes Casemiro, who plainly needs to be sheltered to remain any sort of effective #6, which he won't be by EtH.

There's Amrabat, should they decide to keep him. But I remain unconvinced he's got the requisite level to play regularly in the PL.
 
Berbasbullet said:
Ugarte and De Ligt for 80-90m doesn’t seem bad business to me?
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Not if they become first XI fixtures on a team heading towards title competitiveness, no. It's more a question of how much they add than of how much they cost relative to their reputations. It's not enough that they improve the squad (in Ugartes position especially, that is a very low bar). If we end up looking for upgrades on them a couple of years down the road, then it will not have been good business.

I think that criterion applies to all signings we make at this stage, at least ones that has a cost as significant as that.
 
Ekeke said:
I mean... For 8th placed United yeah. But they would both be coming in as cast offs from PSG and Bayern so for 2 such players its no small amount... But I think they're a bit better than given credit for so I'd take it personally.
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Zola, Henry, Bergkamp, stam (to Lazio) and Pirlo were all cast offs at one point of their career
 
onemanarmy said:
De Bruyne and Salah at Chelsea, Robben, Eto'o at Real etc etc etc... Tons of examples.
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anyone who understands Italian should watch Bergkamp and Rush 'mai dire gol' bidoni (dust bin) videos. The level of insults thrown at them on the mainstream media if the time would get people banned if repeated on this forum
 
devilish said:
Zola, Henry, Bergkamp, stam (to Lazio) and Pirlo were all cast offs at one point of their career
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Sure, but there are plenty of others who were cast offs that still moved for a lot of money as these guys are and didnt do great

My point is that £90 million on 2 players that PSG and Bayern dont want is a lot of money. But given where we finished in the table we'd be lucky if they wanted to come here. We cant really expect to have the same standards as them until we get champions league football again
 
Ekeke said:
Sure, but there are plenty of others who were cast offs that still moved for a lot of money as these guys are and didnt do great

My point is that £90 million on 2 players that PSG and Bayern dont want is a lot of money. But given where we finished in the table we'd be lucky if they wanted to come here. We cant really expect to have the same standards as them until we get champions league football again
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Havertz, Jesus, Zinchenko were all "cast offs" too. If it improves our squad on the whole, I don't have much of an issue signing players like that right now - we're well below the quality of these these teams right now. I think we're in a better position than most, we're still massive wage paying, big exposure and still win cups. There's pretty much no other team that could offer that, with the very obvious potential of getting back into the CL.
 
Reiver said:
You're right. De Ligt coming across as a poor man's William Prunier in his transfer thread.
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Yeah, so weird. They've made him seem like he's slower than Maguire :/.

But this isn't the De Ligt thread so.

Would love both of these players, great, great players that will only strengthen our squad and XI imo.
 
Will he be fit or Sunday Morning's Copa America Quarter final against Brazil? would be good to get a look at him in such a big match.
 
wildflower2007 said:
Haven't seen much of this guy, any good?

What are our actual chances of getting him?
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He's a good player who offers something we currently don't have and improves the current United squad. A floor-raiser option IMO but possibly with a limited ceiling, but that doesn't make it a bad signing. It just means that he probably isn't good enough to be a nailed-on starter for a team that's seriously competing for the PL and CL every season, but that should be 2-3 years away at least, and he's probably going to be at least good enough to be a squad player in a team like that.

He's also someone who IMO cannot play a single-pivot #6 in a 4-3-3 setup, at least not yet, so he will probably be paired in a double pivot with Mainoo, more likely in a 4-2-3-1.

It should be a pretty straightforward deal if we do actually seriously want him. It's been reported that he's open to the idea of joining United, and PSG are willing to let him go.

They also bought him for 51m last summer and he hasn't exactly been one of the first names on the team sheet for PSG, so I don't see why people earlier thought my suggestion of not paying more than 35-40m for him was unrealistic. Seems like the club have a similar valuation in mind as well.
 
Ekeke said:
Sure, but there are plenty of others who were cast offs that still moved for a lot of money as these guys are and didnt do great

My point is that £90 million on 2 players that PSG and Bayern dont want is a lot of money. But given where we finished in the table we'd be lucky if they wanted to come here. We cant really expect to have the same standards as them until we get champions league football again
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That's why you have to understand why a player had failed elsewhere and whether he's got the characteristics to play in the position you need him to play in and how the balance within the team is reached. In Ugarte's case its down to Enriquez wanting every player to be a Pirlo. Its the tiki taka line of school of thought that makes these managers great when they are given blank cheques year in year out but will feck them over when they go and manage a Roma for example. In terms of United Ugarte's superb work rate and his humility to play it safe would fit us as a glove. He'll add much added steel in that weak midfield which in turn will allow Mainoo and Bruno to shine. I am more concerned about De Ligt TBH. But that's for another thread.
 
Betson said:
Will he be fit or Sunday Morning's Copa America Quarter final against Brazil? would be good to get a look at him in such a big match.
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Here’s me thinking by Sunday Morning you mean a 8/9am treat to start the day.

2:00am?! Yeah keep me posted.
 
devilish said:
That's why you have to understand why a player had failed elsewhere and whether he's got the characteristics to play in the position you need him to play in and how the balance within the team is reached. In Ugarte's case its down to Enriquez wanting every player to be a Pirlo. Its the tiki taka line of school of thought that makes these managers great when they are given blank cheques year in year out but will feck them over when they go and manage a Roma for example. In terms of United Ugarte's superb work rate and his humility to play it safe would fit us as a glove. He'll add much added steel in that weak midfield which in turn will allow Mainoo and Bruno to shine. I am more concerned about De Ligt TBH. But that's for another thread.
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I dont disagree but you and I both know these forums will have lots of posters saying he isnt good enough on the ball and same within the crowd. We've seen it with Ander and other hard working ball winning players such as AWB
 
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