Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement

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Adnan said:
Below are his low lights against Milan and Newcastle where he struggled.
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Some of the things you said regarding playing for a ball possession type of football might be true but previous to PSG he played good Champions League matches against Spurs, in Frankfurt and on the Europa League against Arsenal he did ok.

He certainly isn’t a gifted technical player but Ajax Ten Haag also had Alvarez type in midfield.

Can’t say he unfairly lost his place on the first 11 under Luis Enrique if we compare it to Fabian Ruiz or Vitinha, but I might be wrong but remember him playing well in Buenos Aires under Bielsa vs Argentina where Uruguay won.

I mean Bruno Guimarães also looks great for Newcastle and he certainly doesn’t have great games for Brazil.

It will always depend on what Ten Haag pretends from a player on that position, reason why I mentioned Alvarez at Ajax.

If it was an option to buy without being mandatory worse things happened recently at United, now if the profile wanted is a technically gifted player with the ball Ugarte doesn’t fit that profile.

He isn’t as strong defensively as a Palhinha type but depending on how Ten Haag wants to play he can do his job.

I mean he did played on a 343 under Amorim where he played on a duo in midfield so he did had to cover more space than in a midfield trio, but obviously if you’re at PSG and your midfielders have the Verrati profile or Fabian and Vitinha then he looks out of place for that type of football.

More than what I think is what Ten Haag wants in that role, @antohan probably has been watching Uruguay recently, but I have the impression he isn’t playing with the same levels of confidence I saw him playing in Buenos Aires previously.

By the way, he also had a good performance vs Juventus in the second leg of the Europa League, 20th April 2023, again more than having good or bad performances what matters is what Ten Haag pretends from a player on that function.

If it’s for Spanish possession football forget it, would never work.

Going to shut up because football isn’t science, what works in certain context might fit in other, but I agree at this day having the option to do it maybe a loan with possible option to buy would be better.

Enough now…
 
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Adnan said:
He isn't that great defensively and will give alot of needless fouls away. And the reason I say he isn't that great defensively is because he doesn't have the legs to cover the space in quick transitions. I think we should target a better player than him and the highlights below shed some light on his limitations as a player.

Against Newcastle and Milan he struggled to contain their transitions and isn't anything special on the ball. I think this is a great deal for PSG, potentially. I don't have anything else to say about him and I just hope the Uruguyan David Batty surprises me if we sign him.

Below are his low lights against Milan and Newcastle where he struggled.

https://x.com/RegistaCall/status/1806789348286955733?t=_pTI7giRMosDeHa4hyw4cA&s=19

https://x.com/RegistaCall/status/1806710564082622780?t=FIBkWxT1KwsO444uWR96dA&s=19
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OK so who should we target for this midfield role?
 
Adnan said:
He isn't that great defensively and will give alot of needless fouls away. And the reason I say he isn't that great defensively is because he doesn't have the legs to cover the space in quick transitions. I think we should target a better player than him and the highlights below shed some light on his limitations as a player.

Against Newcastle and Milan he struggled to contain their transitions and isn't anything special on the ball. I think this is a great deal for PSG, potentially. I don't have anything else to say about him and I just hope the Uruguyan David Batty surprises me if we sign him.

Below are his low lights against Milan and Newcastle where he struggled.

https://x.com/RegistaCall/status/1806789348286955733?t=_pTI7giRMosDeHa4hyw4cA&s=19

https://x.com/RegistaCall/status/1806710564082622780?t=FIBkWxT1KwsO444uWR96dA&s=19
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Honestly not bad. You can see what he was going for most of the time and most of the time it was calculated risk-taking. You see the benefit you'd get from the movement he made and yeah sometimes it didn't work out but that's life. Very rarely did those "errors" result in dangerous situations for the opponent.

Only concern is the aerial duels and the technique on some of his more hopeful passes. An assured passer of the Matic mould would be nice but no players we're linked to are like that.
 
SCP said:
Some of the things you said regarding playing for a ball possession type of football might be true but previous to PSG he played good Champions League matches against Spurs, in Frankfurt and on the Europa League against Arsenal he did ok.

He certainly isn’t a gifted technical player but Ajax Ten Haag also had Alvarez type in midfield.

Can’t say he unfairly lost his place on the first 11 under Luis Enrique if we compare it to Fabian Ruiz or Vitinha, but I might be wrong but remember him playing well in Buenos Aires under Bielsa vs Argentina where Uruguay won.

I mean Bruno Guimarães also looks great for Newcastle and he certainly doesn’t have great games for Brazil.

It will always depend on what Ten Haag pretends from a player on that position, reason why I mentioned Alvarez at Ajax.

If it was an option to buy without being mandatory worse things happened recently at United, now if the profile wanted is a technically gifted player with the ball Ugarte doesn’t fit that profile.

He isn’t as strong defensively as a Palhinha type but depending on how Ten Haag wants to play he can do his job.

I mean he did played on a 343 under Amorim where he played on a duo in midfield so he did had to cover more space than in a midfield trio, but obviously if you’re at PSG and your midfielders have the Verrati profile or Fabian and Vitinha then he looks out of place for that type of football.

More than what I think is what Ten Haag wants in that role, @antohan probably has been watching Uruguay recently, but I have the impression he isn’t playing with the same levels of confidence I saw him playing in Buenos Aires previously.
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You make some good points and I agree with your assessment. But I think the difference between Amorim's approach compared to Luis Enrique is that Luis Enrique is more aggressive and wants his team to play higher up the pitch in comparison and Ugarte has been exposed in that system against high level pace and physicality in the Champions league.

As far as ten Hag is concerned, I've always been under the impression that he wants to play a more positional game in possession and he wants his team to play in the opponent's half. But I feel to do that we need to significantly raise the technical level on the ball, as well as contain transitions when a lot of the players are committed to the high press. I just feel we should target a different player to get the ball rolling or if we're to sign Ugarte then I hope we also sign another midfielder because otherwise I foresee problems. We're a very soft team at CB and deeper midfield and need to really look at those positions very very closely by looking all the details that are also required.
 
Adnan said:
You're making some very valid points and I do agree with what you're saying.

Apart from Bruno who shouldn't be relied upon for progressive passing in a deeper role, I agree the rest of the players will have to step up to the plate as far as exerting control in possession goes. Bruno is a player who occupies advance positions and he isn't suited to playing a deeper role to a high enough level in possession compared to the competition domestically that we're trying to close the gap to. The build up phase is absolutely crucial towards exerting control in possession and those players in deeper positions will also play a big role in thwarting transitions in a higher line which I believe is the aim for any team that wants to implement a more proactive game style.

So I do agree that we can offset Ugarte's limitations on the ball by raising the level elsewhere. So who that potential RCB is, will make a difference to how we exert control in possession imo. I don't think signing Ugarte and Branthwaite will move the needle as far as raising our ability on the ball compared to the competition we're trying to get close to. So for me signing a RCB with the physical, athletic and technical quality would be quite important. We don't want to get into a state where the opponent strategically blocks passing lanes towards Martinez and Mainoo which makes the opponent's press more effective. But if we have multiple weapons in the build up phase who have the ability to hurt the opponent in possession, the opponent's high pressure tactics will become ineffective.

As far as Alvarez is concerned during his time at Ajax, you're correct that he was a player that didn't suit the in-possession concepts of the team. But with Ajax at the time, their CBs and fullbacks contributed heavily towards controlling the game in possession with the fullbacks coming inside and Alvarez had a simple role in a lot of games where he would drop in between the CBs and would play simple passes either side to the CBs or to the GK behind him which offset his weaknesses in possession.
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Now that we’re strongly linked with de Ligt, is he the right RCB if Ugarte is our DM?

De ligt has good passing completion and progressive passes, is he a progressive passer type of player? He’s definitely nowhere near Martinez’s level as a progressive passer and ball playing ability, so is De Ligt’s passing ability enough if we have Ugarte as DM?

Onana
Dalot De Ligt Martinez Shaw
Bruno Ugarte Mainoo
 
Adnan said:
As far as ten Hag is concerned, I've always been under the impression that he wants to play a more positional game in possession and he wants his team to play in the opponent's half. But I feel to do that we need to significantly raise the technical level on the ball, as well as contain transitions when a lot of the players are committed to the high press. I just feel we should target a different player to get the ball rolling or if we're to sign Ugarte then I hope we also sign another midfielder because otherwise I foresee problems. We're a very soft team at CB and deeper midfield and need to really look at those positions very very closely by looking all the details that are also required.
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What do you say about ten Hag comment on the interview with Gary Neville when ten Hag said that Casemiro and FDJ would have been perfect combination in his team (assume he was talking about prime Casemiro). What do you think ten Hag was trying to build with Casemiro and FDJ in midfield?

Isn’t it Casemiro and FDJ look very identical to Ugarte and Mainoo? Ball winner + Roaming Playmaker. Do you even agree with ten Hag about the idea of Casemiro type of player and FDJ type of player. Or unless I’m missing something that I don’t know some aspects that Ugarte lacks but Casemiro has.
 
Adnan said:
You make some good points and I agree with your assessment. But I think the difference between Amorim's approach compared to Luis Enrique is that Luis Enrique is more aggressive and wants his team to play higher up the pitch in comparison and Ugarte has been exposed in that system against high level pace and physicality in the Champions league.

As far as ten Hag is concerned, I've always been under the impression that he wants to play a more positional game in possession and he wants his team to play in the opponent's half. But I feel to do that we need to significantly raise the technical level on the ball, as well as contain transitions when a lot of the players are committed to the high press. I just feel we should target a different player to get the ball rolling or if we're to sign Ugarte then I hope we also sign another midfielder because otherwise I foresee problems. We're a very soft team at CB and deeper midfield and need to really look at those positions very very closely by looking all the details that are also required.
Click to expand...
SCP said:
By the way, he also had a good performance vs Juventus in the second leg of the Europa League, 20th April 2023, again more than having good or bad performances what matters is what Ten Haag pretends from a player on that function.

If it’s for Spanish possession football forget it, would never work.

Going to shut up because football isn’t science, what works in certain context might fit in other, but I agree at this day having the option to do it maybe a loan with possible option to buy would be better.

Enough now…
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Added this to my post @Adnan , I agree with your reservations, if it was 1 season ago with the levels of confidence he had I would recommend because Ten Haag Ajax had an Alvarez type.

Now after a season where he lost his confidence at PSG where he understood he will never fit a possession type of high level football while he as a kid even studied the way Busquets played, probably his confidence is shot and United isn’t the most expansive football atmosphere in the planet for players without confidence at this day and age.

Reason why I mention this cannot be done without Ten Haag approval, if not it will be a waste of money. Now I am going to stop, football opinions aren’t science, players have to fit your style of playing and football culture.

For example I thought Palhinha would be doing great at the Euros and don’t know if it’s confidence, crap style of Martinez but he doesn’t impose himself.

Reason why I struggle to evaluate players based on National Football Teams or International Tournaments , James Rodriguez for Colombia looks Maradona and so on.
 
SCP said:
Added this to my post @Adnan , I agree with your reservations, if it was 1 season ago with the levels of confidence he had I would recommend because Ten Haag Ajax had an Alvarez type.

Now after a season where he lost his confidence at PSG where he understood he will never fit a possession type of high level football while he as a kid even studied the way Busquets played, probably his confidence is shot and United isn’t the most expansive football atmosphere in the planet for players without confidence at this day and age.

Reason why I mention this cannot be done without Ten Haag approval, if not it will be a waste of money. Now I am going to stop, football opinions aren’t science, players have to fit your style of playing and football culture.

For example I thought Palhinha would be doing great at the Euros and don’t know if it’s confidence, crap style of Martinez but he doesn’t impose himself.

Reason why I struggle to evaluate players based on National Football Teams or International Tournaments , James Rodriguez for Colombia looks Maradona and so on.
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Good post I can't really say I disagree with you. Let's hope for the best and see how things turn out.

I completely agree with you about International football. Different tactics and aims due to it being a knockout cup competition.
 
JE-365 said:
What do you say about ten Hag comment on the interview with Gary Neville when ten Hag said that Casemiro and FDJ would have been perfect combination in his team (assume he was talking about prime Casemiro). What do you think ten Hag was trying to build with Casemiro and FDJ in midfield?

Isn’t it Casemiro and FDJ look very identical to Ugarte and Mainoo? Ball winner + Roaming Playmaker. Do you even agree with ten Hag about the idea of Casemiro type of player and FDJ type of player. Or unless I’m missing something that I don’t know some aspects that Ugarte lacks but Casemiro has.
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Casemiro is a holding midfielder out of possession and de Jong is a first phase receiver in midfield in-possession. So it makes sense what ten Hag is saying.

Ugarte isn't a holding midfielder but rather he's someone who will hustle and harass the opponent by chasing the ball. I just think if we signed someone like Palhinha or even Wieffer, it would make more sense along with Ugarte, and I think we will end up signing two midfielders.
 
RuudTom83 said:
When you look at the balance of United's midfield currently it seems like he would offer something that is missing.
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In fairness - finding something our midfield is missing probably isn't too hard
 
Adnan said:
Casemiro is a holding midfielder out of possession and de Jong is a first phase receiver in midfield in-possession. So it makes sense what ten Hag is saying.

Ugarte isn't a holding midfielder but rather he's someone who will hustle and harass the opponent by chasing the ball. I just think if we signed someone like Palhinha or even Wieffer, it would make more sense along with Ugarte, and I think we will end up signing two midfielders.
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Can only see us signing two midfielders if we are looking to sell McTominay which doesn't seem to have any smoke whatsoever
 
MyOnlySolskjaer said:
Pretty encouraging heat map...

4.11 tackles per game, 7.67 duels won per 90, 91% passing accuracy - what's not to like.

1*YvLWMaV9wem1mYskdB7pNQ.jpeg
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Not fancy enough for those that think every player has to be technical. And to be fair it obviously helps in midfield where you are sure to be pressured on a loose touch. But there are midfielders who have done well and won things without being particularly technical players. There arent many technical midfielders who will show the same tenacity, determination, competitiveness and ball winning abilities and if any of them are around now, they arent interested in joining the 8th best team in the premier league.
 
croadyman said:
OK like who then?
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Mattheus Fernandes who was on loan at Estoril from Sporting last season perhaps. With the hype around Neves I dont see anything about him. 19 years old, 3.2 tackles per 90 mins and more technical than Ugarte. Looks to have a bit of speed, certainly more than Ugarte, can run with the ball and makes plenty of passes. Will Sporting let him go for a reasonable amount when he can play for them next season, get more exposure and they can probably sell him for more? Not sure. One of the Sporting fans could speak on it

Like Vitinha, Ugarte had one good season in Portugal before PSG signed him. Fernandes has had one on loan at Estoril rather than playing for Sporting.

 
Ekeke said:
Not fancy enough for those that think every player has to be technical. And to be fair it obviously helps in midfield where you are sure to be pressured on a loose touch. But there are midfielders who have done well and won things without being particularly technical players. There arent many technical midfielders who will show the same tenacity, determination, competitiveness and ball winning abilities and if any of them are around now, they arent interested in joining the 8th best team in the premier league.
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If you have a very limited DM you need highly technical players all around them to pick up the slack. We don’t have that. I fear another Casemiro (post winter last season onwards) situation that hampers our progress as a front foot team. Another season of ETH trying to work to our strengths would be a mistake. He needs to rip things up and start again (tactically).

If we’re in for this guy I hope he’s not a one note Awb type player.
 
I'd probably prefer someone technically a bit better on the ball, but then you see people genuinely wanting us to keep Amrabat around, and this fella is head and shoulders above him.
 
Hammondo said:
What? Every player needs to be press resistant.
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To different levels based on position.

Taking the ball in midfield with a player already behind you and making physical contact is a bit different to a CB who has a forward coming to press them a second after their first touch

Kante and Mascherano for example werent particularly gifted at avoiding pressing players
 
Judas said:
I'd probably prefer someone technically a bit better on the ball, but then you see people genuinely wanting us to keep Amrabat around, and this fella is head and shoulders above him.
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Would be nice if we had the budget to sign him and a player that is better technically too
 
In an ideal world we would sign him and Lucas Gourna-Douath (Salzburg), who is a complete DM talent with technique, physique and good on the ball skills, but lack experience to start for us yet, as his backup.
 
I'd take him. Realistically we'll need at least two in midfield but I'd be happy if Ugarte was one of them. I thought we could've gone in for him when he was leaving Sporting last summer.

The baseline is so low for holding midfielders in this team, we can't continue to play the likes of Eriksen and McTominay in that position. Casemiro and Amrabat were terrible last season as well. Signing a player of the right age profile and some of the attributes to play that position has to be an upgrade on what we have at the moment. Most importantly, it sounds like PSG are prepared to sell for a reasonable fee. We need to rebuild the team whilst undoing the habit of overspending on every player we sign.
 
He must really fail with the eye test because looking at his stats, you wouldn’t think he’s as poor, technically, as some are suggesting
​
 


available for a limited time, as Portuguese/French footage gets blocked.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
He must really fail with the eye test because looking at his stats, you wouldn’t think he’s as poor, technically, as some are suggesting
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Raees said:


available for a limited time, as Portuguese/French footage gets blocked.
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That's what I don't understand from some of the posters on here. He looks like a big upgrade on Casemiro and Amrabat on the ball, and more mobile and energetic off it. For the right fee he'd be a great addition considering where we are right now. We can always upgrade later on.

Honestly I don't get the hype around Joao Neves considering the fees touted and his role in our current first XI.. Got slagged off for saying I don't see that wonderkid special sauce in him before that recent Portugal match where he completely underwhelmed.
 
Bastian said:
I'm not so sure about that. Everyone being fit, this is the current XI with some blank spots:

---------------Onana
Dalot---RCB---Martinez--Shaw
------CDM--------Mainoo
?------------Bruno--------Garnacho
------------Rasmus

Work rate is not really a problem there. Antony obviously offers that, Amad may be progressing in that aspect too. There is no shirker there and there is no one ill-suited to ETH's style of play. But depth is a major issue. Most of the players who aren't suitable are in the last year of contract. If we aren't unrealistic with what we can get for them, we might clean the deck, as it were, ensuring that the squad overall is more suited to the kind of football Erik will have them playing (which he'll do regardless of whether or not they are capable of it).
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I should've made myself more clearer. When I said that most players don't fit what the coach wants them to do, I was referring to:
  • Maguire,
  • Eriksen(legs gone)
  • Wan Bissaka
  • McTominey
  • Lindelof
  • Malacia(fitness concern)
  • Casemiro as I don't think he can keep up with the pace this season
We are only 2 injuries away from being unable to play what the coach wants us to do. And this is if we bring the players we want for the positions you left vacant. We also have Evans on his last legs, and very young Kambwala.

That's 3 players for the starting 11, and another maybe 4 for depth? Uh, I wish we can pull this off, but I doubt it. Even Ratkliff himself said that we will need multiple windows to sort this out.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
He must really fail with the eye test because looking at his stats, you wouldn’t think he’s as poor, technically, as some are suggesting
​
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Yeah really don’t know who the fanbase thinks we can sign that would fit into this midfield perfectly
 
Weird how Neves wasn't good enough defensively, I'd say Ugarte was better than him defensively, but Ugarte aswell isn't good enough? I'm sure people read other posts and make their mind up without anything to back it up. People should consider looking at our team, look at the skill sets that would be around him and then make an informed opinion of whether or not he improves our TEAM. Not every player needs to be a superstar. Some are essential cogs in the machine.
 
Bastian said:
I'm not so sure about that. Everyone being fit, this is the current XI with some blank spots:

---------------Onana
Dalot---RCB---Martinez--Shaw
------CDM--------Mainoo
?------------Bruno--------Garnacho
------------Rasmus

Work rate is not really a problem there. Antony obviously offers that, Amad may be progressing in that aspect too. There is no shirker there and there is no one ill-suited to ETH's style of play. But depth is a major issue. Most of the players who aren't suitable are in the last year of contract. If we aren't unrealistic with what we can get for them, we might clean the deck, as it were, ensuring that the squad overall is more suited to the kind of football Erik will have them playing (which he'll do regardless of whether or not they are capable of it).
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Ideally with that team, I'm adding Bremer/Todibo, Ugarte/Weiffer, Amad/Eze (to play left sided while we have Rash to swap with on the left and Nacho who can play right wing)
 
Would take him without a doubt. Good age, competitive and fierce, like most Uruguayans, can run and tackle all day long. Has good experience overall and i think the exact type of signing we should make.

DM is a big weakness and i think he can fill that hole. We need more physical presence and someone winning balls. Yes he is not a playmaker type a la Rodri, but he makes up for it with other qualities essential for a DM and still looks good enough technically/passing wise. Looks like one of the best candidates we could sign this summer for the DM position, especially under ETH, as we arent moving to a tiki taka side anytime soon.
 
antohan said:
He keeps it simple, yes, but generally has a great awareness and sense of timing which is an essential quality for a player dictating the tempo of a game. Nobody is asking him to do that, but I don't think it's beyond him. I'm not talking a ball-spraying Pirlo, but could develop into someone like Deschamps.

As it is, he has been exploited as a harrier and ball winner covering every blade of grass. We could use that and, as I said earlier in this thread, if we want to try Mainoo in a double pivot and give him a shot at developing the defensive side of his game you need someone like Ugarte next to him.

I would feel quite confident with a starting midfield with those three, rotating between double and single pivot subject to opposition.

Just get it done and move on to RCB targets.
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That's my perception of him as well. Thanks for the review
 
izec said:
Would take him without a doubt. Good age, competitive and fierce, like most Uruguayans, can run and tackle all day long. Has good experience overall and i think the exact type of signing we should make.

DM is a big weakness and i think he can fill that hole. We need more physical presence and someone winning balls. Yes he is not a playmaker type a la Rodri, but he makes up for it with other qualities essential for a DM and still looks good enough technically/passing wise. Looks like one of the best candidates we could sign this summer for the DM position, especially under ETH, as we arent moving to a tiki taka side anytime soon.
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Exactly and who exactly is available that fits the deep lying playmaker profile many feel is important
 
bosnian_red said:
Nobody can make that system work. He'll make changes to it for sure, he already did by the end of last season. On paper, Ugarte, Mainoo and Bruno should make a good midfield that shouldn't be lacking defensively. Mainoo and Bruno do fine for their roles defensively and both work hard, Ugarte is very strong defensively. My main concern for that trio (assuming the coaching improves) would be some passing range. But lisandro Martinez has that, mainoo cam develop more to open the pitch more, and Bruno can drop deep and provide that so it's fine.
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Yeah I didn't feel like saying that again after moaning for the entire last season about it :lol:

My main concern is probably that Ugarte isn't some athletic beast, he's more of a terrier type that wins through pure engine and harassing the ball. Which is fine, but in front of Martinez and with Bruno and Mainoo ahead it's not raising the athletic floor of the team much. And if we also are starting De Ligt? Yikes.

People shit on Onana because of how raw he is but I wanted him because he instantly makes us far more physically imposing, especially if we are relying so much on winning 50/50 battles and man marking
 
More South Americans the better, I want a team of passionate players that will leave it all out on the pitch.
 
Ekeke said:
To different levels based on position.

Taking the ball in midfield with a player already behind you and making physical contact is a bit different to a CB who has a forward coming to press them a second after their first touch

Kante and Mascherano for example werent particularly gifted at avoiding pressing players
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Mascherano I agree, but I do vageuly recall Kante coping well with being pressed since his teams often sat deep so when he got on the ball he was pressed simply because the other team had virtually all their players in the attacking half. I remember watching some City-Chelsea game and thinking our midfielders couldn't cope on the ball nearly as well as Kante under insane pressure when Chelsea tried to play out, and I think it was him and Kovacic, though I feel like City won the game.
 
We're losing 3 midfielders in Casemiro, Eriksen and Amrabat. We need more than 1 midfield signing honestly.
 
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