Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement

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It’s not the same formation we are using right now.

Bruno
Rashford - Mount - Amad
Mainoo - Casemeiro

That’s not the same formation as you’ve listed.
I didn’t list the formation, but the poster who did specified Bruno would be a false nine. What’s the real difference?
 
Hardly any top teams are playing with three out and out central midfielders nowadays. There’s almost no creativity in that team. You’re relying on Garnacho to beat a man.
Which ones don't?
 
I didn’t list the formation, but the poster who did specified Bruno would be a false nine. What’s the real difference?
Playing a 4-1-2-1-2 diamond is vastly different from playing with two wingers in a 4-2-3-1 system.
 
I see no reason why that lineup would have to play possession football, though.
None of them have pace. They can’t stretch the play cause they aren’t wingers, which means they have to play possession based football to keep the ball and play 1-2s to move the ball forward.
 
Which ones don't?
Majority of teams actually do, I have no clue what he’s talking about
I’m assuming you’re classing KDB, Odegaard, Szoboszlai, Maddison as out and out midfielders? They’re all attacking midfielders who are now playing as 8s because of the way football has changed. At the start of their careers, Maddison, KDB and Odegaard were played at 10 in a 4231. If you look at the post I replied to, he was suggesting dropping Bruno (who is similar to all the players mentioned above) and playing without an attacking midfielder.

They're all very different players to Ugarte, Casemiro and Mainoo. Far more creative, play higher up the pitch and get more goals and assists.

Liverpool under Klopp you could argue were similar but Wijnaldum and Fabinho were probably better on the ball than Casemiro/Urgate. And it’s undeniable that they had a far bigger goal threat in their front three, as well as more threat from full back.
 
I’m assuming you’re classing KDB, Odegaard, Szoboszlai, Maddison as out and out midfielders? They’re all attacking midfielders who are now playing as 8s because of the way football has changed. At the start of their careers, Maddison, KDB and Odegaard were played at 10 in a 4231. If you look at the post I replied to, he was suggesting dropping Bruno (who is similar to all the players mentioned above) and playing without an attacking midfielder.

They're all very different players to Ugarte, Casemiro and Mainoo. Far more creative, play higher up the pitch and get more goals and assists.

Liverpool under Klopp you could argue were similar but Wijnaldum and Fabinho were probably better on the ball than Casemiro/Urgate. And it’s undeniable that they had a far bigger goal threat in their front three, as well as more threat from full back.
I mean an attacking midfielder is a “midfielder” just like Ugarte and Casemiro are “defensive midfielders”.

Where players were played at different points in their careers is irrelevant. Bruno has played on the wing plenty of times for both us and Portugal, but if he suddenly was put into a DLP style 6 role you wouldn’t say “why aren’t we playing with another midfielder instead of a winger there?”

Now obviously if your argument is “Mainoo/Case/Ugarte isn’t creative enough as a midfield” then that’s a different discussion and a point I’d agree with most likely. But saying “no top team plays with 3 midfielders because you don’t want to classify any former 10’s as midfielders is strange.
 
None of them have pace. They can’t stretch the play cause they aren’t wingers, which means they have to play possession based football to keep the ball and play 1-2s to move the ball forward.
Again, though, we have been playing with Bruno as a false nine and two players with pace in the lineup, which is no different personnel wise. I’m struggling to see your point.
 
Again, though, we have been playing with Bruno as a false nine and two players with pace in the lineup, which is no different personnel wise. I’m struggling to see your point.
Not sure what’s the struggle to identify the difference between the diamond formation and the 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 system.
 
Not sure what’s the struggle to identify the difference between the diamond formation and the 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 system.
I’m struggling to understand why the same eleven players could play a non ‘possession’ orientated approach, just because of how their names are written down on the team sheet.
 
I suspect we’ll see a fair amount of rotation between Mainoo, Casemiro and Ugarte.

The more interesting question is once we’re done with this false 9 experiment where Mount fits in. He’s been praised for his pressing…does he steal a wide role off of either Rashford, who’s been horrific, or Amad?
I agree; we’re gonna be playing a lot of Thursday/Sunday weeks and neither Casemiro or Mainoo look capable of playing more than an hour or so effectively.
 
His medical, must be a really in depth one? Been going in for a couple of days now. Maybe Ten Hag compares all the results with Mctominays, since he wanted to keep him and not signing Ugarte...
 
His medical, must be a really in depth one? Been going in for a couple of days now. Maybe Ten Hag compares all the results with Mctominays, since he wanted to keep him and not signing Ugarte...

He only got here late last night, it’ll be announced later today.
 
I mean an attacking midfielder is a “midfielder” just like Ugarte and Casemiro are “defensive midfielders”.

Where players were played at different points in their careers is irrelevant. Bruno has played on the wing plenty of times for both us and Portugal, but if he suddenly was put into a DLP style 6 role you wouldn’t say “why aren’t we playing with another midfielder instead of a winger there?”

Now obviously if your argument is “Mainoo/Case/Ugarte isn’t creative enough as a midfield” then that’s a different discussion and a point I’d agree with most likely. But saying “no top team plays with 3 midfielders because you don’t want to classify any former 10’s as midfielders is strange.
So you’re splitting hairs and admit that my post about not having enough creativity is correct. Okay.

Everyone has their own terms for how they talk about football. A “proper central” midfielder for me is a Keane/Robson who can do everything. I don’t talk about attacking mids like KDB as central midfielders, but that’s probably my age.

Either way, I can’t think of any top teams that play with two ball winning midfielders and I’m not even sure sure how to classify Kobbie yet, but he’s not an attacking midfielder in the mould of KDB/Odegaard etc.
 
Except we are not going to become a possession based team overnight. ETH relies on counters and stretching play on the wings.

But would it not be possible with 2 fast forwards? In certain games
 
This. PLEASE!

All this formation theory is starting to make me yearn for the halcyon days of clumsy statistical analysis.

I will definitely miss the ‘ you got to’ puns though, life affirming
They've taken me from being pretty in favour of this transfer to really quite concerned for the future.
 
With such a long build-up and announcement delay we better get a tap dancing announcement video.
 
I’m assuming you’re classing KDB, Odegaard, Szoboszlai, Maddison as out and out midfielders? They’re all attacking midfielders who are now playing as 8s because of the way football has changed. At the start of their careers, Maddison, KDB and Odegaard were played at 10 in a 4231. If you look at the post I replied to, he was suggesting dropping Bruno (who is similar to all the players mentioned above) and playing without an attacking midfielder.

They're all very different players to Ugarte, Casemiro and Mainoo. Far more creative, play higher up the pitch and get more goals and assists.

Liverpool under Klopp you could argue were similar but Wijnaldum and Fabinho were probably better on the ball than Casemiro/Urgate. And it’s undeniable that they had a far bigger goal threat in their front three, as well as more threat from full back.
But none of them do as little work to controlling the game as Bruno. Having an 8 who's very creative is normal, having one that is just creative doesn't happen because control is very important.
 
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