Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement

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Highfather_24 said:
Calling anyone who is not confident about a signing a "hater", is so childish, kinda pathetic :lol:

More so when we have a track record of signing players like Mount, Antony, Casemiro, Sancho etc, its not like we have a flawless record on transfers..were people who doubted those transfers haters too? Do you need to blindly support every decision United makes to be a top red?

Also makes zero sense. Someone who doesnt rate Ugarte would be hoping we dont spend too much money on him.

Edit : wait arent you the guy who had a major metldown when FdJ deal collapsed? Now its starting to make sense
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You know we have actual top football people doing our business now with a clear project going as opposed to Glazers, right?

They have targeted him for a reason. They are excellent at their job, so why are you questioning it so much? Wouldn't it be better to wait and see how he plays for us before spouting out this negativity for the past two months?
 
Highfather_24 said:
What I dont get is ETH is focussed on getting players who are great in possesion for the backline(Onana, Martinez, Mazraoui, De Ligt), but then in midfield he tries to build a team that is based on transition football(Casemiro, Ugarte, Mount).

If ETH's basketball tactics dont work out, and we get a manager who wants to keep the ball, what happens to players like Ugarte and Mount(not even counting Casemiro and Bruno) and the millions we have spent on them? Do we go into another 3 year rebuild, rinse and repeat?

I feel a lot of people think buying a pure defense focussed DM will fix the tactical issues Ten Hag has brought on with leaving massive gaps in midfield. That might end up not happening, and then Ten Hag gets sacked, and we are stuck with a #6 we just bought on a massive fee, who has big question marks on the ball.

This is why you should target players who are well rounded and have both physical and technical abilities, and are good both on and off the ball, not limited players. I'm worried about the present and future of our midfield, 200M+ spent on it, and still feels like it needs a total overhaul.
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From the stats and the highlights I've seen, I would think Ugarte would be fine in a more possession-focused style. Maybe not quite to the extent that someone like Pep would demand, but you don't need all three midfielders to be amazing on the ball to control and dominate against the vast majority of teams.

However the other two midfielders would have to be more controlling than what we currently have. Having Bruno and Ugarte as two of the midfielders probably wouldn't work in a team that wants to dominate. It'd likely end up having to be Mainoo pushed further forward, with Ugarte partnering somebody who is more of a deeper playmaker. Where Bruno fits in though, who knows.

With the players that he's buying, it seems like ETH wants to play like Liverpool did under Klopp five or so years ago. The midfield is the more hard-working, hard-pressing group of players, while the defence and attackers bring more of the creativity and control. Mainoo is a bit of the odd one out there, plus we also need the Henderson role filled (who was decent as the deeper playmaker even though he wasn't world-class at it). But it's that style that Ugarte and likely Mount would have fit in perfectly.
 
Highfather_24 said:
I wouldnt call him bad on the ball, rather safe and limited. None of those players I mentioned are "elite", but like I said I would rather than well rounded players who are solid 8s at most things, rather than players who are more specialised and have obvious flaws.

AWB was "elite" at tackling, but I would take steady Mazraoui over him anyday.
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But the players you mentioned in your earlier post are also not elite and even below average in areas like passing, none of the ones you mentioned has better passing stats than Ugarte aside from Neves, be it completion stats or passing distance or key passes or chance creation, Onana is a physical beast, Mainoo is a superb ball carrier, not sure what to say about Lavia, but Ugarte is excellent in interception and tackles, each has an area they are the best in but they are limited in other areas and your analogy on the difference between AWB & Mazraoui does not apply since AWB was very limited in many areas and only excelled in last ditch on the ground tackles.
 
Grand Vizier said:
They are excellent at their job, so why are you questioning it so much? Wouldn't it be better to wait and see how he plays for us before spouting out this negativity for the past two months?
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Yeah sure, I tend not have blind faith, I'll see it before believing.
MadDogg said:
From the stats and the highlights I've seen, I would think Ugarte would be fine in a more possession-focused style. Maybe not quite to the extent that someone like Pep would demand, but you don't need all three midfielders to be amazing on the ball to control and dominate against the vast majority of teams.
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I agree with the rest of our post, and like you said, there's a profile mismatch with the type of football we wanna play. But PSG binning him because he doesnt fit Enrique's possession style does say something. But I dont think ETH even wants that, so we are good on that front I guess(until ETH is sacked)
 
saivet said:
The lower price was inevitable. The guys isn't even wanted by PSG. Let's hope he's a good signing for us. I don't know much about him but from what I've read/heard it's the right profile of signing we could do with (although his ability on the ball is under question) but a big upgrade squad wise, with McT leaving.
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what I expected as well, €52m is an excellent transfer fee recoup for PSG as they paid €60 only last summer, and a good deal for us (below £45m).
 
Highfather_24 said:
Calling anyone who is not confident about a signing a "hater", is so childish, kinda pathetic :lol:

More so when we have a track record of signing players like Mount, Antony, Casemiro, Sancho etc, its not like we have a flawless record on transfers..were people who doubted those transfers haters too? Do you need to blindly support every decision United makes to be a top red?

Also makes zero sense. Someone who doesnt rate Ugarte would be hoping we dont spend too much money on him.

Edit : wait arent you the guy who had a major metldown when FdJ deal collapsed? Now its starting to make sense
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So none of the players you mentioned were signed under INEOS..

What’s your point if it’s based on that?
 
Judas said:
Then why are you taking such a negative slant more often than not? Surely more healthy to be a bit more hopeful and positive?
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Maybe we should get out the amortization analysis sheet again to lift everyone’s spirit. Or a thorough stats analysis with web graphs.
 
I think PSR is helping to control the market and cap the insane fees we were seeing, but there’s no doubt us being run by competent people helps too. £42m is sensible.
 
OmarUnited4ever said:
Is he really that bad on the ball?

from the players you mentioned, only J.Neves is the elite one so far based on his stats last season, Mainoo & Lavia are young themselves but not elite yet, and Onana is good but again not an elite DM/CM himself, Ugarte is closer to being above average to decent on the ball and is excellent defensively, I do not think he is as bad as McTominay or inconsistent as Fred, he passes safely most of time and keeps it ticking.
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He's not that bad. But he's not better than decent. I've seen his every match with PSG and he looked pretty damn good there for the first few months. But as time went it became more apparent that his on ball abilities weren't up to the system's standards. But that's a bit of an extreme case because Enrique's PSG does like a million short passes during the game and you have to be better than decent (the likes of Fabian Ruiz barely fit in) to make it.

But he does seem to be aware of his limitations, so he plays a simple brand of football. Hence the high percentages in accuracy. He'll tackle (not the cleanest of tacklers and can be reckless) and provide your midfield with grit and resilience.
That gesture he did against Argentina and Messi's "war boys" made me a fan for life.
 
rainey said:
He's not that bad. But he's not better than decent. I've seen his every match with PSG and he looked pretty damn good there for the first few months. But as time went it became more apparent that his on ball abilities weren't up to the system's standards. But that's a bit of an extreme case because Enrique's PSG does like a million short passes during the game and you have to be better than decent (the likes of Fabian Ruiz barely fit in) to make it.

But he does seem to be aware of his limitations, so he plays a simple brand of football. Hence the high percentages in accuracy. He'll tackle (not the cleanest of tacklers and can be reckless) and provide your midfield with grit and resilience.
That gesture he did against Argentina and Messi's "war boys" made me a fan for life.
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your description in the bolded is what I also think as well, we struggled with players like Fred & McTominay who messed up simple 5 yards passes, Casemiro also is somewhat erratic with his passing, Mainoo is a safe passer, and if Ugarte is a safe passer too then at least we will be able to string few passes togther as a team, without conceding possession because someone can't make a simple 5 yards pass.
 
Berbaclass said:
In all fairness, it's been a relatively tame window for the whole of Europe in general.
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Yeah I’ll be interested to see the total spent at the end of the window. It’s been going up every year, the PL alone has frequently spent over a billion. But now PSR has got everyone shitting their kecks.
 
Excited to get this done, but probably too soon to impact v Liverpool unfortunately. This is the sort of signing that makes conceding goals like the ones v Brighton less likely.
 
TheReligion said:
So none of the players you mentioned were signed under INEOS..
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INEOS folks are humans too, they will also make mistakes in the market, everyone does, and are not gonna be perfect, its wild to even expect that. All we can hope for is a better success rate than the old era.

Judas said:
Then why are you taking such a negative slant more often than not? Surely more healthy to be a bit more hopeful and positive?
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Ugarte is the only signing I have been against for footballing reasons. I've explained many times why, and I would be the happiest guy if I'm wrong(I was wrong about Amrabat being a good signing, like most of us here). Commercially in terms of negotiation I think we've done well, if we manage to get the Ugarte/Mctominay deals over the line on the current rumoured terms.

If you see me being negative, understand its only because I dont want us to get battered on matchday and hear bullshit from rival fans. Not because I have any agenda against any player/coach.
 
Rasmus_9 said:
I’m really shocked at some of the takes on here regarding Ugarte. As someone that has watched him a load of times for Sporting, the player described above is not the one I remember.

Yes Ugarte’s main appeal and strength is his fitness levels and ability to cover ground. He times tackles amazingly well and is a great disrupter and presser. However he most definitely is not poor in possession. The Ugarte I watched was a player with fabulous technique able to wriggle out of tight spots- very press resistant. He also has really good expansive passes. He’s able to switch the play with beautiful long balls finding players in space. The other thing I really liked about him was his ability to drive forwards into space- taking out three or four players with his pace.

Ugarte is 100% the player United need and I am delighted we’ve gone for him!
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We've seen too many times what happens when a player goes from Portugal, to a major league, like Premier League, or La Liga. For a lot of players, it's just too steep of a jump. I'm not sure if the system was not right for him in PSG or he was simply not in form, but he looked all over the place in some of the Champion League games, like Newcastle and AC Milan.

With that being said, I hope from the bottom of my heart that you are right.
 
Vidooq said:
. I'm not sure if the system was not right for him in PSG or he was simply not in form, but he looked all over the place in some of the Champion League games, like Newcastle and AC Milan.
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Is this what you got from reading this thread? Or is this the only time you’ve watched him play?
 
Highfather_24 said:
INEOS folks are humans too, they will also make mistakes in the market, everyone does, and are not gonna be perfect, its wild to even expect that. All we can hope for is a better success rate than the old era.


Ugarte is the only signing I have been against for footballing reasons. I've explained many times why, and I would be the happiest guy if I'm wrong(I was wrong about Amrabat being a good signing, like most of us here). Commercially in terms of negotiation I think we've done well, if we manage to get the Ugarte/Mctominay deals over the line on the current rumoured terms.

If you see me being negative, understand its only because I dont want us to get battered on matchday and hear bullshit from rival fans. Not because I have any agenda against any player/coach.
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Of course they are human but you are using the past to suggest the current is wrong.

Surely you see that’s disingenuous to say the least and you have to judge INEOS on what they do rather than what the club has done in the past under poor leadership?

It makes no sense
 
Vault Dweller said:
Looking back at videos and games when he played for Sporting, if that's the guy we are getting I'm really looking forward to this signing. Just need to see.
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I think people are so burnt by those videos from the PSG games against Newcastle and Milan they now see him as some average midfielder
 
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