Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement

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lex talionis said:
It’s my understanding that we have other targets in queue. Maybe that’s real, maybe not, but if we’re betting it all on Ugarte and PSG break us we’re setting ourselves up to the United tax again and again.
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I wouldn't make it all so binary. Some deals you may have to pay more than you wanted, others not...

The crux of it really should be getting the right players in and building a competitive side.

Our problem certainly isn't paying a United tax on a player that happens to be owned by a club with a bottomless pit of money.

Our problem is spunking even more than that on Antony, supposedly buying Mount as a #8, offering crazy wages to get players to want to move to us, etc.

Licha's fee raised a few eyebrows at the time. More so because (whatshisnamewgojoinedArse) was our original target. Do we care now? Nah, we couldn't care less. Not one bit.

I'll judge these guys on getting the right transfers over the line and the team making progress, not 5-10M more or less on a deal.

That includes getting a DLP eventually. I doubt there's anyone out there who disagrees with us needing one. It's just not Ugarte.

Red00012 said:
Just seen all of Michael Carrick’s goals on MUTV earlier . He was severely underestimated, he’d walk on this team now
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Of course he would. Most of that side would walk into this team.
 
croadyman said:
I still feel he will be, however I can also understand where people are coming from when they say we need a ball playing midfielder too
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That we need, let's not kid ourselves but I think the direction we are taking for the time being is what Liverpool did circa 2018-21 before they morphed into a possession side. A super pressing side that generates chances from winning the ball high, that seems to be his overarching vision here. Ugarte will help this and we could see Mainoo sitting as the anchor and the former joining the counter press.
 
Judas said:
PSG were dog shit all over the pitch in those games, in fairness. Especially the Newcastle one, which was just a tragic little performance.
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Mmh, they were dogshit in newcastle, otherwise not so much. They were decent both games against milan -the first one they won easily- and they took Newcastle apart at home, just an utterly ridiculous case of horrifying finishing. Not that it changes much anyways, as 4 games is far too small a sample to just decide a player can't cut it for you. Luis Enrique is crazy and PSG are a clown show with infinite money and zero sense, and for all the madness Lucho *is* a very good manager in the end
 
If he is our final signing of the window, I'm not that arsed if we over pay. We've wanted him all window too, so it would be silly to lose out on a player we think will improve us, just to save face. The alternatives seemed to be Berge and then Amrabaat, which leaves just Amrabaat - I know who I'd prefer even with a £40m price difference.
 
Realistically Ugarte will be required to have a chance of top four so they need to get on with it. Casemiro will run out of gas by mid September.
 
glazed said:
Realistically Ugarte will be required to have a chance of top four so they need to get on with it. Casemiro will run out of gas by mid September.
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He’s looking pretty fit so I’d say more like November but your point still very much stand's
 
lex talionis said:
It’s my understanding that we have other targets in queue. Maybe that’s real, maybe not, but if we’re betting it all on Ugarte and PSG break us we’re setting ourselves up to the United tax again and again.
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Ederson (Atalanta) allegedly.

One week left after tomorrow.

Journalists saying PSG playing hard ball as Qatar still p!ssed at Jim. There’s a part of me that wants us to get another target (if similar ability/fit) just to p!ss them off more
 
Suv666 said:
Jesus Christ

This PSR shit has made the caf accountant land.
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Was just thinking the same today :lol: Amortization cafe

antohan said:
For those bored of reading the same stories and stats, you should read this article using Google's translation. Walks you through his background and evolution as a player.

What I found most remarkable was a story showing that despite having his first team debut aged 15 and getting called up to train with Uruguay's U20 aged 16, he didn't let it get to his head but very much the opposite.

After the first training session alongside the older kids (who went on to win the U20 South American championship), he went up to his dad and told him:
  1. He didn't even touch the ball
  2. His daily morning training with the experienced and seasoned professional club seniors wasn't enough
  3. He needed to move up a level or he wouldn't make it as a pro, so
  4. He had made arrangements with one of the NT fitness coaches (all by himself, aged 16) to go to the athletics course were he worked and get better conditioning.
  5. His dad would pick him up from training at noon, he would eat a packed lunch in the car and do physical training 1-5pm.
"How often?", his dad asked. "Every day". And no, his parents didn't let him skip college, he just skipped classes and studied for exams on his own after 6pm.

That's the sort of attitude and single bloody mindedness I want at the club.
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Great story. Yeah, we miss that sort of attitude in the locker room.
 
Alemar said:
Beast mode of Casemiro is difficult to bench. Easier to bench another midfielder and play a double pivot
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It doesn’t matter how much of a beast mode Case is in. He is older and slower than he was when he first joined so he will get found out in games. We can lessen that by playing Ugarte.
 
He will be ours, will learn from Casemiro (one of the best 5s in history), and will make his own our CDM poairion for years to come.
 
I have accepted the best we can hope for is he's in the stands for scousers next Sunday, if this goes beyond Tuesday then wouldn't have time to train with team anyway so may as well go to deadline if it meant better deal.
 
Highfather_24 said:
I think we are gonna struggle this season to control games, particularly when we need to keep the ball. Casemiro, Mount, Bruno, Ugarte they are all quick releasers of the ball, they get the ball and ping a pass as quickly as they can. That's gonna be problematic.

Our midfield lacks what the spanish call "La Pausa'.

ETH has spent over 200M on our midfield(including Ugarte). If our midfield is still shit after this, its on him.
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Funnily enough, that's what ten Hag wants.
 
Pretty strange to me to read here that Ugarte could replace Casemiro. Casemiro (his good version) can play as a real 6, he has the passing range and the proper postionning. Ugarte cannot in high level football in my opinion. He's far more a poor man's Kante and a real liabilty with the ball under pressure. That being said, if you're trying to build a high pressing team, he can be your guy but that's a very different gameplan. He also seems like a great bloke.

I really liked his personnality. The player not so much (outside of 5 or 6 really good game that made me think he was maybe more than what I saw when he was at Sporting CP, but it seems that he might have overperformed when he arrived at PSG).
 
Oly Francis said:
Pretty strange to me to read here that Ugarte could replace Casemiro. Casemiro (his good version) can play as a real 6, he has the passing range and the proper postionning. Ugarte cannot in high level football in my opinion. He's far more a poor man's Kante and a real liabilty with the ball under pressure. That being said, if you're trying to build a high pressing team, he can be your guy but that's a very different gameplan. He also seems like a great bloke.

I really liked his personnality. The player not so much (outside of 5 or 6 really good game that made me think he was maybe more than what I saw when he was at Sporting CP, but it seems that he might have overperformed when he arrived at PSG).
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When do you see this getting over the line as he has been left out of your last two league games
 
croadyman said:
When do you see this getting over the line as he has been left out of your last two league games
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In all fairness I have no idea. The rumors here is that it's a matter of a couple of days so i wouldn't be surprised to hear news by the end of the week end. Everybody knows Enrique doesn't want him, he's the opposite of what he excpects from a DM so I don't see this deal failing but what do I know.
 
Oly Francis said:
Pretty strange to me to read here that Ugarte could replace Casemiro. Casemiro (his good version) can play as a real 6, he has the passing range and the proper postionning. Ugarte cannot in high level football in my opinion. He's far more a poor man's Kante and a real liabilty with the ball under pressure. That being said, if you're trying to build a high pressing team, he can be your guy but that's a very different gameplan. He also seems like a great bloke.

I really liked his personnality. The player not so much (outside of 5 or 6 really good game that made me think he was maybe more than what I saw when he was at Sporting CP, but it seems that he might have overperformed when he arrived at PSG).
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Didn't you play him as a single pivot, though? If so, it's clear he's not the type to dictate play from deep. Even Casemiro doesn't do that; at Madrid, it was Kroos who handled that role. Ten Hag also assigned Eriksen that responsibility in his first season, and it worked relatively well.

To get the best out of Ugarte—or any player of that type—you need someone alongside them who can build from the back. For us, that player is likely Mainoo, with Eriksen as backup.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Didn't you play him as a single pivot, though? If so, it's clear he's not the type to dictate play from deep. Even Casemiro doesn't do that; at Madrid, it was Kroos who handled that role. Ten Hag also assigned Eriksen that responsibility in his first season, and it worked relatively well.

To get the best out of Ugarte—or any player of that type—you need someone alongside them who can build from the back. For us, that player is likely Mainoo, with Eriksen as backup.
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We did, and while Casemiro isn't comfortable playing as a single pivot on offense, he could defend as such. Ugarte cannot, he just doesn't have the positionning. Like Kante, he's far better when he defends forward. You'll need someone who builds from the back and also locks this central position on defense.

Also, Ugarte can be very dominant when in shape and in tune, he really made me think of Kante in the way he reads and block trajectories. On the other hand, when he's out of it, there's not a whole lot left to his game, he can be pretty much useless on and off the ball because his technical abilities (unlike Kante who's very "clean") can't save him.
 
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So what’s the latest?

Is it really really really really close now?
 
Oly Francis said:
We did, and while Casemiro isn't comfortable playing as a single pivot on offense, he could defend as such. Ugarte cannot, he just doesn't have the positionning. Like Kante, he's far better when he defends forward. You'll need someone who builds from the back and also locks this central position on defense.

Also, Ugarte can be very dominant when in shape and in tune, he really made me think of Kante in the way he reads and block trajectories. On the other hand, when he's out of it, there's not a whole lot left to his game, he can be pretty much useless on and off the ball because his technical abilities (unlike Kante who's very "clean") can't save him.
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Ten Hag's off-the-ball strategy involves his midfielders pressing aggressively high up the pitch to disrupt the opposition's play and create opportunities for a quick transition. If the press is evaded, the midfielders are then responsible for quickly recovering their positions, forming a solid double pivot.

However, this tactic relies heavily on the defensive line's positioning. Last season, our defense often sat too deep, allowing the opposition too much space to exploit once our midfield press was bypassed. To counter this, pushing the defensive line higher up the pitch will compress the central areas, reducing the distance our midfielders need to recover and enabling them to engage the opposition's counter-attacks more effectively.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Ten Hag's off-the-ball strategy involves his midfielders pressing aggressively high up the pitch to disrupt the opposition's play and create opportunities for a quick transition. If the press is evaded, the midfielders are then responsible for quickly recovering their positions, forming a solid double pivot.

However, this tactic relies heavily on the defensive line's positioning. Last season, our defense often sat too deep, allowing the opposition too much space to exploit once our midfield press was bypassed. To counter this, pushing the defensive line higher up the pitch will compress the central areas, reducing the distance our midfielders need to recover and enabling them to engage the opposition's counter-attacks more effectively.
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I like Eric, but I really think it would make sense to keep Casemiro on a shorter leash. I don’t feel like his kamikaze runs add more than they take away from our overall performances.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Ederson (Atalanta) allegedly.

One week left after tomorrow.

Journalists saying PSG playing hard ball as Qatar still p!ssed at Jim. There’s a part of me that wants us to get another target (if similar ability/fit) just to p!ss them off more
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I thought it was a private bid by the Sheik? Unless...
 
Bondi77 said:
We have to stick by our guns with this one.
If ever we were holding the whip in a bargaining situation then this is it and if we back down under this new structure then we will continue to be bent over in future negotiations.
Feck these cnuts!
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.threads.net/@manutdin_/post/C_Aip38vP5G&ved=2ahUKEwjxyIKSp4yIAxW0SmwGHUcOMUQQFnoECCUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3vn3ppCm5wrjmxuiO9tKiJ
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Fully agree with you on this. We back down now and it will impact all future negotiations.
 
Oly Francis said:
We did, and while Casemiro isn't comfortable playing as a single pivot on offense, he could defend as such. Ugarte cannot, he just doesn't have the positionning. Like Kante, he's far better when he defends forward. You'll need someone who builds from the back and also locks this central position on defense.

Also, Ugarte can be very dominant when in shape and in tune, he really made me think of Kante in the way he reads and block trajectories. On the other hand, when he's out of it, there's not a whole lot left to his game, he can be pretty much useless on and off the ball because his technical abilities (unlike Kante who's very "clean") can't save him.
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Jeez this will really fuel the fire for his biggest doubters in this thread, sometimes players just work out better at one club than another. He obviously suits Erik's system better than Enrique's
 
croadyman said:
So what should we do then?
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We should have back up targets, but it seems we've focused so much on this transfer that it'd be too late to start negotiations with another player, unless we're already doing so.

Alternatively, we'll have to just make do with what we have or try and bring someone in on loan like we did with Amrabat.

Either way, it's not a very good situation to be in.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
We should have back up targets, but it seems we've focused so much on this transfer that it'd be too late to start negotiations with another player, unless we're already doing so.

Alternatively, we'll have to just make do with what we have or try and bring someone in on loan like we did with Amrabat.

Either way, it's not a very good situation to be in.
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Yeah we did in Berge and Fofana but he has clearly been our number one target all along. I am confident INEOS will find a deal that suits both them and PSG
 
croadyman said:
So what should we do then?
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If they refuse to negotiate down from their asking price, we just have to move on if we do not have better targets. It's going to take more than a year to straighten our process and team, and if we want to ensure longevity in our future success, then getting the process right may be more important than getting that one player in.
 
It's hardly a big gap in valuation if reports are to be trusted. Around 8 million pounds is a problem whose solution should be relativity easy to find.
 
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