Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement

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Ugar my every te, you are my hopes and my dreams
Ugar my every te, so each day I love you just a little more



@antohan
 
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He has been pushing like crazy for a few days now, hope he doesn't get injured.
 
Isotope said:
Ugar my every te, you are my hopes and my dreams
Ugar my every te, so each day I love you just a little more



@antohan
Click to expand...

I don't get any of these creative puns because his surname sounds more like oogahrteh. Barely register the yoghurt references.
 
If taking it to deadline day can bring the price down to what they want then understand, however if it's unlikely to make any difference then may as well just do loan with obligation to buy for a figure now
 
For those bored of reading the same stories and stats, you should read this article using Google's translation. Walks you through his background and evolution as a player.

What I found most remarkable was a story showing that despite having his first team debut aged 15 and getting called up to train with Uruguay's U20 aged 16, he didn't let it get to his head but very much the opposite.

After the first training session alongside the older kids (who went on to win the U20 South American championship), he went up to his dad and told him:
  1. He didn't even touch the ball
  2. His daily morning training with the experienced and seasoned professional club seniors wasn't enough
  3. He needed to move up a level or he wouldn't make it as a pro, so
  4. He had made arrangements with one of the NT fitness coaches (all by himself, aged 16) to go to the athletics course were he worked and get better conditioning.
  5. His dad would pick him up from training at noon, he would eat a packed lunch in the car and do physical training 1-5pm.
"How often?", his dad asked. "Every day". And no, his parents didn't let him skip college, he just skipped classes and studied for exams on his own after 6pm.

That's the sort of attitude and single bloody mindedness I want at the club.
 
antohan said:
For those bored of reading the same stories and stats, you should read this article using Google's translation. Walks you through his background and evolution as a player.

What I found most remarkable was a story showing that despite having his first team debut aged 15 and getting called up to train with Uruguay's U20 aged 16, he didn't let it get to his head but very much the opposite.

After the first training session alongside the older kids (who went on to win the U20 South American championship), he went up to his dad and told him:
  1. He didn't even touch the ball
  2. His daily morning training with the experienced and seasoned professional club seniors wasn't enough
  3. He needed to move up a level or he wouldn't make it as a pro, so
  4. He had made arrangements with one of the NT fitness coaches (all by himself, aged 16) to go to the athletics course were he worked and get better conditioning.
  5. His dad would pick him up from training at noon, he would eat a packed lunch in the car and do physical training 1-5pm.
"How often?", his dad asked. "Every day". And no, his parents didn't let him skip college, he just skipped classes and studied for exams on his own after 6pm.

That's the sort of attitude and single bloody mindedness I want at the club.
Click to expand...

Yeah definitely the right sort of attitude
 
antohan said:
For those bored of reading the same stories and stats, you should read this article using Google's translation. Walks you through his background and evolution as a player.

What I found most remarkable was a story showing that despite having his first team debut aged 15 and getting called up to train with Uruguay's U20 aged 16, he didn't let it get to his head but very much the opposite.

After the first training session alongside the older kids (who went on to win the U20 South American championship), he went up to his dad and told him:
  1. He didn't even touch the ball
  2. His daily morning training with the experienced and seasoned professional club seniors wasn't enough
  3. He needed to move up a level or he wouldn't make it as a pro, so
  4. He had made arrangements with one of the NT fitness coaches (all by himself, aged 16) to go to the athletics course were he worked and get better conditioning.
  5. His dad would pick him up from training at noon, he would eat a packed lunch in the car and do physical training 1-5pm.
"How often?", his dad asked. "Every day". And no, his parents didn't let him skip college, he just skipped classes and studied for exams on his own after 6pm.

That's the sort of attitude and single bloody mindedness I want at the club.
Click to expand...
Needs to be signed asap
 
Mad that in the year of our lord 2024 people still don't appreciate that this is a squad game. Ugarte's qualities on the ball may or may not pleasantly surprise us, but that's not the gap we have in our squad. Teams have breezed through our midfield for the last 2 seasons. Our best tacklers in midfield are Casemiro and... Mainoo maybe? That should make it clear
bb8 said:
You have to know the points you're making aren't even counterarguments, right? It seems like you're arguing in bad faith here, so this'll be my last reply on the matter. Ridiculous to have to go round-and-round on what's fundamentally a quite simple point.
  1. I'm saying that £5M is his current wage and while he's on loan that's what he'll continue to be paid. Even if the loan fee were £8M though, that doesn't create extra costs, since that'd be his wage on a new deal
  2. I used a 4 year contract rather than a 5 year contract to keep the overall comparison like-for-like (5 years in each comparison). We probably will give him a 5 year deal at the end of the loan term, but that will take over overall time with him on the squad to 6 years. In that case, the average cost per year will actually drop, so I figured someone like you would then complain I was using an unfair comparison....
Since it appears this math requires some strong hand-holding, I'll do it again. This time we can do it your way and assume it's an £8M loan fee and a 5 year contract afterwards:

Loan with obligation to buy:

24/25 season: £8M loan fee. After the year we pay £50M transfer fee and Ugarte signs a 5 year contract thereafter for £8M wages a year
25/26 season: £8M wages: £10M fee amortization
26/27 season: £8M wages: £10M fee amortization
27/28 season: £8M wages: £10M fee amortization
28/29 season: £8M wages: £10M fee amortization
29/30 season: £8M wages: £10M fee amortization
Total cost: £98M; £16.33M per season

Immediate purchase for £50M transfer fee and Ugarte signs a 5 year contract thereafter for £8M wages a year:

24/25 season: £8M wages: £10M fee amortization
25/26 season: £8M wages: £10M fee amortization
26/27 season: £8M wages: £10M fee amortization
27/28 season: £8M wages: £10M fee amortization
28/29 season: £8M wages: £10M fee amortization
Total cost: £90M; £18M per season

As you can see, in this case it's cheaper per season to do the loan-with-obligation (£16.33M vs £18M per season). Yes, the total cost is higher for loan with obligation, but we get to retain him for an extra season.
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Not sure why you've started being insulting. I thought this was just a conversation? I understand that his current wage is £5M. But having agreed £8M salary to start with us this year, I think the idea that we could unilaterally change that to £5M with no consequences to be implausible.

Likewise using a 4 year contract period vs 5 could have been fair, but you then argued that this made for a better amortisation value per year. The amortisation period has nothing to do with the existence or absence of the loan, so the way you structured the numbers in both thoses cases felt disingenuous.

I'd also note that your cost per season really doesn't mean much. If we paid £75M and signed him up on a 10 year contract, that would lower the cost per year even further. That wouldn't make it a better deal financially.

Total outlay is a useful figure. Cashflow matters. Cost on a year by year basis can also be useful. Impact on PSR is good to know. Even then, there is no one "best" way of looking at it, it depends on your aims. But cost per year, especially when comparing different time frames, means very little. The lower figure or the higher figure could be the better deal, depending on the particulars.

Finally, I'd refer you back the original posts, which I think you've lost sight of. Other posters were saying that 60M euros was a bad deal, because we'd been pushing for 50M and we eventually folded and paid the full amount they wanted in the first place. I said I thought that this 60M deal including a loan was actually a good compromise, since it might allow us some more flexibility to buy another player this summer. However after another poster replied, I said that if we didn't actually use that flexibility, then it wasn't such a good deal. At which point I pointed out that, if we paid a loan fee (over and above his wages), it would be even more overall. So my point was about the 60M vs 50M. The loan fee was really just an aside.

It would have been sufficient to just say you don't think we're going to pay a loan fee. But since you provided the figures, Im happy to chat about them, that's the point in this place. But it was never the thrust of my argument, and certainly nothing to start being rude about.
 
From mine personal point of views :

From a business point of view it will not be smart from Manchester United. To buy Ugarte this summer and they do consider to buy Wharton next summer or in the future. Why?

Why not smart business decisions:
From summer 2024 ------------------------------------------->To summer 2025 : Ugarte prize and marker value will only fall. Why? PSG's manager doesn't prefer him. The prize will just fall. If he just start much of the matches from the bench. Or rotating here and there.
PSG most prefer cm choices: Vitinha and Fabian Ruiz. 2 cm player that are a lot better on the ball. And the manager want a proactive set up and football. Compare to Ugarte who is most known as a top ball winner.
So paying the prize between 50-60 mill euros for cm player that the manager doesn't prefer anymore. Is a lot.

And buying Wharton next summer :
MV summer 2024: 30 mill euros---------------a regular starter for Palace and keep deliver conistent high performance----------------> summer 2025 = MV and price will just rise. Potential 50-60 mill euros summer 2025.

So potential United decision:
Ugarte summer 2024. Not loan. 50 -60 mill euros
Adam Wharton summer 2025. Palace will demand everything over 80 mill euros if Wharton keep deliver the same performance this season like he did in the last 7 league matches for Palace.
With that 2 buy = around 150 mill euros

Instead solution and decision:
Wharton 2024. 60 mill euros. Palace is a selling club. They just sold they best attacking player in Olise to Bayern Munich. So if the price is right and they are not gonna stop the player ambition to play for a top club. At the right price. They shall let the player goes.
Ugarte with a lower market value and price summer 2025. Max 40-50 mill euros
Sum of this solution : 110 mill euros.

Palace just paid 20 mill euros for Wharton in Feb this year to Blackburn. Demand 100 mill euros, just 6 months later. Is a lot. 2-3 X double/triple up the paid price from 20 mill euros should be the right price for Palace. Profit of around 40 mill euros.


And from football point of view. Personal why not smart decision? Ugarte this summer and Wharton next summer :
+ United don't have a cm player like Adam Wharton in theirs squad and team. Wharton is a deep lying controlling cm playmaker.
Mainoo is box to box cm. Mainoo has goals in his games. He shall keep playing like that.
Casemiro even at this age. Casemiro is all over the place. Sometime like Mainoo from box to box.
And McTom, Collyer, Dan Gore and Eriksen is not like Wharton.
+ But United do have a cm who a closer to Ugarte. McTom can be a good ball winner and destoyer if you command him to do that role. McFred were to DM destroyer. Suit against top teams with high line. But against parking bus and tight defenders. Team with McFred under Ole were struggling.
And Toby Collyer is good ballwinner. He just need to adapt the speed, intensity and how to dispose his energy. Not high and top energy all time. Then he will gas out really early.
Like Ipswich were high and aggresive press Liverpool in the first match. Working in first half when the energy was full and on top. Second half. Playing high line against Liverpool, then you are done.
So with aspect of the game. Type of cm player. Beside being a really good ball winner. Wharton will give United more way to play with, more strings and options to play with.
United can easily switch to 433 proactive against team United shall dominate. And be more compact with 5 men midfield. Instead of only 4 midfield in a 4411 formation.

+ Another smarter decision why go for Adam Wharton this summer? :
Wharton and Ugarte will be 2 different way of football and set up.

Ugarte = destroyer and ball winner = counter attack and transition football against top teams.
Wharton = will give and United will been able to control the ball more. Rise the ball possession. Against top teams. With 5 midfield like this:

Diallo - Bruno - Wharton(controlling deep lying playmaker) - Mainoo - Rashford + Højlund/Zirkzee.

With Ugarte for Wharton in that role will be a more counter attack set up. Clearly.


Now example with a more proactive, ball possession team is Pep and City football setup and mindset:

Instead of chasing the ball and stop opponent attack. Pep and City team will reduce opponent level of creating chances. Because you get to have the ball to create chances and goals. Pep's teams are 1-2 moves ahead of theirs opponents. Beside being really good with winning the ball back. They are so dominating with ball possesion. Not giving chances or reduce opponent chances a lot.

Instead of set up with counter attack and ball winners players. It's like stop firing with it happen.

Pep teams having the ball most of the time. Avoid the firer before it happen and appear. Some move ahead of time.

For personally. I prefer Pep way of thinking and tactic.

You use more energy to stop the firer/opponent attack. Instead you let the opponent chasing the ball. And by having the ball a lot. The chance that firer will appear are lower and lesser energy using.


And in the end : United had a different set up against City in the final and had a bit of luck :
+ Different set up : Amrabat. Amrabat was really good and big during that match
+ Lucky with the big mistake from the City player that lead to the first goal. And lead the match into a different path. United can't rely on opponent mistakes all the times. So that trophy had many others factors. Then just United counter attack set up. City mistake was just meant to happen? We never know for sure.


So that are mine personal point of view. From a business point of view and a football point of view. It just mine advices and recommendation. It's all up to Manchester United.

Yes credit to ours firefighters. But we all hope that firer will not appear. Good and smart to have players to stop counter attack. But for me, i think you a smarter. If you don't need to stop counter attack. Or at least lesser counter attack.

And if a manager is thinking about attacking attacking and proactive football = he and his club will attract best skill ful and ball players.
Compare to a manager thinking of counter attack = he will attract counter attack football players.

Example at first place Ten Hag was thinking of proactive football. He want Frenkie De Jong, Rabiot. Then he switched his mind to counter attack football = Ten Hag just attract counter attack players. Casemiro = ball winner. Mount = ball winner. Amrabat. Now Ugarte.


So that are how i see things with Pep and Ten Hag mindset. Ten Hag might switch back to more ball players in Maz and Zirkzee. But still. That process switch back to plane A. With the pressure to deliver. Not only from Ten Hag, but the new structure. Not 100 % offensive. Like Pep.

And when you attract the best ball players, always want to dominate. Think and living with it----------> dominate result = 4 leagues titles in a row. The mindset is/are the main factor.
 
LuckyScout78 said:
From mine personal point of views :

From a business point of view it will not be smart from Manchester United. To buy Ugarte this summer and they do consider to buy Wharton next summer or in the future. Why?

Why not smart business decisions:
From summer 2024 ------------------------------------------->To summer 2025 : Ugarte prize and marker value will only fall. Why? PSG's manager doesn't prefer him. The prize will just fall. If he just start much of the matches from the bench. Or rotating here and there.
PSG most prefer cm choices: Vitinha and Fabian Ruiz. 2 cm player that are a lot better on the ball. And the manager want a proactive set up and football. Compare to Ugarte who is most known as a top ball winner.
So paying the prize between 50-60 mill euros for cm player that the manager doesn't prefer anymore. Is a lot.

And buying Wharton next summer :
MV summer 2024: 30 mill euros---------------a regular starter for Palace and keep deliver conistent high performance----------------> summer 2025 = MV and price will just rise. Potential 50-60 mill euros summer 2025.

So potential United decision:
Ugarte summer 2024. Not loan. 50 -60 mill euros
Adam Wharton summer 2025. Palace will demand everything over 80 mill euros if Wharton keep deliver the same performance this season like he did in the last 7 league matches for Palace.
With that 2 buy = around 150 mill euros

Instead solution and decision:
Wharton 2024. 60 mill euros. Palace is a selling club. They just sold they best attacking player in Olise to Bayern Munich. So if the price is right and they are not gonna stop the player ambition to play for a top club. At the right price. They shall let the player goes.
Ugarte with a lower market value and price summer 2025. Max 40-50 mill euros
Sum of this solution : 110 mill euros.

Palace just paid 20 mill euros for Wharton in Feb this year to Blackburn. Demand 100 mill euros, just 6 months later. Is a lot. 2-3 X double/triple up the paid price from 20 mill euros should be the right price for Palace. Profit of around 40 mill euros.


And from football point of view. Personal why not smart decision? Ugarte this summer and Wharton next summer :
+ United don't have a cm player like Adam Wharton in theirs squad and team. Wharton is a deep lying controlling cm playmaker.
Mainoo is box to box cm. Mainoo has goals in his games. He shall keep playing like that.
Casemiro even at this age. Casemiro is all over the place. Sometime like Mainoo from box to box.
And McTom, Collyer, Dan Gore and Eriksen is not like Wharton.
+ But United do have a cm who a closer to Ugarte. McTom can be a good ball winner and destoyer if you command him to do that role. McFred were to DM destroyer. Suit against top teams with high line. But against parking bus and tight defenders. Team with McFred under Ole were struggling.
And Toby Collyer is good ballwinner. He just need to adapt the speed, intensity and how to dispose his energy. Not high and top energy all time. Then he will gas out really early.
Like Ipswich were high and aggresive press Liverpool in the first match. Working in first half when the energy was full and on top. Second half. Playing high line against Liverpool, then you are done.
So with aspect of the game. Type of cm player. Beside being a really good ball winner. Wharton will give United more way to play with, more strings and options to play with.
United can easily switch to 433 proactive against team United shall dominate. And be more compact with 5 men midfield. Instead of only 4 midfield in a 4411 formation.

+ Another smarter decision why go for Adam Wharton this summer? :
Wharton and Ugarte will be 2 different way of football and set up.

Ugarte = destroyer and ball winner = counter attack and transition football against top teams.
Wharton = will give and United will been able to control the ball more. Rise the ball possession. Against top teams. With 5 midfield like this:

Diallo - Bruno - Wharton(controlling deep lying playmaker) - Mainoo - Rashford + Højlund/Zirkzee.

With Ugarte for Wharton in that role will be a more counter attack set up. Clearly.


Now example with a more proactive, ball possession team is Pep and City football setup and mindset:

Instead of chasing the ball and stop opponent attack. Pep and City team will reduce opponent level of creating chances. Because you get to have the ball to create chances and goals. Pep's teams are 1-2 moves ahead of theirs opponents. Beside being really good with winning the ball back. They are so dominating with ball possesion. Not giving chances or reduce opponent chances a lot.

Instead of set up with counter attack and ball winners players. It's like stop firing with it happen.

Pep teams having the ball most of the time. Avoid the firer before it happen and appear. Some move ahead of time.

For personally. I prefer Pep way of thinking and tactic.

You use more energy to stop the firer/opponent attack. Instead you let the opponent chasing the ball. And by having the ball a lot. The chance that firer will appear are lower and lesser energy using.


And in the end : United had a different set up against City in the final and had a bit of luck :
+ Different set up : Amrabat. Amrabat was really good and big during that match
+ Lucky with the big mistake from the City player that lead to the first goal. And lead the match into a different path. United can't rely on opponent mistakes all the times. So that trophy had many others factors. Then just United counter attack set up. City mistake was just meant to happen? We never know for sure.


So that are mine personal point of view. From a business point of view and a football point of view. It just mine advices and recommendation. It's all up to Manchester United.

Yes credit to ours firefighters. But we all hope that firer will not appear. Good and smart to have players to stop counter attack. But for me, i think you a smarter. If you don't need to stop counter attack. Or at least lesser counter attack.

And if a manager is thinking about attacking attacking and proactive football = he and his club will attract best skill ful and ball players.
Compare to a manager thinking of counter attack = he will attract counter attack football players.

Example at first place Ten Hag was thinking of proactive football. He want Frenkie De Jong, Rabiot. Then he switched his mind to counter attack football = Ten Hag just attract counter attack players. Casemiro = ball winner. Mount = ball winner. Amrabat. Now Ugarte.


So that are how i see things with Pep and Ten Hag mindset. Ten Hag might switch back to more ball players in Maz and Zirkzee. But still. That process switch back to plane A. With the pressure to deliver. Not only from Ten Hag, but the new structure. Not 100 % offensive. Like Pep.

And when you attract the best ball players, always want to dominate. Think and living with it----------> dominate result = 4 leagues titles in a row. The mindset is/are the main factor.
Click to expand...

ChatGPT has really gone downhill.
 
NLunited said:
He is elite in ball retention.

Our problems last season were lack of ball retention and lack of defensive presence in midfield.

Progressing the ball is not an issue, we have brought in four players to help with that already.
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Not having players with good technique who keep the ball, has been a long term problem, not just from last season. I can't tell you how tired I am of seeing lesser teams able to pop it around in front of us, us struggling to get it back and when we get it, just lose it again, through awful ball retention.
 
Zlatans Knee said:
I was referring to his point about us needing a controlling/intelligent midfielder.
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What's the point in having a controlling midfielder, if we can't win the bloody ball back. We NEED a ball winner !!

We have Brighton coming up next. In our last 6 vs them, we lost 4 times! Do you know why, because we couldn't get the ball off them. They just popped it about at will. The centrebacks, Dunk, and the other guy, can't remember his name now, they just took the absolute piss, we couldn't get near em. This needs to change. We need an aggressive ball winner in there desperately. This guy seems to excel in everything that we are lacking, pressing and ball winning, then being able to hold onto it.
 
Seems to me that the DM position is just about the hardest to find a upper level quality player at, and world class are as rare as hen's teeth, I hope that Ugarte is the answer for us, and can give us 5+ good seasons in that position, something we have missed since Keane
 
Zed 101 said:
Seems to me that the DM position is just about the hardest to find a upper level quality player at, and world class are as rare as hen's teeth, I hope that Ugarte is the answer for us, and can give us 5+ good seasons in that position, something we have missed since Keane
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Agreed.
 
Utds midfield problems last season were not down to the absence of a pure ball winner, the utterly inept shape and tactics made the job of the midfield next to impossible.

If Ten Hag goes back to that set up and expects Ugarte to cover that space Ten Hag will be sacked by Halloween and Ugarte will probably be dead.
 
antohan said:
Playing and giving it away need not go together.

You are correct in that Ugarte keeps the ball circulating but he doesn't make the sort of hospital passes we used to get from McFred. He also keeps moving to offer his teammates an out to the press, which is one of the main reasons balls are given away for fun (static players leaving no easy pass on).

I get your point re "the pause", but then, ten or so years ago people kept bitching about Carrick's pauses being a bombscare when facing a high press.

Players that can pull that off are so rare that Real Madrid have won 5 of the last 10 CLs on the back of having two of those.
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Yeah, the common factor between those two(playing/giving away) is the quick release.

Ball retention is welcome, but like Scholesy said, we need players who know how to slow the game down too, to control the pace of the game. That's not Ugarte's skillset, and that's not his fault. The problem is, that skillset is not there in our other midfielders either(Mainoo exception/debatable).

I know about the bitching about Carrick, I was there. Those days people wanted Diarra, another pure DM, to replace him. Some even wanted De Rossi. But I was always a fan of Carrick, even before 12/13.

I know players of that profile are rare, but they are there if you scour the market. A couple even moved this window. But our manager is not interested it seems, he is content with the basketball-esque style we play, and that's concerning imo.
 
antohan said:
For those bored of reading the same stories and stats, you should read this article using Google's translation. Walks you through his background and evolution as a player.

What I found most remarkable was a story showing that despite having his first team debut aged 15 and getting called up to train with Uruguay's U20 aged 16, he didn't let it get to his head but very much the opposite.

After the first training session alongside the older kids (who went on to win the U20 South American championship), he went up to his dad and told him:
  1. He didn't even touch the ball
  2. His daily morning training with the experienced and seasoned professional club seniors wasn't enough
  3. He needed to move up a level or he wouldn't make it as a pro, so
  4. He had made arrangements with one of the NT fitness coaches (all by himself, aged 16) to go to the athletics course were he worked and get better conditioning.
  5. His dad would pick him up from training at noon, he would eat a packed lunch in the car and do physical training 1-5pm.
"How often?", his dad asked. "Every day". And no, his parents didn't let him skip college, he just skipped classes and studied for exams on his own after 6pm.

That's the sort of attitude and single bloody mindedness I want at the club.
Click to expand...

antohan said:
For those bored of reading the same stories and stats, you should read this article using Google's translation. Walks you through his background and evolution as a player.

What I found most remarkable was a story showing that despite having his first team debut aged 15 and getting called up to train with Uruguay's U20 aged 16, he didn't let it get to his head but very much the opposite.

After the first training session alongside the older kids (who went on to win the U20 South American championship), he went up to his dad and told him:
  1. He didn't even touch the ball
  2. His daily morning training with the experienced and seasoned professional club seniors wasn't enough
  3. He needed to move up a level or he wouldn't make it as a pro, so
  4. He had made arrangements with one of the NT fitness coaches (all by himself, aged 16) to go to the athletics course were he worked and get better conditioning.
  5. His dad would pick him up from training at noon, he would eat a packed lunch in the car and do physical training 1-5pm.
"How often?", his dad asked. "Every day". And no, his parents didn't let him skip college, he just skipped classes and studied for exams on his own after 6pm.

That's the sort of attitude and single bloody mindedness I want at the club.
Click to expand...

If this was Sancho, 1-3 would be the same, but 4-5 would be going on FIFA, blaming the manager and sulking.

This is why we need Ugarte, it's the mental toughness he brings more than anything else.
 
We have definitely overpaid here. 51 million is too much. He is a great player adds some much needed aggression and determination to the midfield. But Andre was quoted at £30 million and Milan got Fofana for a similar fee. I know slightly different profiles to Ugarte. Also Ederson at Atalanta who has more of an all around game and would of been a similar fee.
 
It's interesting how the perceived value changes year by year...last summer £50m would of been seen as a lower fee, especially in comparison to the money Chelsea were throwing around.

This summer the fees have generally reduced and the market feels less crazy so £50m becomes a little inflated.

But Fred cost United the best part of £50m 6 years ago...it just depends if you want to feel good or bad about the deal.
 
The-Mezzala said:
We have definitely overpaid here. 51 million is too much. He is a great player adds some much needed aggression and determination to the midfield. But Andre was quoted at £30 million and Milan got Fofana for a similar fee. I know slightly different profiles to Ugarte. Also Ederson at Atalanta who has more of an all around game and would of been a similar fee.
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AC Milan paid around 17M for Fofana. And yeah, Joao Neves and A.Onana also went for ~50M fee this summer.

So many midfielders moved this summer, but it seems our target was Ugarte. Only time will tell if we overpaid/made the right choice.
 
RuudTom83 said:
It's interesting how the perceived value changes year by year...last summer £50m would of been seen as a lower fee, especially in comparison to the money Chelsea were throwing around.

This summer the fees have generally reduced and the market feels less crazy so £50m becomes a little inflated.

But Fred cost United the best part of £50m 6 years ago...it just depends if you want to feel good or bad about the deal.
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I don't think it's really too much. By all accounts he is possibly the best in the world of his type of player and he is 23.

I disagree that we need that profile of midfielder but if we are going for one then I would argue that price is pretty reasonable.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
I don't think it's really too much. By all accounts he is possibly the best in the world of his type of player and he is 23.

I disagree that we need that profile of midfielder but if we are going for one then I would argue that price is pretty reasonable.
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Its too much because PSG paid 51M for him last summer, and now he's unwanted there. Its outrageous they want the same fee, considering they are going to start paying for him this summer anyway.

If we were in a similar position, his value would have taken a subtantial hit(think how much we would get for Mount if we tried selling him this summer).
 
The-Mezzala said:
We have definitely overpaid here. 51 million is too much. He is a great player adds some much needed aggression and determination to the midfield. But Andre was quoted at £30 million and Milan got Fofana for a similar fee. I know slightly different profiles to Ugarte. Also Ederson at Atalanta who has more of an all around game and would of been a similar fee.
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‘Andre is not even his name, mate’ by the way Villa brought him for £50 million. Fofana is not the profile United are looking for, as he is more of a box-to-box midfielder, if United was serious about him they’d have easily matched the €25m AC Milan spent. Finally as you mentioned, Ederson could be a similar fee as Ugarte, however looking at the key stats, Ugarte beats Ederson on most revelant metrics.

I honestly think the figure is not terrible, maybe £5-10m+ what United want to pay but give it a few months & fans will not even care about the figure. Ugarte will be key figure in the team.
 
Highfather_24 said:
Its too much because PSG paid 51M for him last summer, and now he's unwanted there. Its outrageous they want the same fee, considering they are going to start paying for him this summer anyway.

If we were in a similar position, his value would have taken a subtantial hit(think how much we would get for Mount if we tried selling him this summer).
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That doesn't mean anything. He didn't fail there they just want a different profile of player. Add that to the fact they are probably happy to keep him as a squad option if we don't pay what they want.

If he's worth 50m to us and if 49m is not enough for them to let him go then that is the price. Mount is a totally different situation as there are clearly definable reasons that his value has dipped and despite being a good player it was too high to begin with.
 
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