Should stop listening to posters Ugarte dribbles the ball to progress as does Mainoo
The team you play for dictates how long you dwell on the ball too
Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement
- Thread starter WeePat
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The team you play for dictates how long you dwell on the ball too
Fair point, however inability to sell McTominay or Eriksen combined with manager who doesn't value possession enough means it's tricky situation
All our midfielders except Mainoo treat the ball like hot potatoes, playing/giving it away as soon as they get it. Bruno, Casemiro, Mount all of them.
Ugarte has the same style too. Can be problematic, leads to games looking like basketball when we play.
It‘s ok to have a safer passer next to more progressive passers in the team, it is all about balance. Ugarte can play progressive passes, he just doesn‘t excel at it.
I have high hopes for Collyer as well. Anyway, it is not either or, we need two solid options for each position.
Like I just said lack of sales in CM has played a part
I've been led to believe he's a decent carrier
Got it, so next week things should be moving forward? Hopefully all parties are confident of a deal being possible.
Indeed, and he doesn‘t play risky passes.
It takes time to get back to the top as is evident with Liverpool and Arsenal and other teams. Our whole team is not good enough in possesion to play tika taka like Man City and prime Barca. We just don't have the players. Hell Madrid can't even play that way as well and rely on pure talent. The amount of shots conceded last season every game this signing is a must.
We do need a Modric/Kroos/Rodri type player but this is a great start in my opinion and we should get that type of player maybe next season when Casemeiro moves on but Casemeiro will do for now.
I believe he will be one of the signings of the season from what I have seen of him. We have to start somewhere with the rebuilding.
We do need a Modric/Kroos/Rodri type player but this is a great start in my opinion and we should get that type of player maybe next season when Casemeiro moves on but Casemeiro will do for now.
I believe he will be one of the signings of the season from what I have seen of him. We have to start somewhere with the rebuilding.
Don't spoil their narrative!
Ugarto break free (from PSGee)
Mount is more than decent at ball carrying too. That's not really what I was talking about, its about someone who can slow the game down or speed it up, someone who basically controls the tempo of the game. Someone who is composed on the ball.
We lack that profile apart from Mainoo(who is still young and learning) and Eriksen(cant run).
Ugarte will be great for us. Perfect replacement for Herrera and Fred. Another player who will be a key in big games like the former.
Endless stamina, clean, high volume tackler, fighting spirit for 100 minutes per game. People dont realize how important it is. Winning the ball higher up the pitch creates openings and higher quality chances. Especially for a team like ours set up to play fast in transitions. Now we are struggling to open up defences because our pressing is just one of the worst in the league and are rather contain the oponent, and it is always difficult to progress from our own half.
Can't believe some people are trying to claim McT is a better passer. He never shows up for the ball in the first place and is erratic passer to say the least. You dont need a progressive passer. If we can move the ball faster you dont need a hollywood pass to create chances. There are other players to thread the ball through.
On top of that we are getting a player who will make us much better defensively covering for extremely slow Casemiro and Mainoo. If the coach doesnt shit his pants and tries to play a bit more aggressive football, instead of Van Gaal ball, Ugarte will be perfect for us.
Endless stamina, clean, high volume tackler, fighting spirit for 100 minutes per game. People dont realize how important it is. Winning the ball higher up the pitch creates openings and higher quality chances. Especially for a team like ours set up to play fast in transitions. Now we are struggling to open up defences because our pressing is just one of the worst in the league and are rather contain the oponent, and it is always difficult to progress from our own half.
Can't believe some people are trying to claim McT is a better passer. He never shows up for the ball in the first place and is erratic passer to say the least. You dont need a progressive passer. If we can move the ball faster you dont need a hollywood pass to create chances. There are other players to thread the ball through.
On top of that we are getting a player who will make us much better defensively covering for extremely slow Casemiro and Mainoo. If the coach doesnt shit his pants and tries to play a bit more aggressive football, instead of Van Gaal ball, Ugarte will be perfect for us.
Manchester United does not need to play like a Spanish team or "La Pausa". Effective possession is more important than rotating the ball without purpose. Keeping the ball isn't only on the midfield, it is reliant on the off the ball movement, technical ability and intelligent decisions of the entire team.
As I've said previously, Ugarte or any single player is not going to save Manchester United. The team needs to improve significantly in all department and that rests on the shoulders of the manager. If Ten Hag fails, which I hope he doesn't as I want United to succeed, then he will be sent packing back to Amsterdam.
Ugarte is a player with a type of quality that complements the team. Dynamic, reads the game well, aggressive, and technically better than most give him credit for. He is not Pirlo but no one in football is. Focus more on his strengths and improve the team with more quality. Expecting Ugarte to be something he isn't is ridiculous and it is more ridiculous if you expect him to single handedly transform the midfield. The other players must step up. There's much work to be done.
Fair enough, however, so it's said (about Mount's carrying) but we've not seen it too much here, and the lack of that attribute causes the hot potato scenario you describe. A player who can dribble a bit and move confidently with the ball isn't under pressure to release it as quick as it comes, and as far as I understand, when Ugarte does pass it, he's safe and rarely gives it away.
Those 2 attributes (carrying and safe passing), while not being what you've described, I think could go a long way to helping our midfield gain more control. Right now everyone is actually trying to be too expansive and looking to hit one pass straight into the attackers
I never said we need to be like prime Barcelona. We simply lack that profile in midfield, and Ten Hag surely knows that, and is actively not seeking it out. We will see if that work out for him. I for one dont enjoy the ping pong nature of games post 75mins when we play.
Amrabat was a fairly safe passer too, decent at keeping the ball. Dont think it really helped much.
Anyway, here's a video for the muppets
Good post. On the last part in bold though, the reality is we should be getting both.
We're obviously prioritising the former because that's what the manager wants but there are plenty of fans (including myself) who are desperate for us to play with control in midfield.
We won't get there this season because Ten Hag doesn't really care about that but we really ought to sort the balance of the midfield by next summer. We've misprofiled players for years and it has led to us having an eclectic selection of midfielders to choose from.
It's a small change but even the youth signing of Sekou Kone could be encouraging if he sees any first team minutes this season.
They are different profiles but unfortunately we've played McTominay in the deeper positions far too often in recent years, which doesn't optimise any of his best traits.
We looked more in control with even Amrabat than other kamikaze options though. His bigger issue was his speed and agility especially with the big spaces in midfield last season.
Nice vid!!
Get on with it and get this cnut signed up. Bored of waiting now.
Anything you want, Ugarte
Anything you need, Ugarte
Anything at all, Ugarte
For miiidfield
Anything you need, Ugarte
Anything at all, Ugarte
For miiidfield
Fernandes is usually pretty far up the pitch, so he isn't really part of the build-up, and Mainoo isn't much of a progressive passer either IMO. He's good at progressive carries, but not that great at progressive passes for me. That's why I would prefer someone next to him that's a high volume passer and good at vertical line breaking passes.
Amrabat was positionally all over the place (and not in a good way), in addition to being sluggish. I don’t remember us ever being more in control thanks to him.
I'm not sure why you say this in this particular case. That's probably the best I've seen of him as a pundit. Not particularly insightful, as usual, but he isn't wrong.
Sounds like your average fan in the pub.
Catchy.
That's an improvement, it was hard enough to get him to engage in conversation.
You have to know the points you're making aren't even counterarguments, right? It seems like you're arguing in bad faith here, so this'll be my last reply on the matter. Ridiculous to have to go round-and-round on what's fundamentally a quite simple point.
- I'm saying that £5M is his current wage and while he's on loan that's what he'll continue to be paid. Even if the loan fee were £8M though, that doesn't create extra costs, since that'd be his wage on a new deal
- I used a 4 year contract rather than a 5 year contract to keep the overall comparison like-for-like (5 years in each comparison). We probably will give him a 5 year deal at the end of the loan term, but that will take over overall time with him on the squad to 6 years. In that case, the average cost per year will actually drop, so I figured someone like you would then complain I was using an unfair comparison....
Loan with obligation to buy:
24/25 season: £8M loan fee. After the year we pay £50M transfer fee and Ugarte signs a 5 year contract thereafter for £8M wages a year
25/26 season: £8M wages: £10M fee amortization
26/27 season: £8M wages: £10M fee amortization
27/28 season: £8M wages: £10M fee amortization
28/29 season: £8M wages: £10M fee amortization
29/30 season: £8M wages: £10M fee amortization
Total cost: £98M; £16.33M per season
Immediate purchase for £50M transfer fee and Ugarte signs a 5 year contract thereafter for £8M wages a year:
24/25 season: £8M wages: £10M fee amortization
25/26 season: £8M wages: £10M fee amortization
26/27 season: £8M wages: £10M fee amortization
27/28 season: £8M wages: £10M fee amortization
28/29 season: £8M wages: £10M fee amortization
Total cost: £90M; £18M per season
As you can see, in this case it's cheaper per season to do the loan-with-obligation (£16.33M vs £18M per season). Yes, the total cost is higher for loan with obligation, but we get to retain him for an extra season.
Style is dependant on the team you play for, like I said Ugarte progresses the ball with his dribbling and keeps the ball well under pressure, then he makes a pass to recycle posession. Not being an expansive distributor does not mean treating the ball like a hot potato.
There is a reason his passing percentages are high.
If hes playing in a high tempo pressing team like Sporting then yes of course he played the ball quickly that is how the team was setup.
There's times when you've been out all week busy working hard, securing the coin. Coin coin coin coin. Only certain man know what I'm talking about when it comes to securing the coin. You just feel like you've earned it, you feel like you deserve it. Lovely drop that, lovely drop.
Go on then
He had bad games for us, but no he wasn't positionally all over the place, he was the one that tended to hold his position as a DM, and I do remember us more in control against City in the FA cup and against some other teams, e.g. Palace in the cup game.
Obviously, he wasn't the answer but his main issue was the sluggishness
Maybe it will be like day of Community Shield two weeks ago and we get the tweet on matchday again
Looking less and less likely that we sign him in time for him to contribute in the Liverpool game (especially with no minutes this season so far). We may as well play take our time and negotiate as hard as possible with the international break coming up. In INEOS we trust.
Ugarte deal moves inches closer every day.
Yeah does look like we don't seem in a rush to get him signed before the scousers game
Will he help us keep the ball?
We are up one at Anfield in the 75th minute - does he help us see out the game?
Possession is not the be all end all that it once was, but all the great sides are capable. We are not and haven't been great since 2013.
We are up one at Anfield in the 75th minute - does he help us see out the game?
Possession is not the be all end all that it once was, but all the great sides are capable. We are not and haven't been great since 2013.
He would contribute greatly to Liverpool not ripping straight through the centre of us.
Playing and giving it away need not go together.
You are correct in that Ugarte keeps the ball circulating but he doesn't make the sort of hospital passes we used to get from McFred. He also keeps moving to offer his teammates an out to the press, which is one of the main reasons balls are given away for fun (static players leaving no easy pass on).
I get your point re "the pause", but then, ten or so years ago people kept bitching about Carrick's pauses being a bombscare when facing a high press.
Players that can pull that off are so rare that Real Madrid have won 5 of the last 10 CLs on the back of having two of those.
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