Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement

[PizzaPlanet]

However great Ugarte would be for us (who knows), if PSG wants more than his book value we should walk away.

Paying more than that will demonstrate that nothing has changed, that if you go up against us in a transfer battle, we will blink first and you will profit. It will set us up for endless transfer misery.

We have a very rare opportunity to reset our reputation in the transfer market this summer. Let's not squander it.

 

[Brophs]

The suggestion was all along that PSG wanted around €60m whereas we didn’t want to pay any more than €50m. If we’re paying €60m then you’d think we’ve agreed pretty favourable payment terms, at the very least.

 

[Sunny Jim]

There is no world in which we should be paying €60 million for him.

If he isn’t partially amrotized yet yes there is a reason to demand 60mil

 

[Ekeke]

This is the point, for me. He's statistically the best ball-winning high work-rate DM out there, and at 23 basically at the best possible age to buy a player - no longer young or unproven but still with 7 to 10 years of top level football in him. Compared to other midfield sales this summer, it's good value.

PSG are not selling because there's anything wrong with him, and both his game-time and stats from last season back that up. They're selling because they want a different type of midfielder instead. Some on here might also want that different, DLP type player. But clearly Ineos do not, because they're going for Ugarte. And there's no risk of them not understanding the kind of player he is, it's clear as crystal. My nan could tell you the type of player he is.

The only problem with all this is PSG just did it. They bought him, he played well as a straight DM and nothing more and now they're selling him because they dont want a straight DM it seems. Clearly they were confused that he wasnt also a progressive passer or something

 

[sullydnl]

Would it just be purchase to "upgrade?" The two deeper midfield options we have at the moment are Mainoo and Casemiro. The only other options are McTominay, who can't play there, and Collyer who we are looking to bed in.

Next season it is not unlikely that McTominay and Casemiro have left the club. So buying another midfielder wouldn't be "upgrading" but just providing another quality option in the squad. Not every purchase is a damnation of our current options.

Agree, this is a key piece of context.

I would understand the reluctance to sign Ugarte more if we were looking to sign a key player to be a lynchpin in the starting eleven over the next half-decade or so. And signing Ugarte would therefore block us from signing better prospects for that role, or see him pushed to limited gametime when we do shortly sign a better prospect for that role.

But the actual circumstance of this signing is Amrabat having just left the squad and Casemiro, McTominay and Eriksen all having glaring doubts over their immediate futures at the club. Not to mention our seemingly heavy reliance on the 19 year old Mainoo for the skillset he brings to midfield.

The point being that irrespective of how well Ugarte does, we will still be looking to sign other midfielders over the coming transfer windows, simply to fill upcoming vacancies in the squad we can already see approaching.

In other words even if someone like Wharton is signed next summer, that still leaves Ugarte in a position to play a lot of minutes over the following seasons. Because we still won't have that many options in midfield.

 

[AS18_]

All reporting is coming from the French journalists and Romano is just reposting them. Seems very convenient that they are reporting the fee PSG want. I will wait until the club starts briefing.

 

[ash_86]

The suggestion was all along that PSG wanted around €60m whereas we didn’t want to pay any more than €50m. If we’re paying €60m then you’d think we’ve agreed pretty favourable payment terms, at the very least.

Absolutely. They paid €60m release clause to Sporting which is usually done in one shot. If we pay the same over 3-5 years, then it's a very good deal for us.

 

[Malone_Post]

Can’t help but feel this signing has red flags written all over it.

A player with obvious flaws, wanted by the majority of the cafe no matter the price as deemed the missing piece of the puzzle, with anyone expressing doubts shouted down by the masses. Eerily similar to the threads we had on Sancho, Antony, Di Maria, Lukaku, Maguire etc etc

Hope he turns out to be a far better signing then any of them were. We clearly need at least one more midfielder and a successful season might depend on him hitting the ground running.

 

[Avid fan]

So it’s 50m pounds isn’t it? For that sort of fee, you’d expect someone who commands a first team place imo - like Martinez. Enough of adding squad players for inflated fees. Hope Ineos has got this right and he isn’t another “option” in a year or twos time.

I am glad we aren’t going over 50/60m for any transfer this summer. For awhile I’ve wanted us to enforce a similar limit.

Yeah we all want to have a better squad that can challenge Arsenal and City in the next two years and i think even if Ugarte doesn't turn out to be first choice he will become a very good squad option which improves us down the line.

Also City who we want to overtake are generally known to be shrewd operators in the market and they assembled their squad with good 40/50m players.

If we truly want the club to become great again then I don't think we should be wanting low cost 25/35m players, because then our target should shift to competing with the Brighton and 6/7 positions and not the top table.

 

[Tarrou]

This is the point, for me. He's statistically the best ball-winning high work-rate DM out there, and at 23 basically at the best possible age to buy a player - no longer young or unproven but still with 7 to 10 years of top level football in him. Compared to other midfield sales this summer, it's good value.

PSG are not selling because there's anything wrong with him, and both his game-time and stats from last season back that up. They're selling because they want a different type of midfielder instead. Some on here might also want that different, DLP type player. But clearly Ineos do not, because they're going for Ugarte. And there's no risk of them not understanding the kind of player he is, it's clear as crystal. My nan could tell you the type of player he is.

how are you making this determination?

we know he was dropped from the team because the manager wasn't happy with his performances.. so what else is there?

 

[Ekeke]

Can’t help but feel this signing has red flags written all over it.

A player with obvious flaws, wanted by the majority of the cafe no matter the price as deemed the missing piece of the puzzle, with anyone expressing doubts shouted down by the masses. Eerily similar to the threads we had on Sancho, Antony, Di Maria, Lukaku, Maguire etc etc

Hope he turns out to be a far better signing then any of them were. We clearly need at least one more midfielder and a successful season might depend on him hitting the ground running.

I dont remember anyone being against the Sancho signing. In fact there were people saying we should pay £120 million for him half a season before we signed him for what seemed like a reasonable price. Di Maria had just had a man of the match performance in the champions league final. Lukaku I certainly give you there were many doubters. Maguire a few

He's a player not like any of those as he's defensive. Even with Maguire the hype came from him play LCB in a 3 for England where he would bring the ball out of defence - ergo the hype was for what he'd bring to us going forward.

Ugarte is a straight ball winner. As a ball winner he doesnt really have flaws. He just has flaws if you want him to be something else than that

 

[Robertd0803]

We bought Di Maria for 59.6 mil and sold to PSG for 44.3mil!

It was reported at the time that we hadnt activated some of the add ons in Di Marias contract because he was only here 5 minutes so we didnt pay the full 59 mil iirc so pretty much broke even on that one.

 

[giggs-beckham]

This isn't some new method Ineos have introduced to world football. United and every club have been doing this forever. Fees are usually amortized over several years. There are some rare cases where there's a release clause that needs to be paid in full, or when the selling club insists on a lot of money upfront, but other than that, most signings' fees are paid in installments over several years.

OK I know it's not new. But people say, for example, £50m spread over 5 years is a good deal. 5 players at 50m each spread equally over 5 years is 50m a season!? Maybe I'm missing something (probably) spread out over a longer period of time your spend would increase by 10m and drop by 10m as a payment term ended. The figures aren't as round as that obviously, my mind just struggles to see the advantage.

 

[Robertd0803]

I'll be shocked if we aren't in for him when he leaves Palace.

Ill be disgusted if not. Sadly every team that takes itself seriously will be in for him so its not going to be easy. Start talking to Palace now and do the groundwork.

 

[crossy1686]

I mean, the situation changes a little if the fee doesn’t need to be paid until next year

It doesn’t. The fee is apparently the issue, United don’t value him at €60m. Next season he’ll have one year less on his contract and supposedly won’t play much this season. If he’s not worth €60m now, he’s not worth €60m in 12 months.

What I suspect could be happening is United are purposely not willing to meet the asking price because they’re trying to move Sancho or someone else in PSG’s way. A case of “we can’t afford that, but if you like this player maybe we can do a couple of deals?"

 

[Tarrou]

Ill be disgusted if not. Sadly every team that takes itself seriously will be in for him so its not going to be easy. Start talking to Palace now and do the groundwork.

steady on he's a decent young midfielder not a prime Modric

 

[Alvaro Maestre]

He's Under a lot of pressure.

Nah, for the media, he's the second coming after Pep.

 

[Highfather_24]

In other words even if someone like Wharton is signed next summer, that still leaves Ugarte in a position to play a lot of minutes over the following seasons. Because we still won't have that many options in midfield.

Does it make sense to buy Ugarte this summer for 50M+ and then drop 80-100M for Wharton next summer, when they play the same position? Seems less likely with the loan with obligation talks, considering we will start paying for Ugarte from next summer.

Considering we will have Mainoo, Mount, Collyer and Bruno fighting for the other 2 spots.

 

[pacifictheme]

Feels like a lot of doom and gloom in here but for me this signing will allow us to use different sensible and exciting combos in midfield without saying the name mctominay.

Being able to rest and rotate players and even choose tactically will be great, rather than just hoping someone can do a job.

 

[Hammondo]

Nah, for the media, he's the second coming after Pep.

Is he? He's been criticized for doing nothing and being poor in the CL. I imagine he doesn't have that long left 1-2 seasons max

 

[pascell]

Can’t help but feel this signing has red flags written all over it.

A player with obvious flaws, wanted by the majority of the cafe no matter the price as deemed the missing piece of the puzzle, with anyone expressing doubts shouted down by the masses. Eerily similar to the threads we had on Sancho, Antony, Di Maria, Lukaku, Maguire etc etc

Hope he turns out to be a far better signing then any of them were. We clearly need at least one more midfielder and a successful season might depend on him hitting the ground running.

I didn't see masses claiming Antony, Lukaku and Maguire to be missing pieces of the puzzle, with Lukaku and Maguire the general consensus was quite the opposite.

With Ugarte, he's 23 and not the finished article, he's a ball winner which we need, has bundles of energy and there's potential there to work with, it's a solid signing if we make it.

 

[Rockets Redglare]

steady on he's a decent young midfielder not a prime Modric

Yeah I agree, he looks like he could be a very good player but I find he’s being massively overhyped since he was included in the England squad.

 

[bosnian_red]

Can’t help but feel this signing has red flags written all over it.

A player with obvious flaws, wanted by the majority of the cafe no matter the price as deemed the missing piece of the puzzle, with anyone expressing doubts shouted down by the masses. Eerily similar to the threads we had on Sancho, Antony, Di Maria, Lukaku, Maguire etc etc

Hope he turns out to be a far better signing then any of them were. We clearly need at least one more midfielder and a successful season might depend on him hitting the ground running.

He's definitely not the missing piece to the puzzle. But he is a quality player who gives us a lot of what we don't have, but doesn't give us a complete and properly balanced midfield yet. That'll come with more development from Mainoo and then targetting a proper deep playmaker like Wharton next summer to replace Casemiro.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

we did go for an alternative though

and they haven't lowered the price either

aside from that spot on

Who was the alternative? Do you genuinely think we put a bid in for Berge and he rejected us for Fulham?

I said we'd go back in to "see if they've lowered their asking price".

You might want to try using some basic reading skills before attempting something slightly more difficult than that in sarcasm.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Who was the alternative? Do you genuinely think we put a bid in for Berge and he rejected us for Fulham?

I said we'd go back in to "see if they've lowered their asking price".

You might want to try using some basic reading skills before attempting something slightly more difficult than that in sarcasm.

No he was an alternative, if we bid he’d have come, we looked at him and decided against it.

 

[Dan_F]

If he isn’t partially amrotized yet yes there is a reason to demand 60mil

They can demand all they like. We shouldn’t pay it. They have to take a loss on a player that didn’t perform to expectations. His value has gone down.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

No he was an alternative, if we bid he’d have come, we looked at him and decided against it.

Hence I was correct in predicting that we wouldn't actively try to sign an alternative DM. You've got to at least put a reasonable bid in to meet that criteria.

 

[Wezzaldo]

They can demand all they like. We shouldn’t pay it. They have to take a loss on a player that didn’t perform to expectations. His value has gone down.

I hate this take.

It’s not that he hasn’t performed at all. He joined PSG two days after Enrique, so obviously wasn’t his signing. The truth of the matter is that stylistically he doesn’t suit the manager and didn’t really get a crack at the whip. Doesn’t mean he performed badly or is a bad player, just that he’s not a fit.

That could be our gain as he suits our style.

 

[Tarrou]

Who was the alternative? Do you genuinely think we put a bid in for Berge and he rejected us for Fulham?

I said we'd go back in to "see if they've lowered their asking price".

You might want to try using some basic reading skills before attempting something slightly more difficult than that in sarcasm.

okay stead on mate it was just a gentle bit of pisstaking

you did really great well done

 

[Dan_F]

I hate this take.

It’s not that he hasn’t performed at all. He joined PSG two days after Enrique, so obviously wasn’t his signing. The truth of the matter is that stylistically he doesn’t suit the manager and didn’t really get a crack at the whip. Doesn’t mean he performed badly or is a bad player, just that he’s not a fit.

That could be our gain as he suits our style.

So PSG have a need to sell him because he isn’t wanted/needed. They had to pay a premium to get him due to a release clause as the club didn’t want to sell him.

I would remind PSG what price we sold them Di Maria for. It wasn’t the £59 million we paid Real.

 

[daba]

We would have been in a much better place if we opted to get him last year instead of Mount for example and not wasting time on Amrabat.

Completely. I was routing for us to sign him last summer, could have made a real difference for us (largely by just being available) and been a year into his development in the prem too. I prefer to not think about the last regime’s mistakes tbh, starts to get depressing.

 

[Adamsk7]

For all those that don’t want him or don’t want to pay the price we have to understand the market. Ugarte is a world class ball winner and he’s also got great drive dribbling from midfield. Couple that with his determination, overall great mentality and fitness availability make him a £50m player. He’s only 23 as well.
He may not be the ball playing 6 we all want but there aren’t many out there that are gettable and certainly not at £50m. At the same time we DO need a player like Ugarte in the squad that can win us the ball. This is ONE window. Ineos are clearly playing a slightly longer game than fixing everything all at once. That’s unrealistic.

I think this year is about getting the perfect mentality in. Ugarte, De Ligt, Maz, Zirkzee, Yoro all look to have top level mentality. We need fighters and winners first and foremost.

 

[Fooza]

Have we advanced the advancing talks for manual ugartosavemefromparis

 

[Foolsgold21]

Romano's latest tweet suggests we are now in the end end end game.

Will be a bit miffed if this is the full £51m that has always been the price - although i guess United have agreed to pay that as the deal is structured as a loan with obligation.

 

[GaryLifo]

I think he's what's known as a floor raising player.

He only needs to be better defensively than McTominay and Eriksen and it'll be a very good signing

 

[FrantikChicken]

Genuinely can’t believe people are moaning about this.

We’re 1 injury away from having to play Mctominay as a DM. Casemiro will be here for this season, MAYBE next season as well, meaning we’ll have to once again refresh this position very soon.

He’s a young player, highly skilled, and fairly flexible (can play alongside both Casemiro and Mainoo). He gives us a lot of flexibility and cover in a key position. I think he’s the type of player that will go a long way in allowing us to play the way we want throughout the season.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

I don’t understand where this notion comes that Ugarte can’t pass. He is going to be surprise you this season if he joins us and he will be very helpful in starting our counter attacks with his long passes from deep. We don’t have to depend on Bruno everytime, who misplaces his fair share of passes btw. He ain’t no Scholes either.

I didn't say he couldn't pass—he's actually quite good in possession. However, he's not particularly adventurous, and I believe we struggle to break down teams that employ a low block. We need someone creative, someone who can unlock a well-organized defense. With that being said, I definitely think a player like Ugarte would add value to the team. I also think our attacking quartet needs to be more clinical in front of goal and more decisive in the final third.

 

[Wezzaldo]

So PSG have a need to sell him because he isn’t wanted/needed. They had to pay a premium to get him due to a release clause as the club didn’t want to sell him.

I would remind PSG what price we sold them Di Maria for. It wasn’t the £59 million we paid Real.

They have a want, not a need. Big difference. They got him cheaper than market value.

To be fair we could debate this all day. To me his value is whatever we deem his importance to be to us.

 

[E-mal]

You are not right about Mount because he was injured for the entire season. So let's see how he does this season.

Casemiro isn't particularly good in the first phase of play either, and not press resistant, but he was still amazing for us in his first season.

What player - in your eyes - is both great in the first phase of play and great defensivelyand available on the market?

Mount is no first 11 player as long as Bruno is here and 60m on a second choice non creative player seems too expensive. He is never going to be an 8 either, so the money spent on bringing him in was not worth it. For him to prove himself he has to play first and I just can’t see a path towards being a starter for Mount.

For us to dominate games in possession we need at least two of our midfielders to be good under pressure and one to be a high volume passer, at the moment none of Ugarte, Mainoo or Bruno are high volume passers and only Maino is really good under pressure(IMO).
There are better players like the Sociedad midfielder, Kone, Bennaceer etc. To be honest I am no expert in the market but profile wise I am not convinced about Ugarte. Hopefully I am pleasantly surprised

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

I wouldn't say a player who had 37 appearances last season belongs in the "out of favour" bracket.

That was last season. Since then, PSG have made additions to the midfield as he is quite clearly ''out of favour''.

AWB made 30 apps for us last season and is no longer here as he was also out of favour.