There's already a statsbomb one that covers his impact pretty well (and with better advanced data that you generally can't get with public data)
Takes two seconds to not make yourself look like an idiot.
Above shows a comparison of Ugarte to the other "top" DM's in the league (Included Casemiro's "good" season), along with another player who could have been a potential DM target for us. Ugarte (as I said before) presses like a maniac but loses out on duels more than any of the rest of them, and isn't really going to contribute much outside of his defensive work. He's also not giving you any sort of aerial presence either, which on it's own isn't a huge deal but when mixed with him being hit or miss in 50/50's tends to raise more red flags.
Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement
- Thread starter WeePat
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You're comparing different types of players. Of course someone like Onana wins a much higher percentage of duels, because he goes in for way, way less of them, because he is a sitting midfielder, not an aggressive, pressing ball winner.
Takes two seconds to not make yourself look like an idiot.
Above shows a comparison of Ugarte to the other "top" DM's in the league (Included Casemiro's "good" season), along with another player who could have been a potential DM target for us. Ugarte (as I said before) presses like a maniac but loses out on duels more than any of the rest of them, and isn't really going to contribute much outside of his defensive work. He's also not giving you any sort of aerial presence either, which on it's own isn't a huge deal but when mixed with him being hit or miss in 50/50's tends to raise more red flags.
Ugarte:
Onana:
Of course you're going to have a much higher percentage of challenges won if you only try to tackle 1.7 dribblers per 90 instead of 4.5.
The concern with Ugarte's relatively low duel winning percentage is best put into context by these numbers:
These are the numbers for Kante at Chelsea while he was unquestionably world class and arguably the best ball winner of all time. 43% win rate. Same as Ugarte, playing the same role.
He’s not signing for Ajax, mate
So not only is he not playing and is starving. He's also left cold and naked. This is just getting worse and worse.
Yeah another good one but basically shows the same thing I was initially mentioning: he's going to run and press like a madman and is very mobile but if he struggles in those 50/50's here that aggression will turn into a liability considering he's most likely going to anchor the midfield.
We'll see! INEOS really have seemed to have earmarked him from the get go as their main man for that spot all summer so they must really have a great idea of how exactly he'll fit into the team and perform, or else it'll look not great considering we are basically going to pay sticker price.
A really uncohesive midfield, that. Would spend the majority of the game chasing after their own unforced errors.
That's the thing. I'm not saying he's a bad player and I agree he was good for Uruguay at the Copa when I watched. I wouldn't mind getting him for that price after the season he had at Sporting. But a year later, a big club in a better league is looking to move him on after just one year which in my view should lessen his value. Enrique seem to prefer Zaire-Emery to him and have already bought Neves too, so Ugarte's gametime would be even more limited. They have a bigger need to sell. If Ugarte stays there another year without playing much his value will only go down further.
I hope we stay firm and don't end up paying what they ask. It would undo the work they have done this summer in getting players in for a fair price. Before anyone brings up Yoro, I agree we overpaid there but there was a reason for it as he's a generational talent who is still young enough to count as homegrown for us in the future. Those things don't apply to Ugarte.
So we are paying the same price for Ugarte, as PSG paid for Joao Neves. Cant say I'm happy. Think we have been fleeced on this one.
So we're finally going to get a tough tackling midfielder, who's natural instinct is to win the ball back and fight for possession. It's about time !! Can't say i've enjoyed watching the opposition dance through our midfield and ride challenge after challenge. This guy plays with his heart on his sleeve, I hope his mentality translates through the team. Seems like his main role will be to win the ball back and give it to the more creative players.
My point was that football scouting has moved way beyond the stuff that we discuss on here.
Clubs have all the information in regards to a player's ability / technical / physical aspects both strengths and weaknesses.
Just this week Duncan Castles interviewed Scott McLaughlin who used to be the head scout at Chelsea. He discussed how scouting has vastly moved on from the early 1990s and now what the clubs really want, which is to understand via the scouting process the psychology of the player they are scouting. How he will fit into the group? His emotional intelligence? His adjustment period? What he brings to the group from a mental aspect So and and so forth.
Really interesting.
Takes two seconds to not make yourself look like an idiot.
Above shows a comparison of Ugarte to the other "top" DM's in the league (Included Casemiro's "good" season), along with another player who could have been a potential DM target for us. Ugarte (as I said before) presses like a maniac but loses out on duels more than any of the rest of them, and isn't really going to contribute much outside of his defensive work. He's also not giving you any sort of aerial presence either, which on it's own isn't a huge deal but when mixed with him being hit or miss in 50/50's tends to raise more red flags.
There is a little bias with this though, since you pick certain stats, but Ugarte is being bought for pressing.
Also look at age:
Onana 23
Rice 25
Rodri 28
Ugarte 23
Casemiro 32
So Rodri and Casemiro age wise are in their prime.
Onana and Ugarte have room to grow, and Rice is in a well defined system.
The question is can Ugarte to be coached to pass to carry? is he required to carry the ball?
Time will tell.
Based on highlights and the data graphs, he’s a ferocious tackler/presser who then finds the first/safest pass in possession?
Rodri shouldn't be in any comparisons to be fair as literally every player comes out worse. But you could add Berge in that graph as he's another who we were linked with. I'd rather prefer player comparisons from Fbref though. That gives more accurate reflection to me. Saying that, even from Fbref, Ugarte appears the same. Aggressive ball winner, who more often that not plays it safe.
Takes two seconds to not make yourself look like an idiot.
Above shows a comparison of Ugarte to the other "top" DM's in the league (Included Casemiro's "good" season), along with another player who could have been a potential DM target for us. Ugarte (as I said before) presses like a maniac but loses out on duels more than any of the rest of them, and isn't really going to contribute much outside of his defensive work. He's also not giving you any sort of aerial presence either, which on it's own isn't a huge deal but when mixed with him being hit or miss in 50/50's tends to raise more red flags.
Nah, as far as I know, that site picks those stats, we can't. That's why I'd rather prefer Fbref but unfortunately they don't provide graphs that are easy on the eye.
You do realise this isn't how clubs scout a player? Just by his metrics and eye test? They look at the person via a holistic process.
Takes two seconds to not make yourself look like an idiot.
Above shows a comparison of Ugarte to the other "top" DM's in the league (Included Casemiro's "good" season), along with another player who could have been a potential DM target for us. Ugarte (as I said before) presses like a maniac but loses out on duels more than any of the rest of them, and isn't really going to contribute much outside of his defensive work. He's also not giving you any sort of aerial presence either, which on it's own isn't a huge deal but when mixed with him being hit or miss in 50/50's tends to raise more red flags.
Then it's just lazy to keep posting it with that title months later and after games which are a better basis to assess a player. A group game against a team you are beating easily vs a knockout game against better quality opposition: which one do you bring your A game to? Which one requires full focus and not making mistakes?Or... it's not a conspiracy and it was posted a couple of days after the Brazil game, and before the Colombia game had even taken place?
Players who go in to a lot of duels also lose a lot of duels. It doesn't have to be bias or cherrypicking. Ugarte's statline looks like this:
Casemiro's defensive numbers for 22/23 where he was arguably our best player looked very similar. If you're that aggressive about going into challenges, you're going to lose plenty of them no matter how good you are.
I'd expect the duels to get better/more controlled but the passing to be safer and more conservative. If the intention is to see which player we can expect for United in the PL I want the two knockout games, not a bunch of dead rubbers (inc. already being Ligue 1 champions) and a friendly.
He also looks very serious in most pics of him, like he's seriously considering beating the shite out of you. This is the kind of midfielder I like.
I prefer YouTube comps with terrible music to all these graphs.
People said we dont have the money to buy Joao Neves, yet we ended up paying the same for Ugarte, basically funding PSG's transfer and accepting their reject. We have been finessed
We need a Ugarte profile a lot more than Neves
Is this close to happening?
To be honest we don't need Jao Neves, hes decent but completely overhyped. Another Renato Sanches or someone like Jao Felix waiting to happen.
We'll see what we pay, but considering they bought him for that price, up front, this time a year ago i don't think it's too out of the question we pay a considerable sum plus bonuses to the total of €60m.
Considering the end of the window is soon, yes it is.
Rodri is just absurd. Should remove him just to normalise the graphic.
Takes two seconds to not make yourself look like an idiot.
Above shows a comparison of Ugarte to the other "top" DM's in the league (Included Casemiro's "good" season), along with another player who could have been a potential DM target for us. Ugarte (as I said before) presses like a maniac but loses out on duels more than any of the rest of them, and isn't really going to contribute much outside of his defensive work. He's also not giving you any sort of aerial presence either, which on it's own isn't a huge deal but when mixed with him being hit or miss in 50/50's tends to raise more red flags.
Him and Martinez are gonna make for such a fiery 1-2 punch
just need a big signing for CM. If this is who we want, get it done. Shifting the deadwood and bringing this guy in would complete a decent window, all things considered.
Remember this is just the start as well. That is how you need to look at it.
To me, it's not even an issue. It's just something to accept with a player than is so aggressive with going into challenges.
As I posted earlier in this page, Kante's average winrate of duels was the same, and he might be the best of that type of midfielder ever.
Rodri arguably isn't a DM though, if you look at his stats. He plays there but City just dominate possession so he doesn't have to defend.
Brilliant ball player, but he fits City perfectly, if he was at Dortmund or somewhere it would be a different story.
City just are brilliant getting the right players for how they want to play, and it elevates those players to a new level.
Compare Rodri to Frankie De Jong, who isn't a DM.
Is Rodri really a DM? no.
It most definitely will.
really poor negotiating if we're paying almost what they paid
I'd have walked away personally but then we're so short in midfield I guess we had our hands tied
I'd have walked away personally but then we're so short in midfield I guess we had our hands tied
Hawkins says they have lowered demands but not by how much.
Rodri is, he just doesn't have to do it much at City now. But yeah, he's not part of any discussion unless compared to the likes of Busquets, Redondo and so forth.Rodri arguably isn't a DM though, if you look at his stats. He plays there but City just dominate possession so he doesn't have to defend.
Brilliant ball player, but he fits City perfectly, if he was at Dortmund or somewhere it would be a different story.
City just are brilliant getting the right players for how they want to play, and it elevates those players to a new level.
Compare Rodri to Frankie De Jong, who isn't a DM.
Is Rodri really a DM? no.
Depends on the terms, I guess £51m over 5 years is a very different consideration than £51m up front, nice to know the specifics before judging
I am biased indeed. I'm biased by how calm I know I always feel about things with him in midfield and the fact seeing that clip doesn't feel quite the same.
Their starting point was ~€70m if I remember correctly so that they can make a profit, but they've now gone down to €60m (according to Le Parisien) so that they can break even on the player.
Neves is better than him at almost everything. Levels above on him on the ball, and almost as good off it. Only thing Ugarte has over him is height, and Ugarte is not even good aerially, so that's useless.
vs
That's just sour grapes, he was everyone's dream midfield signing for the entire year
Great comparison. FDJ is genuinely class as well.Rodri arguably isn't a DM though, if you look at his stats. He plays there but City just dominate possession so he doesn't have to defend.
Brilliant ball player, but he fits City perfectly, if he was at Dortmund or somewhere it would be a different story.
City just are brilliant getting the right players for how they want to play, and it elevates those players to a new level.
Compare Rodri to Frankie De Jong, who isn't a DM.
Is Rodri really a DM? no.
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