Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement

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How is a negative £150m net spend not bad when we got to contend with PSR and FFP?
We can spend about £150M net per year on transfer fees and still meet PSR guidance.

  • 2023 revenues were around £680M
  • We might spend around £300M a year on wages
  • PSR is going to require spending no more than 70% of revenue on squad costs, meaning max squad cost would be £476M
  • With that math we could amortize £176M and comply with PSR
Rough math, but £150M is a comfortable number for us and near what our fee amortization was this past year. It's sustainable given our revenues.
 
Yep, I've always thought the same. It's such a knee-jerk comment to a good Casemiro performance. Of course we need Ugarte. We need him desperately.
This was Fulham we just played. He’s capable of a good display here or there or being okay in general but I think we’ll see us lose control and put out in chaotic performances as we did last season like last season in the long run.
 
We can spend about £150M net per year on transfer fees and still meet PSR guidance.

  • 2023 revenues were around £680M
  • We might spend around £300M a year on wages
  • PSR is going to require spending no more than 70% of revenue on squad costs, meaning max squad cost would be £476M
  • With that math we could amortize £176M and comply with PSR
Rough math, but £150M is a comfortable number for us and near what our fee amortization was this past year. It's sustainable given our revenues.

Thanks for explaining this. I always did wonder about the maths on our spending with PSR.
 
We can spend about £150M net per year on transfer fees and still meet PSR guidance.

  • 2023 revenues were around £680M
  • We might spend around £300M a year on wages
  • PSR is going to require spending no more than 70% of revenue on squad costs, meaning max squad cost would be £476M
  • With that math we could amortize £176M and comply with PSR
Rough math, but £150M is a comfortable number for us and near what our fee amortization was this past year. It's sustainable given our revenues.
Thanks, I never bothered digging into PSR.
 
So why in the big games when we would play the better teams that would pressure him more and exploit his weaknesses more?
Honestly, I don't really know the guy but from what I gather on this thread (perhaps wrongly!), he's fairly press resistant as can dribble well and is very safe, even if unadventurous with his passing. Added to his renowned defensive ability, one would think these attributes should make him a good contributor in those sorts of games.
 
We can spend about £150M net per year on transfer fees and still meet PSR guidance.

  • 2023 revenues were around £680M
  • We might spend around £300M a year on wages
  • PSR is going to require spending no more than 70% of revenue on squad costs, meaning max squad cost would be £476M
  • With that math we could amortize £176M and comply with PSR
Rough math, but £150M is a comfortable number for us and near what our fee amortization was this past year. It's sustainable given our revenues.
Thanks, it's pretty clear now.
I think one of the main issue is, we are still due lot of instalment payments from our last few year purchases and that could cripple our spending.

Scott, Pellestri and Hannibal looks like certain but I really hope we could clear Sancho,Lendelof too.
It seems Lindelof played an injury out of nothing to engineer free transfer next year, otherwise we could have saved 7M on his salary and 10M earnings on transfer.

This whole PSR guidance is really good and hope we give high wages to players who are worth it in future rather paying 250K to Mount or 300K to casemiro who is 30+. If we apply PSR sensibly I think we can only get better.
 
Kanté was a great player, Ugarte can therefore be a great player. You have to surround him well, that's all.
 
I just want this to be completed so I can play a new FM season with the reworked team. Is that too much to ask? FFS Ashworth, get on it.
 
Saw an 'every touch' video vs Newcastle and can't say I was impressed with his ability on the ball. He's clearly very mobile though, I can see why we'd want him.
 
Totally agreed on principle. The practical issue is to find the right alternative, so as to not get stuck with deadwood later on (that ultimately would cost the club more than just paying slightly more for Ugarte now). Or worse, ending up with no alternative at all, relying in Casemiro/Collyer/someone like Amrabat on loan for yet another miserable season, missing out on CL, etc. just to save a few million on Ugarte.

I genuinely hope Ineos has a plan. The Branthwaite/Yoro/De Ligt moves gave me a lot more confidence that they do. Still, it’s rather a dangerous game to play.
We can only hope there is a plan, but at the very least, the club has to draw a line on the unreasonable demands, and I am sure PSG will budge as they have put themselves in a difficult position with the player, by not including him in friendlies and the league opener, Bayern budged on their De Ligt €50M minimum plus add-ons valuation, PSG will have to budge as they will need to recoup some money for player the manager does not fancy and only one club made an offer, I will understand if there is a bidding war going but there is none but us willing to pay anything of value so they will have to accept it.

On alternatives, again I can only hope there is a plan, especially if the club manages to sell Mctom, they will allow for the club to get a quality option.
 
Saw an 'every touch' video vs Newcastle and can't say I was impressed with his ability on the ball. He's clearly very mobile though, I can see why we'd want him.
Was curious so I just watched, and he had a very poor game. The compilations I've seen have been a lot better. Watch his performance in the SF vs Dortmund or any of his games in the Copa.
 
Kanté was a great player, Ugarte can therefore be a great player. You have to surround him well, that's all.
Agreed. Chelsea won the league with a midfield of Kante and Matic not that long ago, just as a point of reference. Neither were ever world-class passers, and in fact the ball-playing came from David Luiz, a centre back. We have two centre backs with potentially world-class ball-playing ability in Martinez and De Ligt, so I think we can afford one more functional number 6.
 
Agreed. Chelsea won the league with a midfield of Kante and Matic not that long ago, just as a point of reference. Neither were ever world-class passers, and in fact the ball-playing came from David Luiz, a centre back. We have two centre backs with potentially world-class ball-playing ability in Martinez and De Ligt, so I think we can afford one more functional number 6.
That was before teams changed their style. They was very defensive under conte. No one wins the league now by playing defensive football. Guardiolas style comes out on top all the time.
 
Honestly, I don't really know the guy but from what I gather on this thread (perhaps wrongly!), he's fairly press resistant as can dribble well and is very safe, even if unadventurous with his passing. Added to his renowned defensive ability, one would think these attributes should make him a good contributor in those sorts of games.
I was referring to Casemiro.
 
Saw an 'every touch' video vs Newcastle and can't say I was impressed with his ability on the ball. He's clearly very mobile though, I can see why we'd want him.

We know he needs to work on that side of his game but still desperately want us to sign him
 
I believe that this will happen as long as we move a couple on and agree the right price / structure. We look to be focused on this transfer. The only alternative I can see is Rabiot on a free - not a like for like but with no transfer fee, a cheaper alternative (overall) providing signing on fee and wages aren’t stupid.

I expect this to happen before the end of the window and although we’d all like it done ASAP, that likely means paying more than we’d like to, so I’m willing to see Ineos stretch it out another week. We have to be stronger in the market and waiting should bring the power towards us in negotiations.

So annoys me to see Rabiot as an alternative to Ugarte/Berge when we should be thinking McTominay, Pellistri, Eriksen out with Ugarte/Berge and Rabiot in. There is just zero noise about us looking to sign two midfielders though.
 
So annoys me to see Rabiot as an alternative to Ugarte/Berge when we should be thinking McTominay, Pellistri, Eriksen out with Ugarte/Berge and Rabiot in. There is just zero noise about us looking to sign two midfielders though.
I want us to sign two but if the second is Rabiot then I’d prefer just the one.
 
Agreed. Chelsea won the league with a midfield of Kante and Matic not that long ago, just as a point of reference. Neither were ever world-class passers, and in fact the ball-playing came from David Luiz, a centre back. We have two centre backs with potentially world-class ball-playing ability in Martinez and De Ligt, so I think we can afford one more functional number 6.

Matic was a lovely passer of the ball.
 
Would be a great deal if we can offer Sancho on loan for a year to reduce the fee paid to PSG for Ugarte

Gets us Ugarte at a reasonable price
Gets Sancho’s wages off the bill
And we could hopefully include an obligation to buy if appearance targets were met

It enables PSG

To get a fee for Ugarte
To get Ugarte wages off their books
Effectively a free loan of Sancho (if wages can be agreed)

Makes sense for all parties. Assuming PSG have any interest in Sancho of course
 
Would be a great deal if we can offer Sancho on loan for a year to reduce the fee paid to PSG for Ugarte

Gets us Ugarte at a reasonable price
Gets Sancho’s wages off the bill
And we could hopefully include an obligation to buy if appearance targets were met

It enables PSG

To get a fee for Ugarte
To get Ugarte wages off their books
Effectively a free loan of Sancho (if wages can be agreed)

Makes sense for all parties. Assuming PSG have any interest in Sancho of course
If PSG is indeed interested in Sancho, any deal involving Ugarte/Sancho would make sense, be it permanent transfer or loan, no matter what permutation really. The fact that it hasn’t happened means PSG is likely not interested while also not ready to move down from their Ugarte valuation. Ah well.
 
I've never watched him. Sounds like he'll help defending open spaces and get stuck in and win the ball near our box etc.

But his profile means we are likely to still play hot potatoe with the ball in midfield.

I'm of the camp where control in the midfield is top priority. I prefer technical players with passing range and a sense for tempo. This is why I'm not as big a Bruno fan as so many United fans.
 
If PSG is indeed interested in Sancho, any deal involving Ugarte/Sancho would make sense, be it permanent transfer or loan, no matter what permutation really. The fact that it hasn’t happened means PSG is likely not interested while also not ready to move down from their Ugarte valuation. Ah well.

Yeah still feels very much a stalemate so far
 
Its definitely sounding like there has been some movement on this today, hopefully we get it done in time for Brighton on Saturday
 
I just want this to be completed so I can play a new FM season with the reworked team. Is that too much to ask? FFS Ashworth, get on it.
Tried getting back into FM this year but gave up within a few game weeks because the squad and non-playing staff needed too much re-work :lol:

It really laid bare the issues with our squad building, dressing room and so on, it probably increased my empathy towards ETH especially after the injuries.
 
"Won't loose out financially" could imply we pay the current book value of the player (~50M EUR). Not that they'll recoup everything they paid for him.
Which is what we’ve been wanting to pay all along. €50m = ~£43m? Let’s get this done soon so he can ready for Pool.
 
"Won't loose out financially" could imply we pay the current book value of the player (~50M EUR). Not that they'll recoup everything they paid for him.
And that's more than fair. Win-win for all parties. They win more financially, but whatever, we really need to bring in someone for the tactically very important 6 role.
 
We know he needs to work on that side of his game but still desperately want us to sign him

Just think it is a little odd that Utd fans were (correctly) hoping to get of rid of limited players like AWB and McT but then fixate on Ugarte when he is really quite limited in his all round game.

However Ten Hag is not interested in controlling games through ball possession, it is all about transitions, winning the ball and then releasing quick forward passes, that is where he can help Utd. His lack of finesse is going to frustrate at times.

Between him and Cas Utd should lead world football in sliding tackles, by god does he love going to ground.
 
Just think it is a little odd that Utd fans were (correctly) hoping to get of rid of limited players like AWB and McT but then fixate on Ugarte when he is really quite limited in his all round game.

However Ten Hag is not interested in controlling games through ball possession, it is all about transitions, winning the ball and then releasing quick forward passes, that is where he can help Utd. His lack of finesse is going to frustrate at times.

Between him and Cas Utd should lead world football in sliding tackles, by god does he love going to ground.
It's not so much that Wan Bissaka and McTominay were limited and more they just aren't generally good enough? McTominays best trait is getting shots off in the attacking 3rd but defensively he was mediocre and on the ball he didn't do much. You don't have to be an elite playmaker, you need a system with players who are good enough in what they are being asked to do. Ugarte is an elite ball winner, reliably press resistant and a good but safe passer. He has big potential as a ball winning midfielder. That doesn't mean he isn't good enough for a top side by any means, it just means he has a specific role that we'd need to use him in and it happens to be one we need.
 
Just think it is a little odd that Utd fans were (correctly) hoping to get of rid of limited players like AWB and McT but then fixate on Ugarte when he is really quite limited in his all round game.

However Ten Hag is not interested in controlling games through ball possession, it is all about transitions, winning the ball and then releasing quick forward passes, that is where he can help Utd. His lack of finesse is going to frustrate at times.

Between him and Cas Utd should lead world football in sliding tackles, by god does he love going to ground.
Can't wait for this 23 year old to improve with us and end the myth that he is a limited player (for a destroyer). I'd say it's better to buy such a player for the DM role than to persist with limited but hardworking players for the the 8, 10 or false 9 roles.
 
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