Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement

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Midfield is crying out for a player like Ugarte, out of possession especially and there is definitely a place for Sander Berge too.

Ugarte compliments Mainoo and allows him to be more free flowing.
 
I've just analysed the Fulham game and Casemiro is even more important than I thought to our system. We definitely need to bring another player in who can do similar things, if not better, in the build up and in defence. Ugarte is basically his regen. The main trade-offs are aerial ability and experience in exchange for press resistance (and due to age, energy + some pace).

This is one where we may need to overpay unfortunately. Or find a better target. It is also a role where I can see the new signing needing a couple of weeks to learn the patterns of play and triggers. So even if we sign Ugarte today I don't think we'll see him feature heavily till mid Sep after the int'l break.
 
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Pronewbie said:
I've just analysed the Fulham game and Casemiro is even more important than I thought to our system. We definitely need to bring another player in who can do similar things, if not better, in the build up and in defence. Ugarte is basically his regen. The main trade-offs are aerial ability and experience in exchange for press resistance (and due to age, energy + some pace).

This is one where we may need to overpay unfortunately. Or find a better target. It is also a role where I can see the new signing needing a couple of weeks to learn the patterns of play and triggers. So even if we sign Ugarte today I don't think we'll see him feature heavily till mid Sep after the int'l break.
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Don't mind if he doesn't get up to speed until after that international break, just want to get him through the doors ideally this week but feels like it could drag on.
 
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Rojofiam said:
I can guarantee you Onana is way better than Ugarte.
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It's not just a question of 1v1. He's an excellent player but is Onana, Mainoo, Bruno better than Ugarte, Mainoo, Bruno? I don't think so. If anything, he's a like for like replacement for Mainoo in the squad. His ball carrying / initial burst is great, his technique, switch of play and creativity are decent but I don't see him as a sitter in a 3 man midfield.

I think he pairs really well with a deeper lying playmaker whose defensive abilities aren't the best. e.g., a Jorginho + Onana would be a great combination. Villa are using Tielemans in that deeper lying playmaker role, so let's see how it goes. He'll probably be good for them.

What we need is some additional defensive steel in the midfield because there's enough creativity, goal scoring and ball carrying with Bruno and Mainoo. Ideally that player has great positional sense, can receive the ball in tricky situations where they're going to be pressed and find solutions. They should also know when to go aggressive and chase the ball and when to defend the space. Ugarte doesn't check all the boxes. I guess other than Rodri no one else in the world checks all those boxes but I think Ugarte is a better fit for us than an Onana.
 
Reds go marching on said:
Midfield is crying out for a player like Ugarte, out of possession especially and there is definitely a place for Sander Berge too.

Ugarte compliments Mainoo and allows him to be more free flowing.
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Ederson compliments Mainoo more, with those 2 we’d be far more likely to dominate possession. Atalanta signed a new midfielder this week, so maybe there’s a potential move on the cards for him? Who knows but getting Scotty and Sancho out are very important to any further squad building this summer.
 
SoCross said:
We need to sell to buy right? If McT doesn’t move on, no Ugarte.
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Nah I think the board knows we can't wait on a sale with there only being 12 days left in the window. Supposedly Mendes is involved now trying to get it done. Think a loan with a obligation to buy is probably being hashed out but we are saying 35m that can raise to 50m with add-ons and PSG want a flat 50m-60m
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
But good to see Ineos know this?

If we can get him for 40m or less, buy… if not, look at alternatives… if no value there, wait til next season. All seems planned and calm.

As opposed to the morons we used to have who did stupid things like paying over Fellainis release clause
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I don't think that we should bow at PSG's demands however I wouldn't go as far as to wait for next season. Our CM needs immediate strengthening with at least 1 player providing the legwork Casemiro can't provide anymore. Surely INEOS could find a DM on a reasonable price if needed
 
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SoCross said:
We need to sell to buy right? If McT doesn’t move on, no Ugarte.
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Not necessarily specifically McTominay, if we sell Sancho or maybe even Eriksen or Lindelof that might be enough. I don't know if we have to sell to buy, but Ineos do seem reluctant to proceed with any further outlay without a further sale.

Also worth pointing out that's not the only reason this hasn't been done; we've clearly been telling the media we think PSG are taking the piss with their valuation and need to be flexible for a deal to be done. Which I like in principle, but it's a risky move if we don't have an alternative lined up.
 
RDCR07 said:
How are we a positive 100m net spend?
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Well according to reports (taken from sky), we have £63.9m sales (although for some reason they have the VDB fee way high at £7.6m) and £155.2m purchases, so would actually be closer on £90m net, adjust for VDB and that is near enough £100m, pretty good that for our current business
 
didz said:
I'm assuming you're intelligent enough to know that's an extremely poor argument.
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Yep, just can't be bothered with the ongoing, "well the clubs professional scouting outfit, football management, director of football and whatever positions there are that in the club involved in player purchasing are stupid. Cause obviously Onana is a better player than Ugarte. From my armchair and stat comparison sited I can tell you that".

"I gotta go now as I'll be late for school".
 
Ugarte is certainly the perfect profile for what we need right now. It's foolish to say he's not a good passer, as similar to Casemiro he has just not needed that skill at PSG where it's basically a one league team.

Watch him closely at Copa or even other CL matches and his high degree of press resistance and a favored over the top looped pass to the wingers is very evident. Sure, he does not play between the lines in terms of vertical passes that much but there is more than one way to beat the press.

His energy levels are also something we need, especially next to mainoo who has trouble covering that much ground. Besides that, in mainoo, bruno, amad, Martinez, Dalot and shaw we have more than enough ability to break lines.

We need this guy to do exactly what he is so skilled at. Cover ground, win the ball back high up and keep control via chaos.
 
dinostar77 said:
Yep, just can't be bothered with the ongoing, "well the clubs professional scouting outfit, football management, director of football and whatever positions there are that in the club involved in player purchasing are stupid. Cause obviously Onana is a better player than Ugarte. From my armchair and stat comparison sited I can tell you that".

"I gotta go now as I'll be late for school".
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It's Sunday.
 
Zed 101 said:
Well according to reports (taken from sky), we have £63.9m sales (although for some reason they have the VDB fee way high at £7.6m) and £155.2m purchases, so would actually be closer on £90m net, adjust for VDB and that is near enough £100m, pretty good that for our current business
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Sky inflate fees with all the add ons included, that's why vdB is the higher figure.
 
Pronewbie said:
I've just analysed the Fulham game and Casemiro is even more important than I thought to our system. We definitely need to bring another player in who can do similar things, if not better, in the build up and in defence. Ugarte is basically his regen. The main trade-offs are aerial ability and experience in exchange for press resistance (and due to age, energy + some pace).
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I agree with your overall point, but not fully with the bolded part. Casemiro also adds physicality to our midfield, and Ugarte although no lightweight, is not that level. Also can you see Ugarte pulling off the throughball to Bruno in the first half, or those long probing passes Casemiro does? I dont. His aerial ability is also much better like you mentioned.

Ugarte however is a better ball winner and adds more energy. Not sure if the tradeoffs are worth it, and ideally I would want an upgrade to Casemiro on all these metrics, because these are things our midfield lacks(aerial ability, physicality, passing from deep etc).

I see a lot of people mentioning the likes of Bruno, Mount and Amad saying we have progressive passers but those players are not involved in the first phase. Take Martinez out and our buildup severely weakens.
 
I was hoping he'd be available against Liverpool, so I can watch him shit on Salah and Luis Diaz, the cnuts.
 
dinostar77 said:
Yep, just can't be bothered with the ongoing, "well the clubs professional scouting outfit, football management, director of football and whatever positions there are that in the club involved in player purchasing are stupid. Cause obviously Onana is a better player than Ugarte. From my armchair and stat comparison sited I can tell you that".

"I gotta go now as I'll be late for school".
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But then we can close this whole forum down for good, no? Because everyone is an armchair expert on here technically. The only difference in my opinions is that they're often not popular with other armchair experts.

What if we sign a player that the masses on here will not be happy with, like Sander Berge? Will then the scouts and directors be stupid?
 
Highfather_24 said:
I agree with your overall point, but not fully with the bolded part. Casemiro also adds physicality to our midfield, and Ugarte although no lightweight, is not that level. Also can you see Ugarte pulling off the throughball to Bruno in the first half, or those long probing passes Casemiro does? I dont. His aerial ability is also much better like you mentioned.

Ugarte however is a better ball winner and adds more energy. Not sure if the tradeoffs are worth it, and ideally I would want an upgrade to Casemiro on all these metrics, because these are things our midfield lacks(aerial ability, physicality, passing from deep etc).

I see a lot of people mentioning the likes of Bruno, Mount and Amad saying we have progressive passers but those players are not involved in the first phase. Take Martinez out and our buildup severely weakens.
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I think Casemiro's physicality has waned a fair bit with age especially when he has to do a fair bit of running before a duel. It's still good in short bursts like during set pieces but Ugarte is more athletic. Both are incredible at interceptions but Casemiro's is like a magnet possibly due to experience.

Ugarte's long and mid range passing accuracy is close to 99th percentile yeah? I think he can do a decent approximation of it at the very least - saw it a bit during the Copa and thought it was fluke till I saw the fbref stats - but he must be given time to familiarise himself with the system and his teammates so he knows instinctively what to do. Casemiro also took some time to adapt. Ugarte has the advantage of being press resistant to open up more angles.

This is where I think we have a unique player who is limited in a possession-based system but can do what ETH wants. I love arbitrages like this for the right price. The question really should be on the other midfielders to step up, and not place all responsibility on the DM. We are not a possession-based team requiring that sort of DM.

Let's see how we build up against Brighton and Liverpool I reckon our system and 1st choice players are technically more than capable to make your concerns a moot point. They are valid in the framework of a possession-based team of which we're clearly not. Also, Bruno and Diallo are active in the 1st phase. When we build up slow I've seen us in a 3-6-1 shape in the 1st phase with the wingers dropping back, especially when it's the LB playing in the middle of the 3. Rashford/Bruno drops deep to offer an outlet on the left. When there's any quick break potential we are in more of a 3-4-3 shape with maybe only the false 9 inactive, but that may just be a Mount thing.

For the Fulham match building out from the back wasn't an issue outside of our nervy first 15mins.
 
I don’t know if one good game can really be described as “form”.
 
If anything the last match showed United/EtH do have options off the bench in Attack and Defence...but very little in Midfield. It's McTom and them you are into Collyer/Eriksen.

Manchester United should have more options in the squad than that! so Ugarte (or an alternative) is still needed 100%.
 
Berbaclass said:
Been thinking this myself. On current form would he even start?

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It's a long old season. Haven't seen enough of Ugarte specifically to comment there but think we need at least one option in midfield (while hopefully getting a couple out - Hannibal, Eriksen and/or McTominay).

I would be very surprised if we don't sign a midfielder before the deadline.
 
Berbaclass said:
Been thinking this myself. On current form would he even start?

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The problem is what if Casemiro’s form doesn’t last and he’s only capable of producing performances like this now and again? It’s a big risk making a decision like that based off a couple of performances at the start of the season. Who knows what he’ll be like when we start playing two games a week and the workload gets ramped up. I would hate for the window to shut and we realise Casemiro’s resurgence was only a little patch of form and now we have to rely on a second rate option like Berge or Amrabat because we tried to do things on the cheap.
 
RuudTom83 said:
If anything the last match showed United/EtH do have options off the bench in Attack and Defence...but very little in Midfield. It's McTom and them you are into Collyer/Eriksen.

Manchester United should have more options in the squad than that! so Ugarte (or an alternative) is still needed 100%.
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Well, exactly. It's a ludicrous suggestion from Laurens. Casemiro cannot play two games a week anymore and Mainoo shouldn't play 50+ games this season as it would burn him out. We need other options in those two midfield positions.
 
Berbaclass said:
Been thinking this myself. On current form would he even start?

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Despite his good form in the last couple of games, Casemiro is 32 years old and doesnt have the legs to play every game, making Ugarte signing absolutely critical. Ugarte could be the difference between United challenging for the league title and merely scrambling for a top four finish and I am dead serious about that. Ugartes energy, tenacity and ball winning ability remind me of Kante at Leicester.
 
ShinjiNinja26 said:
The problem is what if Casemiro’s form doesn’t last and he’s only capable of producing performances like this now and again? It’s a big risk making a decision like that based off a couple of performances at the start of the season. Who knows what he’ll be like when we start playing two games a week and the workload gets ramped up. I would hate for the window to shut and we realise Casemiro’s resurgence was only a little patch of form and now we have to rely on a second rate option like Berge or Amrabat because we tried to do things on the cheap.
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Everything is a risk mate. What if we spend 65 million on Ugarte and he's not good enough.
 
Berbaclass said:
Been thinking this myself. On current form would he even start?

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Yes because we're fecked if he's suspended, injured or hits a poor run of form, which he has a track record of, and consequences we've suffered from. At this age he can't be playing 2 - 3 games per week regularly. We do not have the luxury of sitting out if we want to secure a CL spot, especially when you consider that our backups for the 8 position are also lacking in quality if they are required to start regularly over an extended period.

A DM other than Frenkie will also need time to adapt to Ten Hag ball.
 
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