Yeah looks like he will always put everything into it
Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement
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Yeah looks like he will always put everything into it
I mean that's hilariously inaccurate, Rice at 20 was basically a water carrier at West Ham. Wharton made the England Squad and also instantly became Palace's most important midfielder helping completely turn their season around and has already displayed far better instincts in progressing and controlling games than Rice ever did at that age.
Pretty much.
He improves us straight away in an area and skillset we desperately need to improve, but you need to comfortable with the idea that he'll just be a squad player in three or so years (i.e. the point at which the owners hope to have us really challenging for titles again).
At 23 years old and with some very high-level strengths in his game, there's absolutely no problem buying him with that projection in mind. But it needs to be for the right price to be good value over that period.
If you look at Arsenal's rebuild as an example, a comparison (in terms of the profile of transfer rather than profile of player) might be something like signing Thomas Partey in 2020. Immediately improved them, was part of their strongest eleven for around three years and helped them progress up the table. But by the time they were challenging for the title last year he was a squad player making 10 or so league starts, having been upgraded on with the Rice signing. Arsenal are probably perfectly happy with that return from the £45m they spent on Partey, but you also wouldn't want to have paid much more than that.
We need him, with him its a 10/10 for me, next window will be so much easier with the foundations laid.
toned down for sure but i also think it was because he lost his legs...don't know if that was from playing too much, having to defend too much space on his own, not sure but clearly he struggled the second half of the season badly
when i was watching the match i saw his reaction but it wasn't until they showed the replay you could tell exactly what happened so it was certainly amusingActually you can't. What's on display for all to see is his left hand just holding/pressing against him but no real movement, while he is *supposedly* pinching him on the right side but out of sight.
That's what made the replays all the more bemusing because you kept looking for whatever he did on that left side and then saw Muñoz pointing at the right of his ribs, like the typical diver that makes a meal of something and holds the complete wrong part of their bodyFeck all VAR could ever feed back against that ref decision.
That's no good either. With the amount of spaces we leave in midfield, a player lunging for a tackle and getting left in the dust, is the last thing we need. Hell, that's what we have been criticising Casemiro for.
We need a DM who can be positionally astute, and cover spaces, shield the defence. Progressive passing ability is also a bonus. Ugarte doesnt tick either box it seems.
Think he might change a lot how we can setup this team
Don't understand how folks think he would be a bad signing. There is no Busquets or Rodri out there at present and what we need is someone to do the defensive work more than the creative (we have Mainoo and Bruno for that). He balances our midfield better than any of the mentioned players and will allow our front 5/6 to thrive as he stays behind cleaning things up.
His signing would also be very good for Casemiro, as he may not have the legs or the sharpness to do the solo defensive work anymore, but he is still very capable as the more progressive #8. He still has excellent passing and vision and is a goal threat, so having someone behind him freeing him from most of the defensive work might actually be the key to getting the best out of him in his remaining years.
Forward passes are the only issue, however he's not really that profile of midfielder so will need to sign someone who can offer that in January or most likely next summer.
Fofana really jumps off the page when it comes to that
Would be nice capping off the window with Ugarte and him or Rabiot if we actually manage to offload the likes of McTom and Eriksen.
The more I see posted stats the more I'm convinced they are all totally bonkers in how contradictory the messages are despite the same site and season being used.
He is a superb ball winner and defensive shield. Single-handedly demolished Argentina's entire midfield only a few months ago.
He is not a headless chicken running around and lunging into hopeless challenges. He can mistime a tackle here or there but for the most part his fouls are controlled and deliberate/tactical.
He doesn't lose or give the ball away easily, to a great extent because he focuses on that rather than Hollywood balls. He can however make the right progressive passes when a counter opportunity arises.
Basically, he is not a fecking idiot and plays to his and the team's strengths. We could use that now, next season or in five seasons, no matter how many ball-pingers and flavours of the month you may want to sign eventually.
He is a superb ball winner and defensive shield. Single-handedly demolished Argentina's entire midfield only a few months ago.
He is not a headless chicken running around and lunging into hopeless challenges. He can mistime a tackle here or there but for the most part his fouls are controlled and deliberate/tactical.
He doesn't lose or give the ball away easily, to a great extent because he focuses on that rather than Hollywood balls. He can however make the right progressive passes when a counter opportunity arises.
Basically, he is not a fecking idiot and plays to his and the team's strengths. We could use that now, next season or in five seasons, no matter how many ball-pingers and flavours of the month you may want to sign eventually.
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I agree with this.
I don’t see a better linked and available option for what our midfield is sorely lacking.
We can get ball progression from Casemiro, Mainoo (carries) or Bruno/Mount and there isn’t a controlling midfielder on the market.
So someone who can win the ball back at an elite level and get it quickly to a better player will be a net benefit.
My only concern is the fee at this point.
Dont think anyone is in for him other than us. This is why I think the long game will work on PSG.
Unhappy player + manager doesnt want him + one team in for him bar us.
He’s absolutely what we need right now. Our negative goal difference last season is a two-sided coin. We conceded too many and scored fewer than we should. Strengthening our defence will address one side of that, plus a proven ball winner in midfield will help us to keep better possession and hopefully help to create more scoring opportunities from the better possession. Not too bothered about the fee, that’s up to INEOS to work out if we can afford it - but I think they may still have an additional target in mind if they can get this one over the line for the price they are prepared to pay. I expect them to try and do this deal quickly in order to move onto other targets and deal with the outgoings.
If he can come in and take our midfield to another level in terms of intensity and competitiveness that enables our more talented players to focus more on creating and scoring goals then, whilst it's not ideal, £51m is not a huge fee in that context.
I get it that we have to set the right precedence but if De Ligt, Zirkee, Ugarte work out and then Amad, Garnacho, Mainoo and Hoijlund grow on the pitch we won't have too many needs in the market next summer. Maybe a replacement goalie and some prospects that's it.
The surest way to stamp your authority on the market is by not being visibly needy and desperate - City and Madrid can walk away from any deal because they know that missing out on a player is not terminal to their aspirations on the pitch. That's the level we should reach and if he can help us do that then we should pay up.
I don’t have a view on the player himself, but i feel both sides are positioning for a more or less straight swap with Sancho.
Well the independent put a story out today that it was happening, but then this was contradicted not long after in The Telegraph.
I think Sancho is likely out of the equation. PSG don’t need him now.
Liverpool allegedly contacted him after Zubimendi turned them down but he turned them down as well.
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I think this will happen.
They have already brought their replacement. It feels like Utd and PSG are playing a respectful game of chicken re the price where both expect it to happen.
They have already brought their replacement. It feels like Utd and PSG are playing a respectful game of chicken re the price where both expect it to happen.
Presume they reverted to the normal knock?
Fofana really jumps off the page when it comes to that
Would be nice capping off the window with Ugarte and him or Rabiot if we actually manage to offload the likes of McTom and Eriksen.
Yeah I would like to sign two of them as well but like you say hinges on selling McTominay and Eriksen
What I like about Ugarte is I think he provides us with short term stability but also long term versatility.
A player such as Ugarte is going to be the heart beat of a midfield consisting of Mainoo and Bruno. He will bring the legs and physicality to a midfield that was cut through on many occasions last season. He is also a very smart presser off the ball and this is one of the biggest weaknesses the squad has.
In the long term, I believe we will eventually replace Bruno with a deeper midfielder, and play with a modern flat three in midfield. Mainoo looks like he is a great long term #8 who can progress the ball and operate in tight spaces, but to get the best out of him, you will need to play him with a pitbull defensive minded player (Ugarte), and another #8 who excels in long passes and ball retention.
Also, this version of Ugarte is almost certainly not the finished article. We should expect our coaches to be able to make him a better player, and that includes more comfortable on the ball. He just turned 23, so he is still 2-3 years away from his prime.
A player such as Ugarte is going to be the heart beat of a midfield consisting of Mainoo and Bruno. He will bring the legs and physicality to a midfield that was cut through on many occasions last season. He is also a very smart presser off the ball and this is one of the biggest weaknesses the squad has.
In the long term, I believe we will eventually replace Bruno with a deeper midfielder, and play with a modern flat three in midfield. Mainoo looks like he is a great long term #8 who can progress the ball and operate in tight spaces, but to get the best out of him, you will need to play him with a pitbull defensive minded player (Ugarte), and another #8 who excels in long passes and ball retention.
Also, this version of Ugarte is almost certainly not the finished article. We should expect our coaches to be able to make him a better player, and that includes more comfortable on the ball. He just turned 23, so he is still 2-3 years away from his prime.
Great post.
Yea he'd instantly be our youngest midfielder not from the academy which feels a bit crazy
Could be a quality long term value signing if we manage to get PSG to budge off their valuation.
Could be a quality long term value signing if we manage to get PSG to budge off their valuation.
What you, I or anyone else think we might need is not necessarily what the club needs. We are fans and our needs and opinions are only based on wishes. If Ugarte turns out to be a brilliant fit with Mainoo and form and excellent pivot, then why would we need what you claim we need?
Anyway, who is this positionally astute CDM that shields the defence and passes progressively? Sounds to me like you're describing Rodri or Busquets.
By the way, Palhinha was one of the best CDMs in the league last season and was also one of the low percentile side of that stat. He was bought by Bayern. The stat means very little, and does not mean you are a brainless donkey who lunges into every tackle.
Ye I think he’s more of a keep it simple kind of player which can be good in a possession based team if that’s what we’re trying to implement. We have players like Mainoo, Bruno and Mount who can progress the ball forward.
From that perspective - if he becomes a quality long term value signing that is - then a few million extra outlay is not that big in the grand scheme of things. But I do see the merit of being disciplined and holding your ground in negotiations like this, bodes well for future dealings.Yea he'd instantly be our youngest midfielder not from the academy which feels a bit crazy
Could be a quality long term value signing if we manage to get PSG to budge off their valuation.
What's hilariously inaccurate about it? Rice was one of West Ham's best players, had 3 PL seasons behind him at 20, several appearances for England and was wanted by both Manchester clubs. Wharton has started 15 games in the PL. I know he is a great talent, but he has absolutely not shown more at 20 than Rice did unless you only value long range passing.
There is this idea on here that a double pivot with Mainoo and Wharton will be a title challenging midfield instantly. It's just so devoid of any realism, and expectations like these only hurt younger players.
Source?
I agree with your assessments, I have not watched him live, and I can't say the clips on YT give full picture, but all the clips alongside the stats paint a picture of a player who is an excellent ball winner, reads danger and intervenes, as well as decent to good on the ball as the stats indicate, and he will definitely complement Bruno and Mainoo, or Bruno & Cas, or even Bruno & Mount
Has there been any update or just people here rambling?
Still think we bring in a tempo controlling midfielder next summer when Casemiro leaves as well
Yeah, people used to say the same while twisting themselves into knots trying to explain how Mount-Bruno-Casemiro was gonna work. Sorry, managers dont always know best.
Not necessarily. There are others, maybe not as good as Rodri though. Its not my job to scout and find players in the right profile, I just have my doubts whether this signing will work. Just look at his datamb chart, there are red flags.
Yeah, bayern buy duds too. Just because Bayern is doing something, doesnt mean we have to do the same.
100%. Who would that be? FDJ name still keeps getting thrown about with us.
Nope, because PSG are being stupid with the fee.
Fred at his best was better and offered more on the ball.
That's the issue with Fred, he wasn't that much at his best. One week he was great, the other week he was utter rubbish.
We need someone who is more like a constant factor, always at least a 7/10. Not one week a 9 and the next a 3.
I speak a little under correction but Enrique wants someone more capable with ball at feet - ie forward passes and progressive passers for that role. Similar to the Rodri/Zubimendi type, versus a destroyer like Ugarte. Ugarte has a high pass completion rate but it’s mostly simple/sideways and backwards. Similar to how Arne Slot at Liverpool also wants that type of Zubi-Zubi-Zoo midfielder.
I think that’s why they have the likes of Zaire Emery, Vitinha and Ruiz in there and they’ve just signed Neves.
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