I found it more than a little strange that some Utd fans were pushing and hoping for AWB and McT to be moved in large part due to their technical limitations but also crying out for Ugarte despite some concerns that he was lacking in those same areas.
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I found it more than a little strange that some Utd fans were pushing and hoping for AWB and McT to be moved in large part due to their technical limitations but also crying out for Ugarte despite some concerns that he was lacking in those same areas.
credit where credit is due. He was absolutely shit tonight. Worse player after Bruno.
Early days but not looking good I think we fecked up with this one. He looks really limited on the ball.
Early days but not looking good I think we fecked up with this one. He looks really limited on the ball.
Oh well it's not like we spent £60m pounds on him...
I'm sure he will be useful, but he just doesn't look like a footballer for the best teams. Too limited.
He needs time to adjust, hardly shocking.
Just highlights how utter daft it was to moan about him not being thrown into the starting lineup from day one.
Just highlights how utter daft it was to moan about him not being thrown into the starting lineup from day one.
It was only 40m. He'd be great for oleball because he's much more disciplined than Fred.
We all knew his passing was going to be shite, that's not his game. We still need a forward passing midfielder to play alongside him and hopefully Kobbie. Bruno will likely be that player until we realise we should replace him.
Because it's not a like for like comparison.
Ugarte's defensive output is stellar. Better than someone like AWB's is relative to his position and much better than McTominay's in the same position. And while he isn't in any way expansive on the ball, his retention is also better than McTominay's or AWB's.
If you believe a 23 year old DM who is very strong at winning the ball and successfully passing to a teammate is a useful thing to add to the squad (and I struggle to imagine how anyone who actually watched us play last season wouldn't) then there's no contradiction between wanting him and not wanting AWB/McTominay.
You just have to be realistic about his actual function in the team, and the other needs in the team that remain outstanding. Because I also can't imagine anyone who watched us last season thought we only needed to add that one profile of midfielder.
Too limited. He will not solve any of our problems.
If our attackers could score, nobody would be moaning about this fella.
Our attackers inability to put the ball in the back of the net puts the spotlight on everything else. Unjustifiably.
Our attackers inability to put the ball in the back of the net puts the spotlight on everything else. Unjustifiably.
You're right but I think most people mean that they expected a more versatile player that would be a real step up. If you think United should aim for a top4 spot in the PL, Ugarte really is an underwhelming transfer considering the state of the midfield and someone like Guimaraes would have been far more suited. For a 4-8 spot, Ugarte's fine.
Is it me or do his passes lack any zip to them?
I mean it's FC Twente at home, not fecking Liverpool at Anfield. If there was ever a time to cruise to a solid 7/10 type performance it was today.
Hmmmmm
Not sure what else to say so far.
Not sure what else to say so far.
We didn't.
One of the biggest negatives for me is that he's just not a guy who can eat up big spaces quickly. If he was capable of that, I think he would suddenly be a much more valuable profile for any tactical setup you can possibly imagine, and he would be a massive help to the team in managing opposition transitions. And it's not like he compensates for this with his in-possession qualities either.
If he was a little bit taller, quicker, and had longer legs, his ceiling would be much higher.
But I'm not writing him off just yet. Obviously want him to succeed.
If he was a little bit taller, quicker, and had longer legs, his ceiling would be much higher.
But I'm not writing him off just yet. Obviously want him to succeed.
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He won't adapt because the manager isn't a good coach, he will probably get worse like all players have. He might make an impact under next manager, he might be surplus and sold at a huge loss, much more likely the latter
It's also particularly odd to see people ask why we signed this type of player after a game in which the the actual goal we conceded demonstrated exactly why.
Their right-back was allowed to run the length of the pitch through what was a relatively lightweight midfield before our new DM did exactly what we signed him to do and stopped the attack with an excellent covering challenge.
Unfortunately for him and us, there's not much he can do when one of his teammates immediately gives the ball back to the opposition so they can keep going.
Their right-back was allowed to run the length of the pitch through what was a relatively lightweight midfield before our new DM did exactly what we signed him to do and stopped the attack with an excellent covering challenge.
Unfortunately for him and us, there's not much he can do when one of his teammates immediately gives the ball back to the opposition so they can keep going.
We somehow manage to always buy a player who opens another hole/problem.
Maguire, Onana, Hojlund, AWB, Zirkzee, Lisandro, Mount.....they are all bought in terms that we need this and that for them to be at best.
I wish, that for once, just for once, we buy a player who we exactly need and who is plug and play.
Defensive midfielder who can defend but also create.
Striker who can score goals and also play football.
Winger who can score and assist.
Goalkeeper who can play with his feet but also save shots.
Maguire, Onana, Hojlund, AWB, Zirkzee, Lisandro, Mount.....they are all bought in terms that we need this and that for them to be at best.
I wish, that for once, just for once, we buy a player who we exactly need and who is plug and play.
Defensive midfielder who can defend but also create.
Striker who can score goals and also play football.
Winger who can score and assist.
Goalkeeper who can play with his feet but also save shots.
I think he looks good defensively, not as imposing as i thought he would be also a little slower. His passing has not been good in those few games we have seen him, but i think people need to remember that no ones passing has looked good.
Casemiro, Ugarte, Bruno… if everyones passing is awful then maybe there is a bigger problem than individual players.
Casemiro, Ugarte, Bruno… if everyones passing is awful then maybe there is a bigger problem than individual players.
Hmm, not yet.
Like most of our players, a fish out of water when in possession because we suck ass in build up and giving easy passing options/angles when teams are set against us.
I like him and think he's capable but will we see him pass 60-100 times a game when there aren't those options?
I like him and think he's capable but will we see him pass 60-100 times a game when there aren't those options?
Bruno Guimaraes? Sure, if we could time travel back to 2022 and sign him I'd be all for it.
Short of that, or finding the 100m-odd it would have taken to sign him from Newcastle this summer, we could only buy players who were actually available. And it's a hell of a lot easier to say "sign the next Guimaraes" than it is to actually identify and sign the next Guimaraes.
If top quality DMs were that plentiful PSG wouldn't have spent €60m on Ugarte last summer, Chelsea wouldn't have spent €116/120m on Caicedo/Enzo, Arsenal wouldn't have spent €116m on Declan Rice, Liverpool wouldn't have had to make do with Endo last year, City wouldn't be looking so short in DM with Rodri injured, etc.
In the context of that market, and for a team whose DM options were a past-it Casemiro we'd be happy to lose and a not-good-enough Amrabat we didn't even own, Ugarte is a perfectly fine signing.
The problem is those players are also very rare. You're referring to the best of the best, for whom we would have to spend a lot of money on. Big money signings hasn't worked for us in the past. Zubimenbi was the other midfielder we were after but while he someone who can create from deep, he isn't as defensively strong as Ugarte.
How many midfielders today fit the category of being great defensively but also create? Probably only Rodri, every other great midfielder has a certain weakness that can be exploited. Kimmich is an elite creator but can't play as a lone number 6, same for Hakan and Frenkie. Paulhinha is a great defender but not a great creator. I suppose Caicedo could fit that type but he's quite young and inconsistent at the moment, even then we all saw how much he went for last season.
Two options are there, either you adjust your tactics to fit the weaknesses and strengths of your squad, something Klopp did really well with regards to his midfield (essentially removing the need for them to be creative by having TAA and Robertson bomb forward and be extra creators) or improve the players you currently. have so that they can become the players you want.
People forget who much Rodri struggled during his first season. I can remember posts from City fans here mocking a Gundogan Rodri midfield as being too open to counters, now any team would dream of having those two in the center. Rodri improved a lot in his years at City.
Ultimately, both Ugarte and Mainoo are young for midfielders so there is a lot of time for them to improve. It would just need the right manager and a lot of patience, both are things we are uncertain of at the moment.
I was expecting someone better on the ball for the money we have just spent.
It's early days but is this guy a huge upgrade on Amrabat?
It's early days but is this guy a huge upgrade on Amrabat?
Get out of here Hasan with your sensible posts.
Have to agree with this, although I think a lot of this comes from the lack of proper coaching. We should be able to buy a player that is nearly what we want, and coach him to be exactly what we want. But I can’t even remember the last time we did that - if anything we coach some of the better traits out of players
Needs a player like Pogba beside him 
I agree that creative dmc is a rare breed. Problem is that we are buying players who need buying another players or changing a system instead buying players who will make current players better.
And that is how you burn money and time.
Looks pretty shit. You can't build play through the back with someone of this profile.
Like others I predicted this would be a bad year if he’s the only midfield signing.
He’s also not a DM in my view, he’s someone that needs to press high up the pitch, a bit like Fred. He needs someone deeper who is better on the ball. I also don’t think he’s a midfielder in a two, he will need to be played as part of a trio because he’s very limited. I guess Dalot tucking in can help with that.
Obviously it’s not ideal that we’ve signed a player that you can only get the best out of in specific setups but our decision makers should have known this before signing him.
If the right pieces are there I do believe he can be a very valuable player but until we do that this will seem like a pointless signing.
He’s also not a DM in my view, he’s someone that needs to press high up the pitch, a bit like Fred. He needs someone deeper who is better on the ball. I also don’t think he’s a midfielder in a two, he will need to be played as part of a trio because he’s very limited. I guess Dalot tucking in can help with that.
Obviously it’s not ideal that we’ve signed a player that you can only get the best out of in specific setups but our decision makers should have known this before signing him.
If the right pieces are there I do believe he can be a very valuable player but until we do that this will seem like a pointless signing.
That is what DoF's are paid to do. It's about squad building. Obviously it's also upto the manager to try and work with what he has, improve players as well, but the limitation of not being able to go out and get whoever we want is a reality we have to live with now.
Wasn't great tonight admittedly but it's early days.
I expected he'd be quite limited in possession based on what people said so I'm not TOO worried about that, but I'm also not quite seeing the aggressive, high energy ball winner I thought we were getting just yet.
I had someone in mind that had that Licha like aggression off the ball, but just kept it simple when on it. Maybe he'll show that against a team that has more of the ball against us if he plays on Sunday, or maybe he's just not that sort of player. I hope he is though.
I expected he'd be quite limited in possession based on what people said so I'm not TOO worried about that, but I'm also not quite seeing the aggressive, high energy ball winner I thought we were getting just yet.
I had someone in mind that had that Licha like aggression off the ball, but just kept it simple when on it. Maybe he'll show that against a team that has more of the ball against us if he plays on Sunday, or maybe he's just not that sort of player. I hope he is though.
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He’s good at what he does, tackling and intercepting, he’s an average passer. I think he’ll be fine but what happens if a manager like Enrique comes in next?
We know from reports that Ugarte was a club-led signing. And the entire point of having club-led game models and recruitment is that you only bring in players and managers who suit the way you actually want to play.
So if they're doing things correctly, we don't hire a manager like Enrique because we already know we don't want to play that brand of football. If they're not doing things correctly, we hire a manager like Enrique and the Ugarte signing was a mistake.
On top of that members have written him off after 2 games
Ok, but surely you’d think that the club want to play a brand of football that appreciates possession and good forward passing like most of the big sides in Europe, and likewise that most top managers would want that too.
There's degrees to these things.
LIverpool's Klopp-era midfield was far from what a manager like Enrique would want too. Ditto Arsenal's current midfield. And it's only last summer sides like PSG (before they hired their manager), Chelsea and Liverpool were interested in Ugarte himself. None of those teams were abandoning the idea of appreciating possession in looking to sign him.
You need your side to function to a high level in possession, but you can also do that without playing Enrique-style football. And you can also do so with players like Ugarte who are conservative in possession. It's just about how the overall team works.
Yeah, could agree with that.
As I said, I think Ugarte will be fine, but we would definitely need an excellent passer and technical player next to him.
He looks like he will be best playing in a team who presses high and with a high defensive line, so he can use his ball winning ability to help sustain attacks.
As we know, Maguire doesn’t help with playing a high line.
How much did Joao Neves cost PSG?