That post made you think that Siorac wanted to put down the club? Wont the more sensible conclusion be that he overrates Gustavo and underrates Fellaini?
Luiz Gustavo
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That post made you think that Siorac wanted to put down the club? Wont the more sensible conclusion be that he overrates Gustavo and underrates Fellaini?
Fellaini would be a better option next to Carrick most likely because two static midfielders wouldn't make for the best combination. Would be hood to have a proper tackler in midfield though.
Yeah, I'm not sure what that has to do with the club. Fellaini, as far as I'm aware, isn't a Manchester United player. I just found it amusing that someone dismisses Gustavo based on his passing ability yet would be okay with signing Fellaini whose passing isn't one of his strengths; quite the opposite in fact. That somebody isn't David Moyes but Brwned. They aren't the same person, right?
If I knew that Fletch was finished and the Anderson was going, I would happily bring him in as a player that could do a job. But I don't think he is the type of quality pressing player that Moyes appears to want. I may be wrong, but Moyes wants a Fabregas type player and I think buying this guy, assuming Moyes felt he was good enough, would be buying a player because his position says the word "midfielder" in the title.
There's a faction of the caf that loves to ridicule the "general caf poster" so that answers your question Varun.
Overrating means to over-rate the ability of a player, and not to describe a complete opposite of that player in order to undermine one of our leading targets.
The caf is such a touchy place. Many of the posters who were going completely overboard over his last night has been proved completely wrong by the people who've seen them and yet the likes of me, Brwned and TN are supposed to be in the wrong(I don't know if you're referring to me, but I'm assuming that).
Ridiculous.
Fair enough. I dont know why but I keep thinking we'll get TWO CMs.
If anything, he's having a dig at Fellaini and/or at posters who are deeming Gustavo's passing ability not good enough for us yet want Fellaini even though he's hardly a great passer himself. Still no connection to your comment about having a dig at the club am afraid.
Well you're actually implying whatever you wanna do and I'm implying whatever I wanna see. So let's leave it at that.
It is a touchy place. The constant moaning about other posters reeks of being touchy. Why do you feel people are just dying to have a dig at the club? It seems far more likely to me that people are desperate for a good midfielder and hence are building up someone they don't know all that well ( compared to someone like fellaini) into someone they want. It's actually quite a regular human behavior. Yes, they're wrong when do it but it's harmless and certainly not intended as an opportunistic action to take a dig at the club.
So you're not really interested in what others ACTUALLY say and mean, you'll keep judging them on what you want to see? Interesting.
Do posters want quality or players who can play a pressing game? There's only a few players who fit into both categories, such as Fabregas and Gundogan, both whom are deemed unavailable.
Gustavo is a very good player. He may not be the first name you'd think of if you were asked who you'd want to sign, but the fact is that he's a top player who is a very good defensive midfielder. On the other hand, we could be looking at players like Ander Herrera who may not have the overall quality that people want in a midfielder, but who is more than capable of playing a pressing game (as he did under Bielsa at Bilbao).
Gustavo is a very good player. He may not be the first name you'd think of if you were asked who you'd want to sign, but the fact is that he's a top player who is a very good defensive midfielder. On the other hand, we could be looking at players like Ander Herrera who may not have the overall quality that people want in a midfielder, but who is more than capable of playing a pressing game (as he did under Bielsa at Bilbao).
That's what I dont understand. Why's there a need to prove others wrong and then have digs at them? Some think he's good enough for the club, some dont. Why the need to get out the Football manager, watched him only on youtube, want to have a dig at the club etc comments which are childish to say the least to put these posters down?
Exactly what you're doing. You are looking for instances of people putting the club down when they dont exist which is weird.
Ah ok then.
From next time, I'll post a completely fantasised opinion about a player and then have hissy fits over anyone who dares to prove me wrong. Seems like the way to go forward.
The only bit I can understand is the people who say that he's capable of scoring from long distance. He's scored 8 goals in 219 games in his career, a few of which are long distance shots that make Youtube compilations. He's not a goalscoring midfielder, he's a hard tackling, disciplined defensive midfielder who would allow the other midfielders to express themselves more whilst also giving cover for CArrick if need be.
and you're looking to somehow defend those who post opinions over a player without seeing them properly and then ask why hasn't the club signed him etc etc which is even more weird.
Tbf to KM, amol, have you been going through some posts and meltdowns on the Caf over the summer? Especially during our "failed Thiago and Fab" bids? It did seem that some people were actually criticising, blaming and taking digs at the club/Moyes/Woodward etc.
How is it completely fantasised to suggest that Gustavo is a better passer than Fellaini?
One would think I claimed O'Shea is a better dribbler than Messi, judging by your reaction.
Who's throwing a hissy fit? You seem hell bent on seeing things that dont exist for some reason. I had an issue with the comments I mentioned in the post you quoted(FM, youtube, having a dig at the club) which were childish and an attempt to undermine the opinion of other posters. Dont know about you but I personally wouldnt lose much sleep over Brwned on the internet proving me wrong about a German player not even playing for our club. The forum exists for discussion, ofcourse people will correct me if am wrong.
Nope, am not defending anyone. Am taking exception to the silly comments that have been thrown about to undermine others. Dont look for things that dont exist to undermine others KM, its childish.
I think you've got your wires crossed somewhere.
The only thing I disagree with you about is the idea that Fellaini is a destroyer and Gustavo isn't. I feel part of that is down to a nice youtube video which showed he could pass a bit. It appears the German fans agree.
It was lazy to bunch you together without explaining the reason for it - fair enough. I was just making the general point that people here are very quick to point out how well this guy or that guy would fit into our midfield based on limited evidence just because they're so desperate for a midfielder. There's no suggestion that these people are accepting that they've not seen enough of him to have a reasonable, firm opinion on him; in fact it's quite the opposite in general. That's the MO of transfer muppets. I think it's amusing is all. The majority of us have seen him in a couple of one-off games for Bayern, a little bit in the Confederations Cup (a glorified friendly tournament) and a bit on youtube...yet most of these people talk about him like they're experts. And I find it amusing because it causes reactions like this:
The funny thing is the reason I'm not acting hysterical is because chances are the club are much more clued up about whether Gustavo fits in than I am because I readily admit I've not seen much of him. It would probably benefit others to come to the same realisation. This stuff ain't god for your mental health.You really do act like such a condescending prick on here. You go round talking about players like you have in depth knowledge on them, yet when other people comment on a player, its all because of youtube.
No but that's apparently me "ridiculing the general section" of the Caf. It seems some of the posters have been reading the Caf throughout this summer with their eyes closed.
Well you seem to be throwing a hissy fit because Brwned apparently included you in the that big post he made. That's what triggered off this pointless debate.
Following the news we brought you earlier that Arsenal were in talks over a move for Luiz Gustavo, Sky Sports understands that a £17.2 million offer has been made toBayern Munich for the midfielder. He has been close to joining Wolfsburg but it is believed he wants to join a club in the Champions League.
by Lewis Rutledge 5:30 PMYes, a lot of people were criticism the management. Does that imply am individual is actually looking for opportunities to take digs at the management? Nope. Maybe they do it because they get "emotionally invested" in transfers and hence need to fix blame when things don't work out. There are do many other explanations other than "he's just looking for a chance to take a dig at the club". It just seems a rather convenient stance when someone is critical, rightly or wrongly.
Drives me nuts....
Not having a dig at you for it. It's just so outrageously horrible grammar and English.
£17m is a lot of money. Not sure if we should be going for him at that price.
I know he's a destroyer. I think we need one of those. I never claimed he's an all-rounder.
My gripe with Fellaini that he is neither. He's a big lad who puts himself about but in my opinion doesn't have the passing to play a box-to-box role for Manchester United and doesn't have the discipline/awareness to play as a proper DM. A top club can use a specialist who's very good at what he does and has got the necessary skills and that's Gustavo. In my opinion Gustavo's passing is better than Fellaini's and good enough to partner Carrick and give a platform to Kagawa (or even Rooney if he stays). That's the reason I want him. We're not a possession-oriented team and as Balu said, he'd probably do well for a side that's looking to play on the counter-attack which we usually do against the quality sides.
And we did use this kind of player before. Fergie himself claimed his autobiography that one of the reasons he wanted rid of Paul Ince back then was because he got it into his head that he can be a box-to-box midfielder when his strong suit was defending which did not appeal to him enough. There are similarities in the two players I'd say.
You are not wrong. The criticism was beyond belief and the only real embarrassment was the behaviour of certain "fans" in here. There were a number of members that clearly felt that the club had behaved badly by trying their luck with Fabregas, something that I could not get my head around.
We all know there is some deadwood to clear out in the midfield and that we need some established players in the middle, but this is a problem that is several years old and it will not be cured in one summer.
Buying more potentially unexciting players will not redress the "ordinary" look that we sometimes are guilty of. My personal opinion and I am sure I will get flamed for it, is that Anderson, Fletcher(poor lad), Giggs(what a legend) and Cleverley(strange player) are not good enough for our midfield, if we are serious about European football.
I think we need more than two midfielders, but I think we need to choose wisely and if that takes time, so be it.
Apparently Everton are lining up a £15m bid for MacCarthy so £17.2m for a Brazil internation midfielder, who played a major role in their Confederations Cup win this summer, seems about right.
I agree with most of what you're saying. If it wasnt a CM, I dont think this would be the case. Its come to a point where people tend to over-exaggerate how fell certain players will fit in or how good they are subconsciously because they want to see a CM come in.
You should look up what hissy fit means.
And this debate stemmed from your comment about posters wanting excuses to have a dig at the club in response to a post from Siorac which had nothing of that sort. That and the FM comment from someone.
Beware, i might throw a hissy fit.
Lazy writing mate. I'd write I'm or I am if I was writing somewhere more official.
Can you guys take this bitchfest elsewhere? The thread has gone way off-topic.
We're a huge club and we've barely spent a penny this summer, and are in dire need of midfield reinforcements. 17m I'd argue is closer to a bargain than overpriced, Fellaini would cost closer to £25m...
Quality defensive midfielder, CL pedigree, Brazil international and Confederations Cup winner. Crazy we're not bothering.
Are you being serious? He's a Bundesliga winner, he's a Champs League winner, he's in the Selecao, He won the Confederations Cup, he plays for one of the greatest clubs in the world, he's "surplus" to Pep G's requirements because Schweinsteiger and Martinez are there already and Guardiola probably only wants to play one of them (like Busquets)...and you think £17m is a lot of money?
We spunked nearly that much on Ashley Young...go figure.
Yep, i agree, this summer has been the worst I've seen the Caf "behave", and I've been reading for a solid 6 years (since 2008).
I'm not glancing at any posters when I mention this, but some of the criticism was really insane amol and yes, I can understand why some posters might be a little defensive of Moyes and the club, rightly and wrongly.
Surely you can see that.
I agree. We do need some bodies in the middle and if we read this thread further back, I would actually not mind us signing Gustavo. But some comments like "He's much better than Fellaini" or posters just can't understand "why we're not in for him" are a bit OTT. He's a very good DM, but a good/decent CM, and not exactly what we're looking for should make it obvious why we might not be going all out to get him. Also, he's not "miles" better than Fellaini either. That's debatable.
So I'd like his signing, especially from a "number of bodies" perspective, but it's not as if Gundogan/Fabregas/Thiago (oh wait, he chose Bayern
)/Modric suddenly became available etc. If we weren't interested in them, I'd understand the criticism. Also, I doubt Gustavo wants to move somewhere where he might be competing for a first XI spot - it's a world cup year.Are you really trying to say that spoiler and destroyer mean two distinctly different things?
I basically think you're taking any chance to complain about Fellaini which has been one of the themes of the summer. Gustavo is a spoiler and I think he's more likely to spend all his time breaking up the play than Fellaini, so you're either moving the goalposts here or your views on Gustavo are miles away from what everyone else who has watched him regularly is saying.
Amol may not like the idea that posters are grouped together but the simple fact is if you looked at the transfer forum across various summers you'd see different groups of people voicing the same opinions based on the same themes - the club are idiots because they're not signing the players I think they should. The way people act now is remarkably similar to ehsanul - although the arguments are perhaps written a bit more eloquently.
I think part of it is down to what Steve said. I understand the reasoning behind the cultural shift but it doesn't apply here, in my view, because these people that think they could do these things just as well are doing so based on a tiny amount of information/evidence/experience etc. I get the impression that are some people that are so delusional that they genuinely think they know better than people at United. I'm not saying "don't voice any opinions because you don't know as much as Moyes/Woodward", I'm just saying if you really find the club's conduct embarrassing and you really get upset to the extent to say you're on the verge of a mental breakdown* because they aren't signing a player you think is good enough based off a tiny amount of footage then you probably need to take a step back.
*Yes, I'm aware of the exaggeration
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