I doubt we are and I think there will be a Caf riot in here if he turns up at Arsenal.
However, until proved wrong, I think we should trust in our new manager.
Luiz Gustavo
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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I doubt we are and I think there will be a Caf riot in here if he turns up at Arsenal.
However, until proved wrong, I think we should trust in our new manager.
He's an extremely good player and certainly the best of any realistic targets left. To be fair I think the main reason there was no thread on him is due to the fact there seemed little reason to leave Munich but the appointment of Pep has obviously changed all that.
And yet these fabled CMs - players who are going to be much better than Gustavo or Paulinho or Moutinho (etc etc etc) - show no signs of appearing on the United horizon.
It's not difficult to see why a fair few United fans have become restless on this issue, yet you insist on being deliberately obtuse about it all ... dismissing all critics as being either WUMs or groundlessly panic-stricken.
In all seriousness Glaston, are you in any way concerned that AVB seems to be systematically replacing every British player in your team? Once Bale goes it'll be Walker out there on his own.
Dawson. Lennon, Defoe, Townsend, Rose, Carroll, Naughton, Fryers (even assuming that Parker, Livermore and Huddlestone are all sold) ... still leaves plenty of British players in the squad.
Nice try with the Bale comment tho'
I'm going to guess you haven't seen much of him.
I can't be bothered to check but I really like Mesüt Özil as a player and should he become available I hope we will be in for him, but I don't think I have a single post in his thread. Likewise with Thiago, Barcelona are on Sky pretty much every week, so I had seen a fair bit of him, but didn't post in his thread until it transpired that there was a chance he would be moving clubs this summer.
No need to be so paranoid. This thread is active because he is available at a decent price and people who like him hope we are in for him. He's not a glitzy, world class player and despite your insistence I haven't once called him "excellent", but he certainly is what we need and would improve us significantly imo.
If we bid for Fellaini now that would scream panic buy because he's been 'available' all summer and his release clause could have been triggered any time. Bayern have only said recently that Gustavo is available so its only natural that talk about him is gathering pace amongst those who rate him.
Not everything in the transfer forum represents delirious muppetry.
Surprising that Luiz is the odd player out in Pep's early tenure, seems precisely the sort of versatile talent that Guardiola enjoys - but I guess that's the embarrassment of riches at Bayern, atm
I read he's linked to Arsenal, would be a fabulous addition to any side, IMO
I read he's linked to Arsenal, would be a fabulous addition to any side, IMO
Fingers and toes are god damn crossed. If I didn't have a boner over this then I'd be crossing my knob too.
no value and that
If they do it for such a low fee then really hats off to them. Absolutely amazed that a midfielder of this quality is available but Utd isn't interested.
It really would be a kick in the teeth.
Considering how many midfielders they already have, he would easily be 1 of the best in our squad also. £14m for a player of his quality/age is sod all.
seriously, someone should e-mail the club, send links to his youtube vids and angrily demand some action
As I've said, you cannot demand the club to spend £14m on a player who hasn't been thoroughly scouted over the last season or so. We've identified our targets, tracked and scouted them and if none of them are available, we'll wait a season and scout different players to have a plan prepared for next Summer, not buy someone we're not even aware of.
If we learned something about United's way of doing this, we'll have to go through an extensive scouting process and background personality checks to find out if the player has what it takes to play for the club before making a move (and please don't throw Bebe example at me, I mean players from the £15m - £30m range obviously who come with high wages, we can take punts on £5m players on £20k a week)
If we learned something about United's way of doing this, we'll have to go through an extensive scouting process and background personality checks to find out if the player has what it takes to play for the club before making a move (and please don't throw Bebe example at me, I mean players from the £15m - £30m range obviously who come with high wages, we can take punts on £5m players on £20k a week)
Suggesting that United are unaware of what a player who spent the last two seasons at a side that reached the Champions League final in both seasons can bring to the table is more than a bit odd. You're basically saying that our management doesn't have a clue about football outside the UK. That would be very worrying; it's not like Bayern play in some obscure league, it's fairly easy to get hold of any and all data we might need about Gustavo. He's an established player at a top side, hardly some up-and-coming youngster who may or may not realize his potential.
Plus he was good in FM11 for Hoffenheim. A stable in my midfield!
I wrote that? Are you sure that wasn't one of the other Bayern supporters on here? I think that sounds a bit over the top and if I wrote something like that I was a bit off. I haven't read through the whole thread, but if somone is interested, here's my opinion on Gustavo:
He started last season on fire and for the first time looked like someone who can actually consistently contribute in the build up and in attack apart from the odd long shot goal. It was all gone when he came back from his injury though, so there's a good chance that those brilliant weeks lead to him being a bit overrated in his overall ability. Our opponents were completely surprised by our pressing, so he had an easier job than the year before. When teams adapted and Schweinsteiger wasn't available, we pretty much sucked. The few times Gustavo and Martinez played together, we were incredibly shit in possession and it was mainly because Gustavo did feck all contribute in attack (the losses to Bate and Arsenal come to mind). I really, really like Gustavo and in a team that doesn't focus primarily on possession, he'd be brilliant, but he was always a bit of a problem in our style, he was quite expensive but van Gaal rarely played him in midfield, most of the time he started as a left back or centerback. Heynckes' made very good use of him though, mainly because with Kroos he played a third CM in midfield, who dropped deep regularly and helped Schweinsteiger in that area. I doubt we could have produced last season's end of season form after Kroos got injured with Gustavo instead of Martinez in the team.
I don't really understand why some people think he's not good enough in general though. He mainly doesn't fit in Guardiola's approach (which is heavily criticised on here anyway). His vision and his passing are clearly overrated by some of the muppets in this thread, but he's no worse than Sven Bender for Dortmund, for example. The manager needs to decide what role he wants him to play and in which way the team will play against the top teams in the league and in europe (especially against teams with great pressing). He's a brilliant ball winner and his passing is okay when he's given enough time on the ball or when it's enough to play the easy pass to someone who's actually good on the ball, but he will struggle under pressure in a possession game.
If United starts to use Kagawa in a way similar to what he played in Dortmund, someone like Gustavo next to Carrick would be a perfect fit. If Moyes wants to play Kagawa out wide with someone like Rooney in the middle, I think you need a different type of player - just like Bayern need a different type of player, when Müller is playing behind the striker. Both ideas can work brilliantly, imo, it's just a different approach to the game and I don't know which fits the premier league and its style better.
I reckon our scouting network is far more detailed within Premier League and lower leagues in England than outside of. We probably know that a player like Gustavo exists but I doubt we do much scouting in Bundesliga, we haven't signed a German player during Ferguson era (apart from Zieler and Neumayr but they were youngsters) and Kagawa is our only signing from Bundesliga in the last decade I think. Generally we often seem to be unaware of talented players from other leagues so I guess our scouting there might not be that extensive at all.
Besides, I reckon scouting a player whom we've identified as a primary target is different from just sending over a scout to watch team's game. We need time to do this sort of stuff and we've not had it with Gustavo.
Thanks, that is an excellent summary.
To be honest, with what you've written, him and Arsenal doesn't seem that great a fit. He can obviously improve his ball skills under Wenger but seems like a very un-wenger signing.
What utter nonsense. Scolari played respectively, in the Confederation Cup semi finals and final, 4-2-3-1 and 4-2-1-3, in which both games saw Gustavo partner Paulinho.
Have you watched enough of Gustavo to be able to say what you said?
I honestly have no idea what Wenger is trying to do. Signing Podolski and making him one of the highest paid earners in the team was even more obscure for a team that doesn't want to focus on sitting deep and attacking on the counter. Maybe Wenger will surprise us all with a different style next season?
If arsenal sign him and we don't get someone better, it would be rather laugher that we didn't go for him.
I thought it was you mate. I'm fairly sure it was a Bayern supporter though and that he said exactly that. Will try to find the post again.
Anyway the opinion might be off and I also think Martinez is the better player. Though I'd say that Gustavo would be first choice right away in our midfield.
And since Moyes has only been our manager for three months (technically, if not officially) we couldn't really have done it with any player. Which is why, I believe, he'll only go for players he has seen himself regularly in the PL. It makes sense, but it seriously limits our possibilities and now flexibilities when a good player comes into the market.
That's quite a summary Balu.
Do you think Gustavo has it in him to play alongside Carrick as a box to box midfielder in our setup?
I don't think he's any good as a box to box midfielder. Did he ever play that role in any of his teams?
God, if we could just get an analysis like that in all the transfer threads. Good stuff, Balu.
True but we cannot blame him for that. He had to evaluate different standard of players during his Everton days as top level talents from across Europe were always unavailable to him, he faces a completely different task at United now and wants to be off to a good start. If it means waiting another year then he'll take his time and go through season with our current options rather than bring someone he doesn't know much about, I think.
Good and interesting post Balu, thanks for that.
Yep, from what I've seen of him, your summary is spot on. Playing him next to Carrick might work against the Barcelona's/Bayern's of this world - i.e. teams who are better than us at keeping the ball, when we set up to sit deep and hit them on the break. But our primary target (that "marquee" midfielder) is actualy the one who can pass and dictate the tempo of a match from the middle (i.e. Fab/Modric etc).
In 95% of United's matches every season that isn't the case. That's not to say that we shouldn't conside signing him because he could be used as a substitute for Carrick as well - but I think his reaosn for moving is to be a regular and not a backup type player.
IMO though, Gustavo us currently better than what he have in midfield, except Carrick.
Arsenal are not close to getting him though.
I don't think so. We will have scouts in all of Europe's big leagues. It's rather a matter of are we interested in said player or not. When we signed Buttner our scout in Netherlands gave an interview on his signing saying he was surprised Fergie went for him. The scout also noted they're tasked with identifying the top 10 players in every position in the league they're scouting and Buttner was like number 3 on their recommendations list. So obviously, we do have a quite an extensive network of scouts, I'd be shocked if a club of our stature didn't have scouts in the Bundesliga.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-transfer-news-old-1273829
Arsenal in talks with Bayern Munich over Luiz Gustavo
http://www1.skysports.com/football/...in-talks-with-bayern-munich-over-luiz-gustavo
http://www1.skysports.com/football/...in-talks-with-bayern-munich-over-luiz-gustavo
I would be flabbergasted if we weren't in for him. I'd be really concerned if that was the case.
Not blaming him at all. But I do feel that since we really need a midfielder, if the fee isn't too much and we don't have better, realistic targets, we should be willing to take a punt. It doesn't have to be Luiz Gustavo, of course. But we need to open our minds a little bit more under the circumstances. We surely have people with knowledge about players in Europe and there are tapes. Not perfect, but sometimes you just have to do it. Heck, we did with Bebe...
Yeah, we're probably aware that there are players out there but I don't think this sort of knowledge would be enough to justify purchasing a £15m player. As I said, I get the impression that United as a club only sign high value players after they've been thoroughly scouted - I doubt this has been the case with Gustavo who didn't appear to be available at any point during the last year and a half, even less so by Moyes who has only been at the club for a month, so we have no way of knowing whether he'd improve the team or not.
Signing someone like Buttner is differrent because it doesn't require big amount of money.
I am not sure why everyone's getting so hot and bothered about not signing him. He's nothing special imo
Have any better suggestions then? He's a young CM that comes at a reasonable price (see what we paid for Ando for example). He'd a be a good partner for Carrick in CM with Clevs as well.
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