Rodriguez apparently had a clause of 24m this summer.
weird no one triggered. He is the closest thing to a sumptuous fullback around atm.
Liverpool 2016/17 - Performance and chat thread.
- Thread starter Parry Gallister
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Rodriguez apparently had a clause of 24m this summer.
weird no one triggered. He is the closest thing to a sumptuous fullback around atm.
WTF ? It's ONLY LB ?! That LB cost us (in the greater part) the EL final. That LB cost us enough points in the PL that Klopp could well have been persuaded not to give up on 4th had we not (lost them). Whilst we can't lay all the blame on the young lad's head it most certainly isn't a case of ONLY LB. £20m is nothing in this market and our net spend for this window is looking like ZERO. I'd happily splash that on De Sciglio or Hector (in that order) so that the rest of the team don't have to cover his arse half a dozen times a match.
I think full back is a position that can be filled by a utility player i.e Milner. Klopp seems to be happy with that anyway.
Criminal underrating of the importance of the fullbacks on this thread. Just take a looksie at us with\without Luke Shaw, or us with an out of form Darmian vs an in form Valencia.
Fullbacks are very important today, especially for you guys with your gegendepressing and wish to flood to opponent. A shit fullback means you can easier be caught on the break, and it gives you less of an attacking threat, allowing the opponent to mark your wide players out of the game without having to think about an overlapping fullback storming ahead.
Fullbacks are very important today, especially for you guys with your gegendepressing and wish to flood to opponent. A shit fullback means you can easier be caught on the break, and it gives you less of an attacking threat, allowing the opponent to mark your wide players out of the game without having to think about an overlapping fullback storming ahead.
I'm of the belief that most decent players with a work ethic can become good full backs.
Milner has everything to succeed there. Work rate, stamina, an excellent cross with either foot. It'd be nice to get a specialised player in but I trust in Klopp's judgement.
I trust Milner in straight lines at fullback. I expect he will come undone with clever players exploiting the space between centre and fullbacks on the offside.
Caught in the middle of the two opinions here. I agree that full backs are very important, like you. I think @ShadesOfTomato has a fair enough point too though, if there's 1 position you'd choose to have a utility player in it'd probably be full back.
I do think we need a left back though.
Milner is a clogger.
I think a utility player can do a decent job at fullback (like Valencia does with us), at least the basic tasks. But they usually come undone on the defending and positional aspect of the job, it's not something you can really teach to a player who's played the majority of his career and probably formative years in another position.
I'm very happy if Klopp trusts Milner as fullback though.
I played quite a lot at LB at a half decent standard (County-ish League equiv). There isn't a lot to it in some ways. You're nearly always facing the play, you should know who is where in front of you & looking across to the right. Then there's how the game goes as to how much you can contribute going forward, sometimes the space is there & sometimes it isn't. I was never quite sure why this was tbh. Someone once said to me that you can be very often marking either their quickest player (right winger) or best player (right MF). Being up vs. someone a LOT quicker is no fun whatsoever - the feeling of doom when it looks like the ball is about to get knocked over your head into all that 'orrible space you know is there.... 
(wouldn't think this 'best player' theory holds up great at the top professional level, mind)
So, there becomes 2 types of game for you, lots of getting forward, 1st time crossing, foot on the ball in their half because you are the 'get out' pass for the MF that happens if all the play is from Left to Right. Sometimes that isn't happening & all you do is head the ball, defend & trot up to halfway & back. Really helpful to the team if you read through balls & sweep behind the CBs when necessary.
So do you want a superb attacking player or a steady defender or a bit of both? Really good at both still seems quite rare or they'd all have one, LB esp, fewer left footers innit...
Milner would do OK in most games I would have thought.
(wouldn't think this 'best player' theory holds up great at the top professional level, mind)
So, there becomes 2 types of game for you, lots of getting forward, 1st time crossing, foot on the ball in their half because you are the 'get out' pass for the MF that happens if all the play is from Left to Right. Sometimes that isn't happening & all you do is head the ball, defend & trot up to halfway & back. Really helpful to the team if you read through balls & sweep behind the CBs when necessary.
So do you want a superb attacking player or a steady defender or a bit of both? Really good at both still seems quite rare or they'd all have one, LB esp, fewer left footers innit...
Milner would do OK in most games I would have thought.
Milner would probably do okay at fullback yes, but 1) I want more than just 'decent' and 2) the player himself will certainly be unhappy if he's played there. Fullbacks are very important in today's game, they can create width and overlapping fullbacks contribute a lot to your offensive patterns, i.e. Rose and Walker at Spurs last year. Moreno has that attacking ability as well but he's just not good enough defensively and that's his most important task, hence why he shouldn't start another game for us. Clyne is good defensively but still contributes too little going forward imo, so we definitely need a LB à la De Sciglio, Hector or Rodriguez (won't get him of course) to compensate that. LB has been a struggle for us for a very long time, I think since Fabio Aurélio left, and we thought we had it sorted when we signed Moreno but clearly we haven't, so it's important we get it fixed ASAP (already too late imo since the season starts this weekend) especially with all the outgoings like Smith and Flannagan.
The very best teams in the world always had quality fullbacks in the past, both defensively and going forward: Alba and Dani Alves, Alaba and Lahm (now Kimmich), Marcelo and Carvajal.
The very best teams in the world always had quality fullbacks in the past, both defensively and going forward: Alba and Dani Alves, Alaba and Lahm (now Kimmich), Marcelo and Carvajal.
I assume that Rodriguez wouldn't have wanted to join you, he was surely hoping for a bigger step up.
You do have a huge name, but you are at the moment not a top 10, maybe barely top 15, club in the world, no CL and not a huge probability to have CL soon, this plays a role with players' decisions. You can pay quite a lot, but Wolfsburg pays decently already.
So you have to target players slightly below in terms of hype and being sought after. It looks like you had a great target in Guerreiro but Dortmund snatched him away, like they did Dembele.
So it's not that easy. Don't forget that you were in a even better position when you signed Moreno, you spent big on a left back and you surely did extensive scouting. Still it turns out he's a liability. Confirmed, no brainer top players don't grow on trees.
You do have a huge name, but you are at the moment not a top 10, maybe barely top 15, club in the world, no CL and not a huge probability to have CL soon, this plays a role with players' decisions. You can pay quite a lot, but Wolfsburg pays decently already.
So you have to target players slightly below in terms of hype and being sought after. It looks like you had a great target in Guerreiro but Dortmund snatched him away, like they did Dembele.
So it's not that easy. Don't forget that you were in a even better position when you signed Moreno, you spent big on a left back and you surely did extensive scouting. Still it turns out he's a liability. Confirmed, no brainer top players don't grow on trees.
Plenty of top teams get by with decent but unspectacular at FB. They can't all have Maldini Cafu or Alves can they? Dixon, Winterburn, Phil Neal (pen)
What you don't want is a defensive liability regardless of how brilliant he is at the 'getting forward' unless you're firmly committed to mainly defending with 3 & not really bothering on one side at all. I just think Moreno is a lost cause because he won't ever understand how not to over commit for one thing. I think we're calling it 'brainless'. I thought Rafael was the same for us, lots of ability, bit of a loose cannon, very prone to getting 'caught out'
What you don't want is a defensive liability regardless of how brilliant he is at the 'getting forward' unless you're firmly committed to mainly defending with 3 & not really bothering on one side at all. I just think Moreno is a lost cause because he won't ever understand how not to over commit for one thing. I think we're calling it 'brainless'. I thought Rafael was the same for us, lots of ability, bit of a loose cannon, very prone to getting 'caught out'
You do realize the time we live in has a "20" at the beginning, not a "19" anymore?
I know its mental isn't it, back 4 needs to play as a unit, whole defence steps up and if a rb or lb is stood 10 yards behind them playing a striker on then you're screwed.
I pray they don't sign a lb and start with Milner in that position as some are suggestion, along with a weak cb pairing and lack of ball winners in midfield they'll be over run
I think you're right you can get by without having an amazing full back but they need to be able to defend as a minimum.
You also need to be able to make up for their lack of quality with solid defenders or midfielders with solid awareness, I don't think liverpool have either and that's why they'll struggle
I don't think Moreno should be discounted just yet. He has a good left foot and is probably one of the fastest players in the league (very important attribute for the way we play). I'm sure Klopp feels he can mould him into something better, similar to how Pochettino revived Danny Rose.
Pre-season is fecking with your head man!
I am a bit wary of Liverpool this year, I think they will be much better than last year. No European competition helps, a lot, and I think that will tell.
I also think Mane is excellent, would have taken him here in a heartbeat.
Good options going forward, a competent midfield that will compete and harry opponents while maybe not creating much but ideal for Klopp really. Probably missing a deep lying ball player, and obviously missing a defence almost entirely, but still enough to push on a lot this year. Maybe not challenging for the title, but enough to get to top 4 I think.
All of which I hate myself for saying of course.
Mane is a big transfer for them. Him, Coutinho and Firminho behind a fit Sturridge is a great attack. However, their entire back 4 bar Clyne is shite. Their keeper is shite and their midfield is OK.
I know it was only pre season but Mane tore Barca a new one on Saturday. He showed at Southampton that he's a big game player so hopefuly he can bring that over to us by getting a Brace against a depleted Arsenal team on Sunday
.He just needs to feed him the same stuff he gave to Lovren & we'll have a winner on our hands.
I know it was only pre season but Mane tore Barca a new one on Saturday. He showed at Southampton that he's a big game player so hopefuly he can bring that over to us by getting a Brace against a depleted Arsenal team on Sunday
Agreed, I think he's a terrific buy. The odd transfers in defence helps keep my expectation about you lot at bay. Thank feck!
I don't think Moreno's ever going to get better defensively. He's great as an offensive outlet on the left but doesn't have the defensive abilities needed to be a decent left back. He's always getting caught out of position and makes far too many individual errors. His concentration when defending is lacking as well. I remember the goal we conceded at Stamford Bridge last year. Moreno never had the awareness at any stage to know he had someone running into his area of the box and Ramires ended up getting a free header. I'm sure he did the same thing for Mane's goal against us in the COC quarter final.
A new left back is a no brainer as far as I'm concerned. It's either that or Gomez gets a go when he's fit. I'm not sure how long he's out for though?
A new left back is a no brainer as far as I'm concerned. It's either that or Gomez gets a go when he's fit. I'm not sure how long he's out for though?
yep that is one of his favourite errors - letting someone ghost in from behind him as he ball watches. If he starts at the emirates and makes a mistake prepare for a major meltdown by LFC fans everywhere. And the thing is even if manages to make it thru that game you just know its coming soon enough. Preferring to play a CM in his position, instead of him, says it all really.
You know that we signed a new keeper and two centrebacks?
Yes, and I rate neither of them at top 4 quality.
Moreno's problem is the same as Enrique's was - he only plays his own game and is only focused on whatever is in front of him. He's bloody simple.
I wouldn't mind seeing Moreno played further forward but realistically we've got plenty of options in those areas so I don't see a place for him. I'd love to see him prove us all wrong but I don't see it happening. I'd have loved us to go and sign Hector. Even at £20 million it's worth it, especially if we get £30 million for Benteke.
Yeah I thought about that option too - but although he is quick, his end product isn't great, so as a wide midfielder/winger I don't think he offers enough. From FB he is good at supporting the player in that role (usually Coutinho). But when it comes to defending he just loses concentration too easily and too regularly - in his first away game at City a couple of seasons ago he royally fecked up and he hasnt improved since.
I think had we wanted Hector a bid would have gone in by now - but i still live in hope
I feel the same way about Clyne offensively speaking. He'll get forward well but lacks the end product more often than not. Defensively he's far superior to Moreno which is why I'm never really that critical of him.Yeah I thought about that option too - but although he is quick, his end product isn't great, so as a wide midfielder/winger I don't think he offers enough. From FB he is good at supporting the player in that role (usually Coutinho). But when it comes to defending he just loses concentration too easily and too regularly - in his first away game at City a couple of seasons ago he royally fecked up and he hasnt improved since.
I think had we wanted Hector a bid would have gone in by now - but i still live in hope
I remember that City game. Didn't he mess around trying to clear the ball and let Jovetic in?
I think the Norwich penalty is my favourite Moreno lash up. It was worth 2 penalties really.
It'd be hilarious if we did the double on them again.
I have a bad feeling that Liverpool may be very good this year. Guess it depends a lot on how they come through a toughish opening set of fixtures.
Yeah at least Clyne is solid at the back. We have enough creativity now that 2 solid full backs would be ok - so long as they offer support to the attack and don't ship easy goals.
In that city game Jovetic came in on the blindside as he fannied about trying to clear it. I remember hoping at the time, it was just a one off and it wasn't a sign of things to come, that it was early in the season and he was still getting used to the prem. He's had 2 full seasons and he still hasn't improved - I doubt he will suddenly inherit a brain. I expect a few howlers this season - hopefully they will be when we're a few goals to the good.
That's probably the worst thing I've seen Moreno do. The first challenge was bad enough but to be daft enough to have another bite was ridiculous.
Mourinho has a pretty good record against us to be fair. Big games like that are his speciality.
Mourinho's record against Klopp on the other hand isn't all that great 
Can't see United doing the double over us this season, losing that game at Anfield in January would have been crushing for the manager and the players, they won't allow it to happen again I hope.
What is it out of interest?Mourinho's record against Klopp on the other hand isn't all that great
BVB win and draw in CL group 12/13, with Real finishing behind BVB, then kicked Real out of semis 4-3 on aggregate (4-1 in Dortmund, 0-2 second leg in Madrid).
Last season what was it? 3-1 at the Stamford Bridge?
Yep, we fell behind early but came back with a Coutinho brace if I'm not mistaken.
Didn't know it was Mourinho at the helm went Dortmund beat them in the semis. Admittedly, we certainly don't have a striker like Lewandowski right now who can put four goals past Real.