Considering the majority of United fans on here thought that Origi was shit when he first came into the sqaud shows how well he has performed to turn it around. You guys were also laughing at Liverpool for signing a player that was voted as one of the worst performers in the French league, it just shows that those types of polls are mostly kneejerk rubbish and that we shouldn't judge players especially young ones after only a few games. I
Liverpool 2016/17 - Performance and chat thread.
- Thread starter Parry Gallister
- Start date
Last season it was the guy who you just sold to Bournemouth. Who will it be next season?
Next season our Rashford will be....Rashford when he leaves to play for a worldie manager that actually believes in and plays youth. :P
What is the deal with Wisdom? When I've seen him granted not all that often he's looked a promising player. Considering the club's full backs need improving why did he never get a look in?
50 goals conceded last season, while not terrible, is where they'll have to improve to take that next step IMO. I believe City conceded the most of the top 4 teams with 41. Not a huge gap, but 9 goals in the right circumstances can make a big difference in the final table. They really need to find a consistent CB pairing. I think Matip is a good player, but will Lovren/Sakho step up and reach expectation? Hard to say at this point but I think it's vital for Liverpool's success this coming season.
Simply, Wisdom's not good enough. I'm not quite sure what flaw it is that he has but every manager he's played for seems wary of it and him.
To be fair, I don't think we can blame Rodger's for hating Liverpool.
Anyway, as much I hate Liverpool and enjoy seeing them swamped with averageness, it'd be a shame to see another promising career ruined by injuries. I like Sturridge despite his obnoxious celebration and, even though he plays for your lot and getting back to his best would help improve your team a lot, I want to see it happen. I mean, I hope you still fail in every attempt at a trophy and lose every match that isn't of benefit to us, but lose with a fit and firing Sturridge.
Though, if having a fit and firing Sturridge meant you'd have a successful season, I could live with that not happening!
Always looked like a centre back playing out of position to me, but not good enough to nail down a place at centre back either. Kinda like a worse version of Micah Richards.
But then I never followed his loan spells religiously so could be miles off. Clyne is fine at right back anyway.
I think Klavan could turn out to be a regular first team player.
I think one thing Klopp has done with our squad apart from adding speed is we do look a lot physically stronger and agree that Klavan may well be a regular starter along with Matip, also a shame Gomez suffered a set back
Yeah, feel that Clyne's been a little under-rated since his Southampton days even if he has made the england squad pretty consistently. Who's your other option at rb?
Milner it seems
TBF Tony V has done well for us drafted in there, they're both workhorse players with good engines, he won't embarrass himself. Wonder if Klopp has any of your kids in mind.
I don't think our resident Liverpool fans say that.
This is something to be posted on the RAWK thread!
Sakho and Lovren seem to have done well under Klopp. The new goalkeeper getting injured and not signing a new LB is going to cost them though
LB seemed like the most obvious place for improvement so it's strange they've done nothing about it so far
True, my favourite one of them all is the one titled: "let's laugh at liverpool". Always cracks me up
Agreed about the left back...it's very puzzling indeed. I'm not sure how anyone can watch Moreno and see him as a PL-level defender, especially for a team that aspires for top 4. I also agree that Klopp will likely get more out of the current players in his first full season than managers have previously. I do think finding consistency in the CB pairing is vital. The understanding between those two players is so important in any successful defensive set up, so finding two that will play together consistency is important, whether it's Matip, Klavan, Lovren, Sakho or whoever.
That's why I enjoy it here. The differing views from supporters of many clubs but especially your closest rivals, it gives balance. It's a bit like politics and debates in the House of Commons, some intelligent arguments on both sides and then the jeer boys who know no better.
I believe there's a cracking player in there. he has strength, skill, pace and intelligence and could go on to be an excellent striker. I put some stats up elsewhere showing 'goals per minutes played' that better indicate how good he could be than the always misleading 'goals per game'. The same applies to his figures from France when he was just a teenager trying to break into the team (appearances being very misleading when he was often the player subbed on or off).
Goals & Assists (per MINUTES played : PL, EL, FAC, LC) 2015/16
Sturridge : 1,700 mins / 13 goals / 2 assists = goal per 130.76 mins (goal or assist every 113.33 mins).
Origi : 1,642mins / 10 goals / 2 assists = goal per 164.20 mins (goal or assist every 136.83 mins).
Ings : 508 mins / 3 goals / 0 assists = goal per 169.33 mins (goal or assist every 169.33 mins).
Benteke : 2,193 mins / 10 goals / 4 assists = goal per 219.30 mins (goal or assist every 156.64 mins).
Coutinho : 3,187 mins / 12 goals / 7 assists = goal per 265.58 mins (goal or assist every 167.37 mins).
Firmino : 3,327 mins / 11 goals / 9 assists = goal per 302.45 mins (goal or assist every 166.35 mins).
Lallana : 3,531 mins / 7 goals / 9 assists = goal per 504.42 mins (goal or assist every 220.68 mins).
And for interest :
Mane : 3,110 mins / 15 goals / 9 assists = goal per 207.33 mins (goal or assist every 129.58 mins).
N.B. PL & EL stats from Who Scored. FAC / LC / ELQ stats from opening all the match reports for teams / subs / goals and assists. If anyone knows a better source then please let me know for the future !
Whilst you are probably correct on his integration into Klopp's style (the superb analysis of Klopp's tactical implementation at http://spielverlagerung.com showed how he, and the team, has greatly improved over the course of last season) and no doubt he's lost some acceleration, he is one of the few player's we have that are capable of 'real' world class goals that take your breath away. Goals that few others could have scored and that's where his value lies. That and that even with his injuries he still scores far more often (minutes played - see post above) than any other striker we have.
Randall. I didn't rate him on his appearances last season but he's only young and seems to have come on a bomb under Klopp. I'll reserve judgement for now.
The transfer window isn't done yet and it's obvious we have been looking for a LB, either as competition or to take over from Moreno. Latest link is to De Sciglio, I would be delighted if we were to get him (I think 18m Euros is the quote). Hector links still abound (£22m) and so too Jetro Willems (very similar to Moreno according to one serious LFC fan living over there).
Karius will hopefully only be out for around 8 weeks, not a great start assuming he was going to be starting the season as first choice.
Hard to say on left back, we have been linked with a few but the fact our supposed main target was Chilwell who I suspect may not have been in the starting eleven anyway suggests Klopp for some reason is going to have Moreno as first choice.
Hopefully that's not the case and he signs someone else because defensively he is a liability.
In fairness you've finished roughly around 7th/8th every season - bar the Suarez season - for the past seven years so you could indicate it as the norm.
Personally, I think Klopp has made some astute business this window. Not outstanding by any means and I think some signings are questionable, like Wijnaldum, as your strength lies in #10's anyway with Coutinho, Firmino and Lallana. All being better players aside from Lallana.
I think where your intelligent business lies, is in Klopp's understanding of the European leagues and I was half-expecting these kinda signings after his appointment. Grujic looks impressive, Karius is an upgrade and Matip is smart business on a free. Obviously can't legislate for Karius' unfortunate injury but that shit happens. Mane undeniably adds pace to an attack previously looking bereft of it.
Having no European competition is a huge bonus too. The biggest factor id say. There are a few teams with superior squad and equal, if not better managers. Those sides being Arsenal, Citt, Chelsea and United with Spurs on a par squad wise. I do think Liverpool should compete for top four though. I'm expecting a 5th or 6th place finish when all is said and done though.
Must admit, I envy how much energy Klopp (and Pochettino) puts in developing youths during preseason.
Hopefully Tuanzebe and Mensah will be given game time in Europe League this season.
Hopefully Tuanzebe and Mensah will be given game time in Europe League this season.
De Sciglio at 18m would be a bargain.
It's quit shocking actually. He's only 2nd or 3rd choice at Milan and yet is chosen over the two ahead of him for the national team !
I think Wijnaldum will be used in more of a central, or perhaps left sided midfield role. I don't think he is competing with Coutinho and Firmino. Mane also probably in the starting eleven probably means it is hard to see how Lallana fits in though.
It's never easy at this stage to see how well we have done in the transfer market, Klavan, Grujic and Mane all have looked good in pre-season.
However, Karius and Matip have been injured and Wijnaldum only featured in the last game.
How the team shapes up we will have to see, from the sounds of it Henderson will be like having a new player , he was either injured or playing whilst carrying an injury for a lot of last season. I know many on here don't rate him anyway but he could be a big player for us now he is back fit - Ings and Gomez will also be like 2 new signings.
Where we will finish, haven't a clue - really tough league this year. I think we will score a lot of goals but you need to stop them going in the other end, and we still haven't signed a left back!
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'Link' where? As far as I can see the worst of the worst Italian sources only. Pretty sure there's nothing to it, and you won't get him.
Most links throughout the Summer are BS - no matter from a decent or dubious source. It's the nature of the beast.
Are you saying it doesn't matter whether an item is from a decent or dubious source?
You referred to a Di Sciglio link, and I called BS. I wouldn't have called BS if you'd have referred to a less BS link.
Let a man dream. It's summer, ffs.
Sorry.
I'm saying, but you don't seem to catch on too quick, that no matter the source 90-95% of rumours, quotes, links don't work out, whether the original source is dubious (yet still get some transfers right) or solid (yet still get more wrong than right since it's the nature of the Summer). There, wasn't too difficult was it.
I think it's more fun to debate, laugh and wum in the Pool threads than try to speculate shitcoats XI or guessing which shirt number Griezmann will get when we sign him. Especially during the silly season.
Some sources are a bit more reliable than others, eg the Mane rumours were pretty spot on after the initial noise. De Sciglio would be class though...
So you ARE saying the Daily Star and Calciomercato (which are the outlets linking you to Di sciglio) have the same percentage of accuracy as other, more reputable souces, namely 5%-10%.
That's obvious nonsense, and a very lazy position to retreat to when being called out.
You are extremely naive. Unless it's a source very close to the club (i.e. not national newspapers) then the same rumours and tips circulate around and around. Retreating ? WTF are you on about ? I didn't claim the source as dubious or solid - simply there was a report linking us, which is true. So get off your high fecking horse.
Nah, I won't get off just yet. I'm in full gallop.
You were the one saying you were 'linked' to Di Sciglio.
You didn't bother to mention how shitty the sources of this link were, instead you qualified it by saying how 'delighted' you'd be to get him.
Then, when I added the observation that you're speculaling based on pretty much the shittiest sources around, you answered along the lines that all sources are equally shitty anyway.
That's what I called a lazy retreat.
I'm right, you're wrong.