Of course people give a feck about Net Spend. Except those teams where it's irrelevant to the financial strength of the club (United, City and to an extent, Chelsea), for everyone else it matters and enables those teams to spend more, nobody said we haven't spent that money. We've done good business on the sales side so far this season with barely a loss so far (and a small profit on some sales) and are expected to recover ca. £90-100m. Quoting Net Spend gives you the whole story and not half of it, it's quoted enough on RC when it suits the rhetoric.
Liverpool 2016/17 - Performance and chat thread.
- Thread starter Parry Gallister
- Start date
Of course net spend matters, it's basic economics.
I'm hoping we get a new LB in as soon as possible as Moreno really hasn't got what we require. Sakho and Lovren were starting to look good under Klopp before Sakho's time out and I think Matip will come in and do well.
I think with the goalkeeper upgrade, we'll see less fcuk ups from the defence as in theory they'll have more confidence in the guy behind them. If we can stop conceding stupid goals which have caused no end of problems for us the last few years, then we'll climb a few places at least.
I honestly think that Karius will be viewed as our most influential signing come the end of the season
I think with the goalkeeper upgrade, we'll see less fcuk ups from the defence as in theory they'll have more confidence in the guy behind them. If we can stop conceding stupid goals which have caused no end of problems for us the last few years, then we'll climb a few places at least.
I honestly think that Karius will be viewed as our most influential signing come the end of the season
Wouldn't worry too much about Wijnaldum, I think he is going to be a very good player for you guys. Regarding the other positions, it will be wait and see.
Actually net spend is important, how much you get for selling your players is equally important to how much you spend for getting new players.
If you buy for €100m but you also sell for €80m, you have spend alot less than a club that buys for €50m and didn't sell anything.
Both get reported in the annular financial report and have a big impact on the profit or loss the club has.
In fact when comparing the spending of 2 clubs, one should always look at net spend because it paints a much fairer picture then only talking about 1 side of the medal. In fact if you want to have a really decent comparrison, you would alsdo need to account for the delta in personnel costs. Because yearly player wages are tremendous cost, one should always look at how much wage costs increase or decrease because of selling/buying players.
He is building a nice team imho.
He spent £34 million on Mane.
That more than Spurs,West Ham,Leicester City,Southampton have ever spent on a single player.
Four teams that finished ahead of Liverpool.
Bit of a myth that he is doing all this on the cheap.
No, it really isn't especially when you're talking how much a manager has spent. The only time it's relevant is when you're forced into selling a player i.e Suarez. Klopp has spent a lots of money. Period. Just because he had a bit of dross he could get rid of doesn't change that.
It's just LFC fans trying to paint Klopp in a better light. I can already see how this is going to be the excuse going forward.
Think these are the ones that need to be registered for squad:
Allen, Joseph Michael (HG)
Balotelli, Mario Barwuah
Flanagan, Jonathan (HG)
Marković, Lazar
Pezzini Leiva, Lucas
Allen will be gone and Flanagan looks like he's going out on loan. Other three could be trickier to get rid of, and doesn't look like Benteke is going so didn't include him. Wijnaldum to be added to squad list when signed.
- Barbosa de Oliveira, Roberto Firmino
- Benteke, Christian
- Can, Emre
- Clyne, Nathaniel Edwin (HG)
- Coutinho Correia, Philippe
- Henderson, Jordan Brian (HG)
- Ilori, Tiago
- Ings, Daniel William John (HG)
- Karius, Loris
- Klavan, Ragnar
- Lallana, Adam David (HG)
- Lovren, Dejan
- Mané, Sadio
- Manninger, Alexander
- Matip, Joël Andre Job
- Mignolet, Simon
- Milner, James Philip (HG)
- Moreno Perez, Alberto
- Sakho, Mamadou
- Smith, Bradley Shaun (HG)
- Stewart, Kevin Linford (HG)
- Sturridge, Daniel (HG)
- Wisdom, Andre Alexander Shaquille (HG)
Allen, Joseph Michael (HG)
Balotelli, Mario Barwuah
Flanagan, Jonathan (HG)
Marković, Lazar
Pezzini Leiva, Lucas
Allen will be gone and Flanagan looks like he's going out on loan. Other three could be trickier to get rid of, and doesn't look like Benteke is going so didn't include him. Wijnaldum to be added to squad list when signed.
You have to be a moron to ignore net spend.
Unless you have an unlimited budget it's very relevant. That doesn't mean he's used the money well though, you're blending together two different concepts.
It remains important always
Managers job in the market is two sided:
1 bring players to the club that you need and try and get the best deal quality/price
2 sell players that you need and try to get the best deal quality/price
Net Spend looks at both sides and always paints the fairest picture
If a manager needs to clear out alot of dross and he isn't good at getting a good price for them then Net Spend will paint the same picture as looking at Gross Spend because there won't be alot of incoming money
If a manager needs to clear out alot of dross and he is very good at getting good price for them then Net Spend will reflect this and Gross Spend won't
A business is run on P&L - not just L, so from a financial perspective it most definitely matters.
From a footballing perspective - if two teams both spend £200m in one window but one also sells players worth £150m which one is likely to have most improved the strength of its squad?
Net spend matters.
But, should a manager get credit for selling the players he never bought in the first place? Rodgers took the sole blame for them performing poorly for more than half a season under klopp, while liverpool fans gave him a free pass.
We know for sure, Klopp has spent money on these players. Net spend should not be taken into account for him this window. Net spend should apply to Liverpool as a club, but as a manager Gross spend should be attributed to klopp this window.
Your thoughts?
It's OK Akash. We get it, not everyone understands finance. Just please promise me when the time comes you'll hire an accountant to handle your own !
He should not be held accountable for the poor quality players his predecessor got, but if he can shift them off for a good price than that is a job well done he should get the credit for (which he gets in Net spend), if it is difficult to sell them for a good price then it could be fair to give him a bit of leeway for his first season and just look at Gross spend.
But it is ridiculous to blame Rodgers for Liverpool performing poorly when Klopp is in charge. I mean the manager in charge is responsible from day 1.
I know Liverpool fans aren't renown for being too bright but this is stretching it even for you.
Klopp has spent a load of money in the transfer window. No amount of dressing up with net spend statistics that the scousers are so fond of will change that. Him receiving money for dross he didn't buy or need doesn't make one bit of difference.
Depends entirely on the players sold which is the point I made when I mentioned Suarez but has gone over people's head. Liverpool getting rid of shit like Allen or Skrtel does not make them any worse than if they had kept them.
And 4 teams with relatively settled sides who are still spending (with the exception of Spurs - with 6 weeks remaining in the transfer window).
Actually it was £30m+add-ons for Mane but use the Sky version if you like. West Ham made a public £32.5m offer for Batshuayi (sp.), we all know Spurs would have no compunction to spend that or more if required and it's no surprise LC or Saints haven't. I don't think anyone suggested Klopp is doing this on the cheap ? Did you see that somewhere in this thread ? You can't put your mark on a team/squad without spending, every single new manager in history does that (possible exaggeration).
You are REALLY struggling with this aren't you. Please note that no-one has said he hasn't spent a lot of money ! Go to bed, I promise your brain will hurt less when you wake up
You are REALLY struggling with this aren't you. Please note that no-one has said he hasn't spent a lot of money ! Go to bed, I promise your brain will hurt less when you wake up
Not really, no. Your inability to understand simple basics is quite amusing however
As is your inability to read given the whole thing started with another of your deluded follower claiming Klopp hadn't spent a load of money. I'd advise you to sleep as well but somehow I don't think that's going to make too much of a difference.
Except coach doesn't negotiate the price for players. There are designated people who do all the negotiations.
I'm not really sure what to make of our transfers. I guess it's one of those wait and see scenarios. On paper I don't think the players we've signed are a huge step up from what we already have. I do trust Klopp though which is why I'm conflicted on it.
I don't think I should have expected much better given our limitations in terms of offering players an attractive package.
I think we'll end up between 4th and 6th as things stand (depending on what others do in the window).
I don't think I should have expected much better given our limitations in terms of offering players an attractive package.
I think we'll end up between 4th and 6th as things stand (depending on what others do in the window).
We've also sold Canos to Norwich (£2.5m rising to £4m), Sinclair (£4m), Rossiter (forget the fee, £1m I think) and Luis Alberto is up for sale too (ca. £7m). Wisdom for sure will be sold too. Bogdan has gone to Wigan on loan and Ward to Huddersfield. I do think Benteke will depart, he's been told in no uncertain terms there is no place of him and if not before I would expect him to depart in the last couple of weeks before the window closes and teams start getting desperate. But of course he may not. Sheyi Ojo may make the squad.
I will try and spell it out for you:
If I have 200m in the bank. And will have another 200m next year. I can just spend 200m and this will be the net addition. I don't have to worry about losses or thinning out the squad.
If I only have 50m in the bank, that is what can I spend. However, if I have 300m in values, I can sell some of these to make new investments. Maybe even as much as 200m. However, next year, the situation will be similar. If I want to compete with the rival who starts with 200m in the bank, I can not take losses on my new investments. And it is paramount that my values grow more than theirs.
Granted, this is a better situation than the one who has 50m in the bank and only 100m in the bank as they have fewer assets to move around and re invest. And in this regard net spend doesn't tell the whole story.
Still, your argument is stupid.
Yeah I didn't put down the ones who have left like Bogdan and Ward, or those who don't need to be registered like Ojo or Grujic. Done a good job on shifting players as you had 25 registered last season with Balotelli and Markovic not included as they were out on loan.
I think Wijnaldum is a great signing for them.
Given the rest of your I'm going to go ahead and presume you've no idea what was being argued in the first place.
Confirmed
I think it all depends on how well these signing settle in the manager's plan. On paper none of them brings any exceptional game changing ability (maybe Mane does to some extent), but can get the results by playing as a team.
The only worry If I were liverpool fan would be, If signings like Wijnaldum are really Klopp's first choice targets or were these the backup targets being bought because the first choice refused to join? What is your opinion regarding the same?
Christian Benteke is ready to stay and fight for his place at Liverpool with his future at Anfield still in limbo.
Crystal Palace and West Ham United are keen to sign Benteke but Liverpool are at risk of pricing the Belgium striker out of a move by trying to recoup all of the £32.5 million they paid Aston Villa for the player last summer.
Crystal Palace and West Ham United are keen to sign Benteke but Liverpool are at risk of pricing the Belgium striker out of a move by trying to recoup all of the £32.5 million they paid Aston Villa for the player last summer.
Can see us scoring a lot of goals this season the way our attacking options are looking.
Liverpool's signings haven't impressed me. Karius is probably going to be their best buy simply because of how shit Mignolet was/is. Mane could go either way, he has it in him to become an excellent attacker but I'm not fully convinced by his ability to consistently score goals. Wijnaldum is decent but £25m is excessive, he wasn't particularly good in a Newcastle side that got relegated which is hardly a glowing endorsement of his ability. Still, I have faith in Klopp's judgement, so I won't be writing them off just yet as far as top four goes this season.
Reminds me of the 2014 summer.
Brought a bunch of average and unheralded players and celebrated as if it was a success because their net spend was only about £20-30M.
Brought a bunch of average and unheralded players and celebrated as if it was a success because their net spend was only about £20-30M.
No one is really heralding anything.
It is mostly "wait and see with fingers crossed. I trust he knows what he is doing".
Net and gross spend are figures which don't fluctuate according to quality. You're now talking about value for money - something different.
It's clear Gotze refused to sign for us, and Gladbach wouldn't sell Dahoud this summer.
Apart from that I think they're all first choice signings so I'm not too worried about that.
My concern is are these players going to be good enough to get us top four? The answer to that question remains to be seen.
There are definite improvements to our back line (Matip and Karius) and we already had an excellent RB in Clyne. We really need to address LB though ASAP. So I would expect to see less goals conceded, how much we improve will also depend to an extent on how well the midfield can improve on shielding the back line of course.and concede many goals too.
Over 2.5 goals will be a great bet
Jürgen Klopp started upfront for #LFC tast night. A team of backroom members were taking on staff from Stanford University. Our backroom staff drew 1-1 with Stanford University staff. Physio Ruben Pons got our goal.
Full Team: Achterberg, French, Howarth, Krawietz, Haughan, Partridge, Kingston, Pons, O'Boyle, Ljinders, Klopp.
Full Team: Achterberg, French, Howarth, Krawietz, Haughan, Partridge, Kingston, Pons, O'Boyle, Ljinders, Klopp.
I can't see anything great with what Liverpool has done this summer if they expect top 4. The signing is pretty much the same with what they have done previously (Lallana, Sakho, Toure, Lovren, Allen, Ings). It's not good enough for top 4 and as an United fans I'm happy to see that 
.
So now it depends on how Klopp is able to get the best out of his players. Although they have creativity, pace and power in Mane, Firmino, Coutinho, Sturridge, Benteke it is pointless if there is no consistency and not able to stay fit for whole season. When you had Suarez, you could build a team around him for top 4 but with the current squad I don't think there is anyone good enough to build around with. Sturridge stays fit is probably their only hope.
. So now it depends on how Klopp is able to get the best out of his players. Although they have creativity, pace and power in Mane, Firmino, Coutinho, Sturridge, Benteke it is pointless if there is no consistency and not able to stay fit for whole season. When you had Suarez, you could build a team around him for top 4 but with the current squad I don't think there is anyone good enough to build around with. Sturridge stays fit is probably their only hope.
I can't see anything great with what Liverpool has done this summer if they expect top 4. The signing is pretty much the same with what they have done previously (Lallana, Sakho, Toure, Lovren, Allen, Ings). It's not good enough for top 4 and as an United fans I'm happy to see that
So now it depends on how Klopp is able to get the best out of his players. Although they have creativity, pace and power in Mane, Firmino, Coutinho, Sturridge, Benteke it is pointless if there is no consistency and not able to stay fit for whole season. When you had Suarez, you could build a team around him for top 4 but with the current squad I don't think there is anyone good enough to build around with. Sturridge stays fit is probably their only hope.
erm okay then - haven't a clue what your reference to Lallana, Sakho, Toure, Lovren, Allen, Ings has anything to do with who we have signed so far.
Our new signings are completely different, signed by a different manager for different reasons! Toure and soon to be Allen aren't even LFC players anymore.
What the heck has Toure got to do with any of them and what is the comparison?
Weird....