Liverpool 2016/17 - Performance and chat thread.

balaks said:
There is your problem and what I am trying to highlight.
Click to expand...

I would guess on the left as part of a 3 man midfield. Klopp has tried to get Dahoud for the middle but failed so far, maybe he will get someone else in, unless he is happy with Can and Henderson, or maybe this new kid Grujic will get a chance (he has looked great in pre-season so far).

We do lack quality in the CM position. Bur he knows that. Allen is being sold and possibly Lucas too.
ideally he would have Wijnaldum/Dahoud/Henderson or Can.

It might take him more than 1 summer window to get everyone he wants out and everyone he wants in.
 
I think Klopp buy pieces of the puzzle for his tactics.

Sissoko (are you in for him?) is underwhelming, and can go hot and cold like no one else, but there is no doubt about him being like a duracell rabbit on methamphetamine, which will suit Klopp's system to a tee. Mane is also rapid and works really hard, which also suits Klopp's system. Also Wijnaldum is rapid and really hard working.

I think Klopp is shopping okayish for the restraints he got. Liverpool just dont have the pull we have, either commercially, financially or in any other sense. We can offset the no CL disadvantage by paying extreme salaries, Pool can't do that. We can "force" clubs to sell with extreme bids, Pool can't do that.

Will they be able to overtake us, City, Chelsea, Arse? No I don't think so, eventually the level of market you are shopping in will start to become visisble in the end product, but I think they are far better off with Klopp than they would be with anyone else shopping from the same market.
 
Last edited:
Robbie Boy said:
Fourty games last season with a return of 11 goals and 5 assists is hardly that much of a goal threat (considering 4 of those goals came in the one match). His scoring record for Holland is hardly anything to write home about, either. I feel he's a very mediocre player and for an attacking player, his output isn't too amazing.
Click to expand...

That stat is better than any of our other central midfielders, and bear in mind that was with a side that was relegated.
 
johnny boy said:
That stat is better than any of our other central midfielders, and bear in mind that was with a side that was relegated.
Click to expand...

Where do you think he will play? He certainly isn't a CM, anyway. He played his best football on the wing in a ML / AML position for Newcastle and didn't look as good when played as a number 10.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Where do you think he will play? He certainly isn't a CM, anyway. He played his best football on the wing in a ML / AML position for Newcastle and didn't look as good when played as a number 10.
Click to expand...

I honestly don't know and maybe my central midfielder comment was off the mark - but classing him in the same bracket as Henderson, Can, Lucas, Allen and co he clearly offers more of a goal threat.
If he is competing with Lallana, Coutinho and Firmino it's a different argument perhaps.

He scored more goals for a relegated team than any of our players in the league last season.

I was thinking he might play on the left of a midfield 3 myself. But I am not sure.
 
They have a decent front four that are direct and have plenty of pace. Apart from that they are abysmal; awful midfield, awful defence and an unknown keeper which could go either way.

I think they'll have days where they destroy teams but they wont have the consistency to mount any sort of meaningful challenge.
 
johnny boy said:
I honestly don't know and maybe my central midfielder comment was off the mark - but classing him in the same bracket as Henderson, Can, Lucas, Allen and co he clearly offers more of a goal threat.
He scored more goals than all of them put together last season.

If he is competing with Lallana, Coutinho and Firmino it's a different argument perhaps.

I was thinking he might play on the left of a midfield 3 myself. But I am not sure.
Click to expand...

Aye, well I was more comparing his goal scoring record against the likes of Coutinho, Firmino etc, as he played in more of an advanced role for Newcastle last season.

He was definitely more effective on the left for Newcastle in a more advanced role, but he operated as a number 10 at times, too. I'm not too sure how he would fare in a 3 man midfield. We attempted that experiment with Di Maria, and although he looked good at times, I never felt it would be sustainable against better teams.
 
Rafateria said:
I'm sorry but did you honestly expect us to be spending the same amounts of money as you three ? Seriously ? If not then what did you expect ?

We are buying (with one exception) young players (18 - 25) who have good records already and who the scouting team (inc. Klopp, Buvac etc.) feel will suit our tactics or / and have room for substantial improvement. IMHO every one of the transfers so far has been good business and on paper looks to be an upgrade on the previous incumbents. Proof of the pudding will be in the eating of course but we should at least give them time before declaring them inadequate. Wasn't every United fan thrilled at the Di Maria and Falcao signings for example ? Weren't they supposed to carry you to the PL title ? Sometimes even the most exciting transfer can flop and occasionally those not so vaunted triumph (all hail Leicester FC). Whether you pay £100m or £5m there are no guarantees either way.
Click to expand...
Forget if I thought you would be spending the same as us, you are not in the same league as to what we can comfortably spend. I also have never said what you spend dictates on how good the players you sign are. What I did however expect was you to sign some proven quality. I really thought gotze for example you might sign, or even try for Reus. I don't believe for a minute you are not underwhelmed by your signings. Because bar Mane, I would be. It just seems like Liverpool are buying very average players, when their fans believe they are a top club.

I am also under no illusion how the Di Maria and Falcao transfers turned out, however football is entertainment, and I watch Manchester United to be entertained, and I am ecstatic my club has the funds and willingness to take massive risks in the transfer market. Yes Ibra or Pogba may flop, but I want the worlds best players at my club and those two are two of the best. Martial was a massive risk and a massive waste of money too remember.

Its like Liverpool fans will accept anything because you have the almighty Klopp as manager, that in itself speaks volumes of how far you have fallen.
 
An Irish Red said:
They have a decent front four that are direct and have plenty of pace. Apart from that they are abysmal; awful midfield, awful defence and an unknown keeper which could go either way.

I think they'll have days where they destroy teams but they wont have the consistency to mount any sort of meaningful challenge.
Click to expand...
I just can repeat that i as a Bundeligawatcher find Matip is a great CB, great in defending, great with the ball, strong and dangerous in headballs. And Karius is a really good keeper! In England they seem to be rare :lol:
 
johnny boy said:
He scored more goals for a relegated team than any of our players in the league last season.
Click to expand...
Similar kind of arguments were thrown about Benteke signing (scored x no of goals for Villa, a side fighting relegation), when people said he would flop at Liverpool. That is no definite indicator. Benteke is on the market now, so look how it panned out.

BTW - Wijnaldum is very average, he would be no better than someone like Lallana. Liverpool seem to be on mission to buy anyone who scores a goal or two against them in the league.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Aye, well I was more comparing his goal scoring record against the likes of Coutinho, Firmino etc, as he played in more of an advanced role for Newcastle last season.

He was definitely more effective on the left for Newcastle in a more advanced role, but he operated as a number 10 at times, too. I'm not too sure how he would fare in a 3 man midfield. We attempted that experiment with Di Maria, and although he looked good at times, I never felt it would be sustainable against better teams.
Click to expand...

Fair enough like I say not sure where he will play - just got to trust the manager.

baanke laal said:
Similar kind of arguments were thrown about Benteke signing (scored x no of goals for Villa, a side fighting relegation), when people said he would flop at Liverpool. That is no definite indicator. Benteke is on the market now, so look how it panned out.

BTW - Wijnaldum is very average, he would be no better than someone like Lallana. Liverpool seem to be on mission to buy anyone who scores a goal or two against them in the league.
Click to expand...

I agree about Benteke, never suited to the way we play but Klopp didn't sign him and obviously doesn't want him.

All we can do is put faith in his judgement , when the season progresses we can be more considered in our opinion.

It's his first summer window - he doesn't have the mega millions Mourinho has to throw around, clearly lots of players will be leaving this summer and he has to re-build our squad.
 
I think they might get top 4.
I say that because I think they will score goals.
Don't know the stats but didn't they score far more than anyone else from January till the end of the season?
 
Pie Sports Booze ‏@piesportsbooze 2h2 hours ago
Liverpool have now spent £235m on players from Saints, Newcastle, Sunderland & Villa in the last 5 years!
1f602.png
1f602.png
1f602.png


Is that true?!!?
 
Adisa said:
I think they might get top 4.
I say that because I think they will score goals.
Don't know the stats but didn't they score far more than anyone else from January till the end of the season?
Click to expand...

IMO they havent a mission of getting into the top 4 - best they can hope for will be top 6.
 
balaks said:
IMO they havent a mission of getting into the top 4 - best they can hope for will be top 6.
Click to expand...
They finished 5 points off fourth last season despite abandoning the premier league as early as April.
We have seen over the last few years that, teams that score goals tend to do very well and imo, they will get goals. The way they play means they will get goals and with no European football to worry about, they can play with their high intensity week in week out.
I think they will surprise a lot of people.
 
Adisa said:
They finished 5 points off fourth last season despite abandoning the premier league as early as April.
We have seen over the last few years that, teams that score goals tend to do very well and imo, they will get goals. The way they play means they will get goals and with no European football to worry about, they can play with their high intensity week in week out.
I think they will surprise a lot of people.
Click to expand...

That was with Chelsea, Man Utd, etc. all underperforming and all of which who are strengthening their squads significantly more than Liverpool are at the moment. The lack of European football may be a factor but I think the majority of the clubs who will be fighting for top 4 now have strong enough squads to cope with it. Liverpool will certainly surprise me if they get in the top 4, i'll eat my hat if they do. (and its a big hat)
 
johnny boy said:
I agree about Benteke, never suited to the way we play but Klopp didn't sign him and obviously doesn't want him.
Click to expand...
This fact was also mentioned multiple times by the posters here (Benteke would not suite the giggitypress style), but was instantly dismissed by your lot here by the claims "Klopp wanted to sign Benteke for Dortmund few seasons back, so of course he would be able to play in his system."

Look how that panned out.

Now our opinion on Wijnaldum being an average and a wrong signing is dismissed again by you lot. It was the same with Caroll, Balotelli, Lallana, Benteke etc and was dismissed as nonsense.
 
baanke laal said:
This fact was also mentioned multiple times by the posters here (Benteke would not suite the giggitypress style), but was instantly dismissed by your lot here by the claims "Klopp wanted to sign Benteke for Dortmund few seasons back, so of course he would be able to play in his system."

Look how that panned out.

Now our opinion on Wijnaldum being an average and a wrong signing is dismissed again by you lot. It was the same with Caroll, Balotelli, Lallana, Benteke etc and was dismissed as nonsense.
Click to expand...

Some Liverpool supporters I know still feel the need to defend Carroll as the best player in the air in the PL. Like as if that justifies their purchase.
 
baanke laal said:
This fact was also mentioned multiple times by the posters here (Benteke would not suite the giggitypress style), but was instantly dismissed by your lot here by the claims "Klopp wanted to sign Benteke for Dortmund few seasons back, so of course he would be able to play in his system."

Look how that panned out.

Now our opinion on Wijnaldum being an average and a wrong signing is dismissed again by you lot. It was the same with Caroll, Balotelli, Lallana, Benteke etc and was dismissed as nonsense.
Click to expand...

It's not being dismissed. Us lot think he adds something that is missing, a goal threat from midfield.
He hasn't played for us lot yet. Klopp obviously rates him, us lot and you lot will see how he performs and then make judgement in due course.
 
Any of our resident Liverpool fans any idea at how they will line up next year?

I'd guess

Sturridge
Coutinho - Firmino - Mane
Can - ????
???? - Sakho - ???? - Clyne
Karius​

Surely Wijnaldum will not play next to Can in midfield. Would be so weak defensively.
 
Bwuk said:
Any of our resident Liverpool fans any idea at how they will line up next year?

I'd guess

Sturridge
Coutinho - Firmino - Mane
Can - ????
???? - Sakho - ???? - Clyne
Karius​

Surely Wijnaldum will not play next to Can in midfield. Would be so weak defensively.
Click to expand...
I am guessing Milner/Henderson would be deployed with Can in the midfield.
 
Bwuk said:
Any of our resident Liverpool fans any idea at how they will line up next year?

I'd guess

Sturridge
Coutinho - Firmino - Mane
Can - ????
???? - Sakho - ???? - Clyne
Karius​

Surely Wijnaldum will not play next to Can in midfield. Would be so weak defensively.
Click to expand...

Haven't a clue. Sakho won't start the season as he is injured.
Lots of possibilities my guess is below assuming he doesn't get a CM in and hoping we don't start with Moreno.
I am also not sure Henderson is a captain, not that we have many other choices.

Sturridge
Coutinho - Mane
Wijnaldum Henderson
Can
new LB - Lovren - Matip - Clyne
Karius

​
 
Last edited:
I see Wijnaldum as a Dembele type signing. Someone dynamic who can play at the tip of the midfield. We've used 4-3-3 throughout pre-season so far, so there does seem to be a place for him in that system.

baanke laal said:
Similar kind of arguments were thrown about Benteke signing (scored x no of goals for Villa, a side fighting relegation), when people said he would flop at Liverpool. That is no definite indicator. Benteke is on the market now, so look how it panned out.

BTW - Wijnaldum is very average, he would be no better than someone like Lallana. Liverpool seem to be on mission to buy anyone who scores a goal or two against them in the league.
Click to expand...

Benteke has still scored at a very decent rate, he just didn't ever suit the way we play.

One noticeable change this window is that Klopp is signing players whom fit the profile that you would associate with his style of play. Fast, powerful players with technical ability.

Rodgers went from Sturridge and Suarez to three lumps in Balotelli, Lambert and Benteke.
 
Last edited:
Wijnaldum played central midfield when he was player of the year in Holland and got 11 goals from 33 games. Judging him on his first season in England with a relegation side he was still the best player for is a bit rash.

Can is clearly being schooled as the defensive midfielder in Klopp system and was doing it very well once he got going.

I think we will play plenty of games with two in midfield with one of Henderson, Grujic, and wijnaldum partnering Can.

If Grujic can adapt quickly, him and Can could be a great pairing. Plenty of height, strength and ball skill between them.

We scored loads of goals once we got going last season and wijnaldum, Ings and Mane will only add to that. Big area of improvement is defence. Hopefully karius, Matip and more training time will set things right. If we shore it up, we will finish top four I think.

What is clear is that we have added a lot of height, pace and end product to the side. Should compliment our tippy tippy players nicely.
 
We could have got him for 15 mill last season before he went Newcastle, but I'm quite happy we have signed him. With the addition of players like him, Mane, Matip and Karius we have players who will straightaway improve our squad. I'm not saying we will win the league but we are certainly finishing higher than eighth this season. So excited for the season now.
 
B20 said:
Wijnaldum played central midfield when he was player of the year in Holland and got 11 goals from 33 games. Judging him on his first season in England with a relegation side he was still the best player for is a bit rash.

Can is clearly being schooled as the defensive midfielder in Klopp system and was doing it very well once he got going.

I think we will play plenty of games with two in midfield with one of Henderson, Grujic, and wijnaldum partnering Can.

If Grujic can adapt quickly, him and Can could be a great pairing. Plenty of height, strength and ball skill between them.

We scored loads of goals once we got going last season and wijnaldum, Ings and Mane will only add to that. Big area of improvement is defence. Hopefully karius, Matip and more training time will set things right. If we shore it up, we will finish top four I think.

What is clear is that we have added a lot of height, pace and end product to the side. Should compliment our tippy tippy players nicely.
Click to expand...

I had him in my fantasy team last year as he was scoring at a decent clip for the first third/half of the season. I was amazed at the vitriol Newcastle fans had for him though, the true geordie on youtube is a good example, they really didn't rate him too highly.


Karius

Clyne Matip Sakho Moreno?

Can Hendo

Mane Firmino Coutinho/Windy

Studge

IMO, on paper, isn't a top four side, more of a good Europa level like Tottenham from a couple of years back. Obviously football isn't played on paper though.
 
johnny boy said:
Haven't a clue. Sakho won't start the season as he is injured.
Lots of possibilities my guess is below assuming he doesn't get a CM in and hoping we don't start with Moreno.
I am also not sure Henderson is a captain, not that we have many other choices.

Sturridge
Coutinho - Mane
Wijnaldum Henderson
Can
new LB - Lovren - Matip - Clyne
Karius

​
Click to expand...

I reckon Origi will oust Sturridge as first choice before long. Have absolutely no confidence in the latter's ability to stay fit and even when fit he looks like he's completely lost all acceleration.
 
Hehe. Wijnaldum is a bit shite albeit not as shite as the even more expensive Sissoko.
 
Sp00ks11 said:
.........What I did however expect was you to sign some proven quality. I really thought gotze for example you might sign, or even try for Reus. I don't believe for a minute you are not underwhelmed by your signings.......
Click to expand...
So yeah as I thought. Another FIFA game player who doesn't understand the real world. If you don't know by now why Gotze didn't come to Liverpool you don't follow football either.
Moving on .....
 
Rafateria said:
So yeah as I thought. Another FIFA game player who doesn't understand the real world. If you don't know by now why Gotze didn't come to Liverpool you don't follow football either.
Moving on .....
Click to expand...
What an intelligent reply.

Deep down I knew Gotze wouldn't go to Liverpool, (which top player currently would). However I expected you having the almighty Klopp to atleast try..

Enjoy mediocrity. I shall enjoy Fifa :devil:
 
balaks said:
I'm aware there is still time for things to change and there may be a signing yet who could change my opinion but right now there is a clear imbalance in the squad and you have just spent another £25million on a player who imo does not offer you anything better than you already have in a position were you already are stacked with players.
Click to expand...
Well you're are right about one thing. It's just your opinion. Whereas personally if Klopp & Buvac think he's right / an upgrade for us then, until or if ever proven wrong, I'm happy to accept their professional choice over the bias of RC haters.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Fourty games last season with a return of 11 goals and 5 assists is hardly that much of a goal threat (considering 4 of those goals came in the one match). His scoring record for Holland is hardly anything to write home about, either..............
Click to expand...
If you are going to make a statement about someone's record you better be sure you know your facts. You don't.

His record for PSV in his last season there was 5 goals 2 assists at home and 9 goals 1 assist away (plus 2 goals away, zero at home, in the EL). This also puts to bed his 'Homer' tag on RC, I think we can blame Newcastle for being shote away from home for at least the greater part of his lack of away goals, in his FIRST season in the PL.
 
Rafateria said:
If you are going to make a statement about someone's record you better be sure you know your facts. You don't.

His record for PSV in his last season there was 5 goals 2 assists at home and 9 goals 1 assist away (plus 2 goals away, zero at home, in the EL). This also puts to bed his 'Homer' tag on RC, I think we can blame Newcastle for being shote away from home for at least the greater part of his lack of away goals, in his FIRST season in the PL.
Click to expand...

:lol:

Did you ever consider the possibility that the reason why Newcastle were shite away was because of shite like him in the team?
 
slig said:
I just can repeat that i as a Bundeligawatcher find Matip is a great CB, great in defending, great with the ball, strong and dangerous in headballs. And Karius is a really good keeper! In England they seem to be rare :lol:
Click to expand...
Your opinion is invalid for most on RC because it is not anti-Liverpool. You should know by now that ANY player we buy automatically turns to shite !
 
Wijnaldum will be a good signing based on what I saw at Newcastle, and I think it's best to judge him on the positive part first of his spell with us, rather than the second half where his head was down (the entire team's head was down and the whole club was absolutely toxic in that period). I don't see him as a replacement for Joe Allen's squad place in central midfield in any way though - he was absolutely absent for Newcastle when brought back into central midfield, it's just not a position that suits his style of play at all. His best position last year was given freedom to roam left and right, behind a main striker - that's where all his goals were scroed - and I'd be gobsmacked if he ended up in a different position to that for LFC.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.