Liverpool 2016/17 - Performance and chat thread.

Bwuk said:
Any of our resident Liverpool fans any idea at how they will line up next year?

I'd guess

Sturridge
Coutinho - Firmino - Mane
Can - ????
???? - Sakho - ???? - Clyne
Karius​

Surely Wijnaldum will not play next to Can in midfield. Would be so weak defensively.
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So far I can see it being as below. Though I doubt we've finished in the market and I expect two more players (LB and CM).

......................................Karius

Clyne .............. Matip ................ Lovren/Sakho .... Anyone bar Moreno

............................... Can .............. Milner

............................... Wijnaldum (Grujic)

Mane ........................ Sturridge .......... Coutinho
(Firmino / Lallana)......(Origi/Ings) ... (Firmino / Origi)

I'm really not sure at all where Henderson fits into the team now. Maybe ahead of Grujic if he can overcome his foot injuries but I doubt it and that would suit him anyway.
 
Akash said:
:lol:

Did you ever consider the possibility that the reason why Newcastle were shite away was because of shite like him in the team?
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Hmm let me think about that for a second. No because being voted NL Player of the Year in 2013/14 and even Newcastle's POTY last season, his first in the PL, would seem to indicate you are wrong. Next.
 
skidmark said:
Wijnaldum will be a good signing based on what I saw at Newcastle, and I think it's best to judge him on the positive part first of his spell with us, rather than the second half where his head was down (the entire team's head was down and the whole club was absolutely toxic in that period). I don't see him as a replacement for Joe Allen's squad place in central midfield in any way though - he was absolutely absent for Newcastle when brought back into central midfield, it's just not a position that suits his style of play at all. His best position last year was given freedom to roam left and right, behind a main striker - that's where all his goals were scroed - and I'd be gobsmacked if he ended up in a different position to that for LFC.
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Interesting. Thank you.
 
Rafateria said:
Hmm let me think about that for a second. No because being voted NL Player of the Year and even Newcastle's POTY last season would seem to indicate you are wrong. Next.
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This is almost very cute. 25m for Wijnaldum:lol:

I look forward to him being dogshite next season.
 
I don't really get Liverpool's transfer policy.

Every year they seem to sign several players who were POTY for a bottom-feeder club, and usually the players in question were voted POTY at their club solely because of the 5 goals and 4 assists they got from the two home and away fixtures against Liverpool.

The argument seems to be "IF THEY WERE THAT GOOD FOR (INSERT BOTTOM FEEDER CLUB HERE) IMAGINE HOW GOOD THEY'LL BE SURROUNDED BY BETTER PLAYERS AT LIVERPOOL!!!!111!!"

Then they turn out to be shite, can't be shifted, and a great mystery envelopes the land.
 
Akash said:
Hehe. Wijnaldum is a bit shite albeit not as shite as the even more expensive Sissoko.
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Akash said:
This is almost very cute. 25m for Wijnaldum:lol:

I look forward to him being dogshite next season.
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Akash said:
:lol:

Did you ever consider the possibility that the reason why Newcastle were shite away was because of shite like him in the team?
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Given your latest contributions to the thread it is quite clear you do talk a lot of shite.
 
skidmark said:
Wijnaldum will be a good signing based on what I saw at Newcastle, and I think it's best to judge him on the positive part first of his spell with us, rather than the second half where his head was down (the entire team's head was down and the whole club was absolutely toxic in that period). I don't see him as a replacement for Joe Allen's squad place in central midfield in any way though - he was absolutely absent for Newcastle when brought back into central midfield, it's just not a position that suits his style of play at all. His best position last year was given freedom to roam left and right, behind a main striker - that's where all his goals were scroed - and I'd be gobsmacked if he ended up in a different position to that for LFC.
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Nice - a well constructed and written post. Refreshing.
 
Rafateria said:
If you are going to make a statement about someone's record you better be sure you know your facts. You don't.

His record for PSV in his last season there was 5 goals 2 assists at home and 9 goals 1 assist away (plus 2 goals away, zero at home, in the EL). This also puts to bed his 'Homer' tag on RC, I think we can blame Newcastle for being shote away from home for at least the greater part of his lack of away goals, in his FIRST season in the PL.
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If you want to quote a post then make sure you read it first.

I didn't mention his PSV record as it's completely irrelevant as is Depay's. I will judge on the league he will be playing in next season and the money he cost and I don't think he's particularly good.

Never said anything about his 'home record' either. I said he generally only showed up against weaker opposition.
 
Akash said:
:lol:

Did you ever consider the possibility that the reason why Newcastle were shite away was because of shite like him in the team?
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It's the same defence that the useless Sissoko gets. It's not any of those players faults :wenger:
 
Robbie Boy said:
If you want to quote a post then make sure you read it first.

I didn't mention his PSV record as it's completely irrelevant as is Depay's. ...........
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Can I take it you are suffering from Alzheimer's then ?

Robbie Boy said:
Fourty games last season with a return of 11 goals and 5 assists is hardly that much of a goal threat (considering 4 of those goals came in the one match). His scoring record for Holland is hardly anything to write home about, either..............
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Rafateria said:
Can I take it you are suffering from Alzheimer's then ?
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For Holland? As in the national team :confused:

Had I said 'in Holland', then that's a different story.

Alzheimer's is a very serious disease, not sure why you would use it as an insult on the Internet.
 
Kraftwerker said:
I don't really get Liverpool's transfer policy.

Every year they seem to sign several players who were POTY for a bottom-feeder club, and usually the players in question were voted POTY at their club solely because of the 5 goals and 4 assists they got from the two home and away fixtures against Liverpool.

The argument seems to be "IF THEY WERE THAT GOOD FOR (INSERT BOTTOM FEEDER CLUB HERE) IMAGINE HOW GOOD THEY'LL BE SURROUNDED BY BETTER PLAYERS AT LIVERPOOL!!!!111!!"

Then they turn out to be shite, can't be shifted, and a great mystery envelopes the land.
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Yeah, it has been depressing no doubt. First we had Roy Hodgson who came with zero plan and then bought zero-talent players that would carry out his zero plan. Then Kenny came in and we thought we were all saved with his third man running tactics (oldie but goldie). So he decides to buy Downing and Carroll which basically killed his own tactics and our hopes. Legend, but in this occasion twat.

Finally Rodgers, promising to be younger and more flexible, saw the benefits of Suarez and Studge in the same team so altered his formations and good times were ahead. Suarez leaves so we all expect a similar replacement but he goes balls deep for f*cking Benteke instead of Dybala, etc. Shithead fraud. Had me completely fooled.

Klopp has come in with his high intensity pressing game and sees the likes of Coutinho not able to conform. Nor offer the pace his tactics require. Nor meaningful goals. So he buys players that can do all the above albeit at lower clubs. I'm not that excited by Mane or Wijanuldum but for God's sake please have a plan and follow it properly. Is that asking for so much? So far he is and I'll take as manna right now.
 
OK, some WUM content here, everyone else is at it a little bit (or varying degrees) I think.

For formation I'd suggest a GK, 4 at the back, 1 or 2 from Lucas, Can, Milner, Henderson & 4 or 5 others from the 24 AM's & including 1 crap/injured Striker. Depending on venue. opposition, availability. Innit? Formations are always a fake discussion for me, the only real variation is where/how the width is expected to be provided, full backs with a DM/CB role being created or from someone up the AM/F end. Everything else now is a variation of 5 in MF, supporting 1 striker, get forward in support when you can. For the top teams anyway. (I don't accept Leicester played 4-4-2, maybe Watford did?

What was that Coutinho kinda false LW about? Prompted to ask by the mention of a lack of goals from MF up there somewhere, it did for us anyway, :(. Was that about trying to increase the Not-Lallana goal output from MF, do y'think?

The squad, now near to being finalised presumably, definitely looks better balanced to me. Find a top class specialist DM & it improves again. Get Studge playing at his peak, could be quite dangerous.

I don't see all 4 of Lucas, Can, Milner, Henderson in situ next year. I'd be axing Milner & Lallana & Lucas next year I think, and sinking my major £££££ into getting the best striker I could for the 17-18 Europa campaign.

He's definitely persisting with Moreno y'know, I can feel it in my water, :D.
 
Rafateria said:
So far I can see it being as below. Though I doubt we've finished in the market and I expect two more players (LB and CM).

......................................Karius

Clyne .............. Matip ................ Lovren/Sakho .... Anyone bar Moreno

............................... Can .............. Milner

............................... Wijnaldum (Grujic)

Mane ........................ Sturridge .......... Coutinho
(Firmino / Lallana)......(Origi/Ings) ... (Firmino / Origi)

I'm really not sure at all where Henderson fits into the team now. Maybe ahead of Grujic if he can overcome his foot injuries but I doubt it and that would suit him anyway.
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Wijnaldum ahead of Firmino?
 
Always liked Wijnaldum. Newcastle's best player, no doubt. I would also say he's the best Dutch midfielder in the world right now.

People talk about his consistency - if you've watched him regularly (I watched about 15 games of his last season), he seldom has a bad game, and there are moments in every game when his quality stands out. It's not his fault he's surrounded by poor finishers or midfielders who are not on the same wavelength,or that he has managers who don't bring out the best in him. I have no doubt that when he's surrounded by Coutinho, Sturridge, Firmino and Mane, he'll be more dangerous and effective.

I wouldn't have minded him in our team a season ago. Can assist, score, play centrally and out wide, strong and relatively quick, and a good passer with an eye for tricks and link up play. Very good buy from Liverpool, just the way Mane was a very good buy for them. They might make it to fourth this season if Klopp continues to do what he's good at - get the collective best out of his players.
 
Grujic looks good from the signings they have made. He looks a bit special. I think liverpool will do better than most expect. Klopp is a great trainer and he will train a good team. Their problem will be keeping sturridge fit as he is their best striker. They can challenge for top 4 if sturridge stays fit for full season.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
Always liked Wijnaldum. Newcastle's best player, no doubt. I would also say he's the best Dutch midfielder in the world right now.

People talk about his consistency - if you've watched him regularly (I watched about 15 games of his last season), he seldom has a bad game, and there are moments in every game when his quality stands out. It's not his fault he's surrounded by poor finishers or midfielders who are not on the same wavelength,or that he has managers who don't bring out the best in him. I have no doubt that when he's surrounded by Coutinho, Sturridge, Firmino and Mane, he'll be more dangerous and effective.

I wouldn't have minded him in our team a season ago. Can assist, score, play centrally and out wide, strong and relatively quick, and a good passer with an eye for tricks and link up play. Very good buy from Liverpool, just the way Mane was a very good buy for them. They might make it to fourth this season if Klopp continues to do what he's good at - get the collective best out of his players.
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Good post, hopefully he will do well.

Maradona10 said:
Grujic looks good from the signings they have made. He looks a bit special. I think liverpool will do better than most expect. Klopp is a great trainer and he will train a good team. Their problem will be keeping sturridge fit as he is their best striker. They can challenge for top 4 if sturridge stays fit for full season.
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He has looked good but so did the likes of Voronin in pre-season so it's hard to tell.

He looks a strong lad and obviously has an eye for goal, he could just be a real player especially for the future. How many games he will get in the league it's hard to say.
 
The fact that this thread has quite a bit of active wummery from some United fans indicates that they realise that Klopp isn't some fraud manager who will keep the same dross players that have led us to an 8th place finish last season. He is completey rebuilding the sqaud without spending loads of money and I think some are just over anxious to see Liverpool fail. Edit- yes I realise after posting this that I am on a United forum afterall... as you were.
 
Oga on top. said:
The fact that this thread has quite a bit of active wummery from some United fans indicates that they realise that Klopp isn't some fraud manager who will keep the same dross players that have led us to an 8th place finish last season. He is completey rebuilding the sqaud without spending loads of money and I think some are just over anxious to see Liverpool fail. Edit- yes I realise after posting this that I am on a United forum afterall... as you were.
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He has spent more than Arsenal,Chelsea,City,Spurs,Leicester City,Southampton and West Ham so far.

He has outspent 7 out the 8 teams that finished above him as things stand.
 
thegregster said:
He has spent more than Arsenal,Chelsea,City,Spurs,Leicester City,Southampton and West Ham so far.

He has outspent 7 out the 8 teams that finished above him as things stand.
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Our net spend is looking minimal at the moment due to sales.
 
Now this is a signing I don't understand. I'd say he's better in attack than in midfield. However seeing as they have Firminho and have made a big signing in Mane why they need to bring him in? If they use him in midfield, they are going to be totally disappointed. He's absolutely garbage there. I thought it was one of the problems with Newcastle last season, trying to play a player who doesn't have a great understanding of build up in the middle third. For huge parts of the season he was completely ineffective. Unless he's make goal scoring contributions, he's a non entity.
 
Kraftwerker said:
I don't really get Liverpool's transfer policy.

Every year they seem to sign several players who were POTY for a bottom-feeder club, and usually the players in question were voted POTY at their club solely because of the 5 goals and 4 assists they got from the two home and away fixtures against Liverpool.

The argument seems to be "IF THEY WERE THAT GOOD FOR (INSERT BOTTOM FEEDER CLUB HERE) IMAGINE HOW GOOD THEY'LL BE SURROUNDED BY BETTER PLAYERS AT LIVERPOOL!!!!111!!"

Then they turn out to be shite, can't be shifted, and a great mystery envelopes the land.
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So true.
Caroll, Lallana, Benteke, Mane, Wijnaldum - and they always come with the same reasoning and logic. They refuse to learn.
 
Wjinaldum is a signing that makes literally no sense for Liverpool. They've got Firmino and Coutinho who play the same role better than he does so why bother getting him? If they put him in centre mid itl be a disaster, Coutinho is decent there it seems but it's also a bit of a waste. They should be looking to bring in a striker that is actually good and not injury prone rather than stock piling number tens.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Alzheimer's is a very serious disease, not sure why you would use it as an insult on the Internet.
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Rafateria has a history of mildly insulting people who do not agree with his opinions or stat analysis. He also has history of being proven wrong more often than right. :D

He is a good poster otherwise, he is always passionate & optimistic about every new Liverpool signing until it goes tits-up (which to be fair happens a lot). You should not take his aggressive stance to heart, I assure you he means no harm. :)
 
Wijnaldum may have gotten away with playing CM in the Eredivisie, but he will be badly exposed in the PL; hence why Newcastle didn't play him there.

For me, he plays his best football wide left and not through the centre, even as a number 10. Not sure where exactly he fits in.
 
Personally I think Wijnaldum is a solid transfer, he was the key man at PSV behind Depay but unlike Depay he has seemed to settle much better in the EPL. Been impressed whenever I saw him but he just signed for the worst team in the EPL newcastle, nothing goes right at that club, they hire shite managers with no plan and it must be very difficult to settle at such a mess of a club, look at the impact LVG and Moyes had on our players, it is exactly the same. But Wijnaldum seems to be quality player to me and he did more than just ok in his first season.

-He is fast and atheletic and seems to fit the sort of playing style Klopp wants to play
-First season at a total mess of a club scored 11 goals and 5 assists for NU, really not bad for a MF, how many United players can claim such numbers last season ?
-His numbers at PSV have also been solid, scoring for fun there as a midfielder

Mané is also solid business for them, exactly the sort of player Klopp loves and even United was interested last summer, he also has good numbers and is EPL proven, solid purchase as far as I'am concerned

Matip is also a very good addition for them at the back

Currently I think they will play like this:

--------------------------Karius----------------------------
Clyne----------Matip---------------Sakho-----------Moreno
----------------Can---------------Milner--------------------
Mané----------------Firmino----------------Wijnaldum
----------------------Sturridge--------------------------

---------------------Mignolet----------------------------
Wisdom-------Lovren--------Ragnar----------Joe Gomez
----------------Grujic----------Henderson--------------
Lallana--------------Coutinho----------------Ings
------------------------Origi---------------------

If they could a better LB than Moreno and a decent CM option because Henderson is too unreliable, they will have a decent squad

Should go for Rodriguez and Matuidi/Sissoko

But they still lack a solid goal scorer, Origi is too young, Sturridge may have what it takes in quality but he is too often injurred, If they had someone like Higuain or Cavani and Klopp could gell it all together, they would be right up there
 
Coutinho only in the second team? He's as close to first player on the team sheet as we have.

Wisdom is probably not going to stay by the way. Fair post on the whole though.
 
Bwuk said:
Wijnaldum ahead of Firmino?
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I think it's likely Firmino will be played more along the front three than in behind but he is adaptable and actually has a good record as CF too (6 goals and 5 assists I believe, or vice versa, in 11 games).
 
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thegregster said:
He has spent more than Arsenal,Chelsea,City,Spurs,Leicester City,Southampton and West Ham so far.

He has outspent 7 out the 8 teams that finished above him as things stand.
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Do we give out the PL title after 19 games as well ? A long to go in the window and you know as well as everyone on here that our Net spend will be far less than most, if not all, of those teams.
 
baanke laal said:
Rafateria has a history of mildly insulting people who do not agree with his opinions or stat analysis. He also has history of being proven wrong more often than right. :D

He is a good poster otherwise, he is always passionate & optimistic about every new Liverpool signing until it goes tits-up (which to be fair happens a lot). You should not take his aggressive stance to heart, I assure you he means no harm. :)
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Ha ha ! Well my wife will be surprised to learn I have at least some redeeming qualities ! Isn't passion what football is all about ? At least for those on forums, which is why WUMing and debates break out, and I usually only give back in kind what I receive, you need a thick skin to be here in the first place ;) I forgive myself for mis-reading the FOR as IN, since it was nearly 02.00 here ! :D
 
Seem that they try to sign Max Meyer from Schlacke. I think they got no chance.
 
The red panther said:
-He is fast and atheletic and seems to fit the sort of playing style Klopp wants to play
-First season at a total mess of a club scored 11 goals and 5 assists for NU, really not bad for a MF, how many United players can claim such numbers last season ?
-His numbers at PSV have also been solid, scoring for fun there as a midfielder
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For NUFC, the majority of his goals have come against Norwich and... us.

I'm just a bit worried, many Newcastle United fans have said he goes missing in away games. I just hope it's more because of the dross in NUFC as a whole rather than him.

The red panther said:
If they could a better LB than Moreno and a decent CM option because Henderson is too unreliable, they will have a decent squad

Should go for Rodriguez and Matuidi/Sissoko

But they still lack a solid goal scorer, Origi is too young, Sturridge may have what it takes in quality but he is too often injurred, If they had someone like Higuain or Cavani and Klopp could gell it all together, they would be right up there
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I really want to see another LB too! I'd like to engage in some transfer muppetry and see someone like Jonas Hector, but I'm pretty sure he's not coming. :P

Sturridge has held up so far, so I'm hoping it stays that way. Ings is back as well, and before he got injured he was looking good, so I'm also hoping he can keep up that form despite the terrible ACL injury.
 
Dumbstar said:
Yeah, it has been depressing no doubt. First we had Roy Hodgson who came with zero plan and then bought zero-talent players that would carry out his zero plan. Then Kenny came in and we thought we were all saved with his third man running tactics (oldie but goldie). So he decides to buy Downing and Carroll which basically killed his own tactics and our hopes. Legend, but in this occasion twat.

Finally Rodgers, promising to be younger and more flexible, saw the benefits of Suarez and Studge in the same team so altered his formations and good times were ahead. Suarez leaves so we all expect a similar replacement but he goes balls deep for f*cking Benteke instead of Dybala, etc. Shithead fraud. Had me completely fooled.

Klopp has come in with his high intensity pressing game and sees the likes of Coutinho not able to conform. Nor offer the pace his tactics require. Nor meaningful goals. So he buys players that can do all the above albeit at lower clubs. I'm not that excited by Mane or Wijanuldum but for God's sake please have a plan and follow it properly. Is that asking for so much? So far he is and I'll take as manna right now.
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Good intelligent post. You're right, I have a feeling you have the first manager for sometime who does have a plan and is building specifically to carry it out. He's far more intelligent that Hodgson, Kenny and Rodgers put together!
 
Rafateria said:
Do we give out the PL title after 19 games as well ? A long to go in the window and you know as well as everyone on here that our Net spend will be far less than most, if not all, of those teams.
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He was correcting an erroneous statement made. No need to get so butthurt.

Also, no one gives a feck about net spend except weird Liverpool fans. Flogging your rubbish out to midtable teams does not mean you haven't spent a feckload of money yourselves.
 
If their defense and defensive midfield hold up Liverpool can challenge for the title with their sole focus being on the league. If it does not, they´ll finish 5th or 6th. Karius is a huge upgrade over Mignolet, but the central defense, leftback and defensive midfield are the huge question marks. It´s also unclear how Klopp plans to set up there. Milner was brilliant in an more advanced role on the right side. Does he move back? Will he dare to try Can and Grujic? What about Henderson? Does he think Wijnaldum can play deeper, maybe even Lallana? Conventionally placed they have a ridiculously deep front formation with

-----------------Sturridge (Origi) --------------------
Coutinho (Wijnaldum) - Firmino (Lallana) - Mane (Milner)

...but behind that it gets really young, a whole lot of stupid and new to the EPL. If they can limit their problems to "Moreno doing dumb shit", they´ll have a very good season.
 
togg said:
Good intelligent post. You're right, I have a feeling you have the first manager for sometime who does have a plan and is building specifically to carry it out. He's far more intelligent that Hodgson, Kenny and Rodgers put together!
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Kenny (2011 version), Hodgson and Rodgers were not at the level required to manage a top football club. And that's correlated with our performance over the last few years.
 
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