[TMDaines]

Seems more are starting to see it now.

A new manager will prioritise power, pace, height and strength at CB. The type of combo we were up against today and most of the rest of the top 6 already have.

The positives of what he brings on the ball are outweighed by his flaws defensively.

Yep, even Pep wants absolute units down the spine of his team.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

He plays after 1 year full of injuries, hard to expect much from him in these circumstances.

 

[Cassidy]

Think he was poor today

 

[2mufc0]

Has plenty of credit in the bank to overlook this performance imo.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Thought he was clearly one of our better players aside from afew poor passes into midfield. Him and de Ligt largely had no issues with Jota. What can you do as a defence though when your midfield keeps losing the ball in a 6 on 4 position.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Slowly working his way to the deadwood pile.

Feck off with this wumming.

 

[Cassidy]

Feck off with this wumming.

He was shite today

 

[DWelbz19]

Feck off with this wumming.

It’s a slow trot. His weaknesses are becoming increasingly visible and his strengths aren’t looking near as vital. He’s honestly one of my favourite players at the club but he hasn’t looked anywhere near the level he did pre-injury in a relatively lengthy time.

 

[Poborsky's hair]

He plays after 1 year full of injuries, hard to expect much from him in these circumstances.

Cant wait to see excuses the whole year here. Hes a proffessional athlete, been with the national team too. Hes got NO exscuse to play sloppy passes like that into midfield. Especially after the bullshit in the media where he claims to be the world champion and wanting the club to get back to the top.

On another note, if we are set up like that to lose by the fraud bold guy, we can try to fit in as many press resistant players as we want but inviting pressure like that without a plan will be always punished. Lets hope Ugarte will help to bring the game a little bit more forward. Getting rid of Casemiro will be key too. Lisandro should never be a playmaker despite his obvious qualities.

 

[Stadjer]

Has plenty of credit in the bank to overlook this performance imo.

Agree but he also used some of his credit against Fulham and Brighton. It is ok for now but he does need to start improving soon.

 

[Roboc7]

Seems more are starting to see it now.

A new manager will prioritise power, pace, height and strength at CB. The type of combo we were up against today and most of the rest of the top 6 already have.

The positives of what he brings on the ball are outweighed by his flaws defensively.

We lack those qualities at CB and in midfield, we can’t cope with pace and physicality, I like Martinez but I’m not sold on him as a guaranteed starter and I wouldn’t be shocked if he was someone we are willing to sell next summer.

 

[Dominos]

- Has to mark Diaz tighter on the 2nd goal
- His sloppy passing is shocking too considering he's meant to be our most reliable player on the ball, and it's not the first time this season. We easily could have conceded from his turnovers today and he'd be getting the blame alongside Casemiro but because Liverpool fluffed the chances Martinez gave them when he lost the ball it will be forgotten about.
- There was a point in the first half he charged out into midfield and got nowhere near the ball like he did against Brighton
- The yellow card is just ridiculous, puts himself under pressure for the rest of the game picking up a needless booking so he can feel like a hardman for crunching someone.

edit: Brighton, not Villa.

 

[Rojofiam]

Several careless passes losing the ball and after Casemiro made the mistake to lose the ball on Liverpool's 2nd goal he wasnt tight enough on Diaz allowing him to shoot and score

Doesnt deserve to play over Maguire and De Ligt at the moment.

Maguire and de Ligt aren't a good pairing, and neither of them have Martínez's in-possession qualities either, which are crucial. Defensively, Martínez might be our 4th best CB, but he's rightly going to play every week, although I personally would prefer it to be at left-back, especially when Yoro returns.

 

[Dominos]

Gonna say it… Carragher was right. You can’t be his size and play CB in this league. Needs a different role.

Don't see that. I was one of the people who thought he'd be too short to make it but I'm happy to admit I was wrong. How many goals do we concede because he's lost aerial duels? Or even lost a physical duel generally? Very very rarely.

His biggest physical problem is his lack of pace. Though again I don't think that was his problem today.

Today he gave the ball away in dangerous areas and his passing has been dodgy this season. And didn't mark tightly enough for the 2nd goal.

He has a bad habit of charging into midfield to try win the ball and failing to, and an annoying habit of smashing into the opposition to get himself booked needlessly.

 

[Ekeke]

Maguire and de Ligt aren't a good pairing, and neither of them have Martínez's in-possession qualities either, which are crucial. Defensively, Martínez might be our 4th best CB, but he's rightly going to play every week, although I personally would prefer it to be at left-back, especially when Yoro returns.

He just had a game with worse passing than either of them. Thats why he shouldnt be starting for the moment

 

[AndySmith1990]

Funny how him being injured last season was used as an excuse as to why we were so bad

 

[Lash]

Both Maguire and De Ligt were better than him today. He's got a lot of credit in the bank, but he's slowly chipping away at it.

 

[Lu Tze]

I really, really wish he was truly a top 5 CB, but let's be honest - he simply isn't. It is theoretically possible for a short person to play CB at a top level. But they would need extraordinary speed, strength and jumping ability.

Martinez has none of these qualities. We can't hide his deficiencies. Especially when he's booting it to the opposition 5x per game in dangerous locations with no cover.

 

[Revan]

Seems it has taken three games of new season for people to start accepting that he’s not in fact one of the best five defenders in the world, or one of the best defenders in United’s history. He’s a decent defender, great on the ball but ultimately not that amazing which some have said for a while (though due to his immense reputation it was not really allowed to question his ability here).

But yeah Pep said he’s the best so he must be.

Meh, I was right again when I called him a Heinze-level of player a couple of seasons back, when Caf was claiming he is the best in the league/world, and it does not matter than he is just 5’8’’ cause Baresi was that too.

To be fair, I might have exaggerated a bit. Peak Heinze was quite a bit better.

 

[Sarni]

Meh, I was right again when I called him a Heinze-level of player a couple of seasons back, when Caf was claiming he is the best in the league/world, and it does not matter than he is just 5’8’’ cause Baresi was that too.

To be fair, I might have exaggerated a bit. Peak Heinze was quite a bit better.

I was told I passionately hate him when I said he’s not world class.

 

[Desert Eagle]

- Has to mark Diaz tighter on the 2nd goal
- His sloppy passing is shocking too considering he's meant to be our most reliable player on the ball, and it's not the first time this season. We easily could have conceded from his turnovers today and he'd be getting the blame alongside Casemiro but because Liverpool fluffed the chances Martinez gave them when he lost the ball it will be forgotten about.
- There was a point in the first half he charged out into midfield and got nowhere near the ball like he did against Villa
- The yellow card is just ridiculous, puts himself under pressure for the rest of the game picking up a needless booking so he can feel like a hardman for crunching someone needlessly.

Well summarized

 

[Ballache]

He's been average for while now but I'm also convinced that we can have prime Nesta and Maldini at CB and we'd still look shit defensively because the midfield is way too open.

 

[Zaboot]

Funny how him being injured last season was used as an excuse as to why we were so bad

It's looking like Mount will be that player this season.

 

[Skills]

Probably the most overrated player we've ever had tbh.

Even in his supposedly all time great PL season, he was on the pitch for a game in which we let 7 and 6 goals in against Liverpool and City, was hooked after letting 4 goals in against Brentford

In that PL season we conceded 35 goals in the 2117 minutes he was on the pitch (1.49 goals per 90). But conceded 8 goals in 1303 minutes he was off it (0.55 goals per 90).

 

[Orion.]

The little fella is overrated. Ten Hag’s signings have been horrific.

 

[2 man midfield]

I know the pendulum is swinging back the other way in here, but I think his injury has made him lose a step. Hopefully he can get it back, because (let’s not rewrite history here) he was genuinely brilliant in his first season.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

He was shite today

He really wasn’t. What can your CBs do when your midfield give the ball away in dangerous positions at every chance.

 

[Cassidy]

He really wasn’t. What can your CBs do when your midfield give the ball away in dangerous positions at every chance.

He also did the same

 

[Crimson King]

It's looking like Mount will be that player this season.

Well it will be if he's pinned our whole pressing game on Mount being in the team...

 

[Red in STL]

He really wasn’t. What can your CBs do when your midfield give the ball away in dangerous positions at every chance.

Martinez started that trend today, he was just very lucky his piss poor passing didn't lead to a goal

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

It’s a slow trot. His weaknesses are becoming increasingly visible and his strengths aren’t looking near as vital. He’s honestly one of my favourite players at the club but he hasn’t looked anywhere near the level he did pre-injury in a relatively lengthy time.

Nah this is kneejerk cafe at its finest after a couple of defeats against decent teams. He did play some sloppy passes I’ll say that but overall him and De Ligt defended well and were largely comfortable agaisnt Jota. The midfield yet again let the defence down. But rationality in this place…forget it.

As for your second sentence. I disagree. He was injured all last season, when he did play he took a couple games back up to speed but for example in the West Ham game was easily at his brilliant best, until he got injured again. Great in the FA cup final too. But on Redcafe you’re literally only considered decent when the team wins. Add him to the pile of players that would be considered world class elsewhere and are wasting their career at this club. It’s a graveyard for talent and our fans don’t help in that either.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Martinez started that trend today, he was just very lucky his piss poor passing didn't lead to a goal

I agree he had a couple of sloppy passes but ultimately they didn’t get punished and that then doesn’t forgive the midfielders (who should be the best in the team under pressure), from giving away almost indefensible situations. You can have Van Dyke, Maldini, Baresi whoever you bloody want but if you give the ball away 5 on 3 against a top team you will be punished. It’s that simple.

 

[Bobski]

Don't see that. I was one of the people who thought he'd be too short to make it but I'm happy to admit I was wrong. How many goals do we concede because he's lost aerial duels? Or even lost a physical duel generally? Very very rarely.

His biggest physical problem is his lack of pace. Though again I don't think that was his problem today.

Today he gave the ball away in dangerous areas and his passing has been dodgy this season. And didn't mark tightly enough for the 2nd goal.

He has a bad habit of charging into midfield to try win the ball and failing to, and an annoying habit of smashing into the opposition to get himself booked needlessly.

Not many, but that is in large part because he doesn't contest aerial balls. Look on FBREF, he is in bottom 1% of CB's for aerials contested per 90 over the last year and even in 22/23 it was bottom 7%. Hard to lose aerials if you don't contest them.

Because of that he has to be extra sharp on the ground but he has already been dribbled past 5 times in the league this season, Van Dijk has gone full seasons with no-one beating him 1 v 1.

 

[Blood Mage]

Losing patience with him. His lack of pace and physicality are being exposed more now, probably because he's lost confidence. Does he deserve to start ahead of Maguire?

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

He also did the same

And we didn’t get punished so he was fortunate in those instances. Doesn’t change the fact the goals sd conceded came from suicidal midfield play that any defence would be unable to contain.

 

[Dominos]

Not many, but that is in large part because he doesn't contest aerial balls. Look on FBREF, he is in bottom 1% of CB's for aerials contested per 90 over the last year and even in 22/23 it was bottom 7%. Hard to lose aerials if you don't contest them.

Then we could ask the question, are we conceding goals because Martinez hasn't challenged for an aerial when he should have? Again, I'm not seeing it.

He's definitely overrated on this forum. But his height is the last of our worries.

 

[Leftback99]

Don't see that. I was one of the people who thought he'd be too short to make it but I'm happy to admit I was wrong. How many goals do we concede because he's lost aerial duels? Or even lost a physical duel generally? Very very rarely.

His biggest physical problem is his lack of pace. Though again I don't think that was his problem today.

Today he gave the ball away in dangerous areas and his passing has been dodgy this season. And didn't mark tightly enough for the 2nd goal.

He has a bad habit of charging into midfield to try win the ball and failing to, and an annoying habit of smashing into the opposition to get himself booked needlessly.

The aerial thing isn't a huge issue in open play but, we have hardly any set piece threat and are weak at defending them.

Carrying a short CB handicaps us for this crucial part of the game. This is going to be even worse for us with Maguire and Casemiro out of the side and McTominay gone.

 

[Kostov]

Maguire and de Ligt aren't a good pairing, and neither of them have Martínez's in-possession qualities either, which are crucial. Defensively, Martínez might be our 4th best CB, but he's rightly going to play every week, although I personally would prefer it to be at left-back, especially when Yoro returns.

Crucial to what? A negative goal difference after a whole season?

 

[Chip]

Has plenty of credit in the bank to overlook this performance imo.

We said that quite a while ago as well, didn’t we? Given how much he has been out injured, there must be a limit to the amount of credit he has earned.

 

[Blood Mage]

Has plenty of credit in the bank to overlook this performance imo.

Three dire performances in a row, he needs to find form soon.