yes, but
Life after ETH — the next United manager
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yes, but
Id rather keep ETH than get Ole back. Get Xavi on if we are out of options. Don't repeat your fecking mistakes.
What's wrong with Ole as interim? Up until he signed Ronaldo he had us consistently finishing top4. If he can achieve that this season, than we would be in a much better position come summer.
I think that had alot to do with Leverkuson having such a big lead and Bayen putting all their eggs in the CL. So players down tooling in a lot the league games and Tuchel rotating for those games.
His football was shit and we were underdog to every fecking team. I know you can't stand Ten Hag at the moment, but people forget very quick how shit we were under Ole. I do not want to waste the whole season on him. There are a very good coach in Xavi who is available and could possibly be a permanent manager. Do not waste 80% of the season on fecking vibes.
How is objective achievement rating measured?
McKenna's taken a team from League 1 to PL. But has a far worse achievement rating than Ten Hag who's spent 600m and lowered our position in the table.
How is any of it measured? Most of Amorim's nice green boxes come from the underappreciated facet of tactical genius called 'managing in the Portuguese league'.
It's clearly a silly exercise, but if you give exact numbers and call things "objective" and "success adjusted" people will buy it, apparently.
I would've taken Zidane years ago but he's said he'll never coach in England as he never bothered to learn English and is likely still waiting to take over Deschamps when he's done at the helm of Les Bleus.
Inzaghi would've been my top pick if we were huring after or before the season but he won't ditch Inter midseason.
Tuchel and Nagelsmann have been my top picks but I could get behind Amorim if we felt bold and risk taking suddenly.
He has a similar profile to ETH bit he's been doing it at a club with much less structural advantages as Ajax had in the Eredivisie under him. He led Sporting to their first title in a generation, 20 years, and has turned them into the best side in Portugal during his tenure.
Ugarte also looked like a world beater under him.
Can ruud really do any worse as interim for rest of season or until January, he at least has a better managerial pedigree than what ole had when he first took charge, ruud also understands the standards at this club unlike ten hag.
It's a bit pointless having the 3 managers we absolutely aren't getting in the list when they're getting the majority of the votes.
How is any of it measured? Most of Amorim's nice green boxes come from the underappreciated facet of tactical genius called 'managing in the Portuguese league'.
It's clearly a silly exercise, but if you give exact numbers and call things "objective" and "success adjusted" people will buy it, apparently.
It appears that, similar to ETH, he is gaining popularity among the Caf as he fulfils certain criteria (young, up and coming, broke the Porto/Benfica duopoly) on which United fans seem to place a significant emphasis.
I still remember a piece of advice from my late father: "Whenever you feel like patting yourself on the back for a good deal, ask yourself why's it no one else hasn't picked up on it already. It will save you a lot of trouble and money". Is it "a good bargain is a pick-purse", how the English say it?
The guy could manage in the PL and do great. But the pertinent question should be why is he still at SCP, going into his 5th full season there, despite all the hype around his name.
That's very debatable.
Ruud was a manager for one season (and didn't even want to take it then as he didn't think he was ready). Finished second and won a cup, but it appears the fans weren't happy with the performances and he resigned before the last game of the season.
Ole had managed for about 7 seasons, which included winning Molde their first ever league title (and then won it again the following season). He didn't do well at Cardiff but they were a poor team that was almost certainly getting relegated no matter who the manager was.
Ruud was in charge of a larger club, but overall I'd say Ole had the better managerial pedigree.
Ruud could a be a good option as an interim but I suspect INEOS want to go that route, they will most likely go for a permanent option.
The main difference between him and EtH is that unlike EtH, he is actually a young manager. While Amorim is around Nagelsmann and McKenna age, EtH is older than Pep.
Otherwise, I agree with you. He is an up and coming manager, and should be considered by the big clubs. Like all unproven managers, could go good, could go bad. For what is worth, I thought that is hiring EtH was the correct decision back then (was my second choice behind Conte), but it didn’t work. I think even more important than hiring the right manager, is sacking fast the wrong managers. Going over 3 managers within 2 seasons until we find the right one, is still far better than burning 2-3 seasons persisting with the wrong manager. There is a good chance that the next manager will again be unsuccessful, so as long as we are proactive at having choices at any stage of the season, decouple the manager from the squad building, and be fast at sacking when things aren’t going well, we will be ok. Similar to other big clubs who work within this principle.
So I think we should consider Amorim, but there should also be some expectation that he, like any other manager, has a high likelihood of failing.
Apparently Inzaghi is learning English so he can reject us.
We should also be prepared, even if things go reasonably well at the start, for the eventuality of appointing a replacement two or three years down the line. Managerial appointments, even the more successful ones, tend to have short life spans. In some ways, it's the belief in our uniqueness as a club that's hurting us. The belief that we can "make" a long-term manager. Offering Moyes a six-year contract, signing LvG with Giggs waiting to take up the mantle, offering Mourinho a new deal even if we knew his history, insisting with both Solskjaer and ETH... who does that? This is the big hope with the INEOS management, that they, as outsiders, would help the club snap out of it.
I posted my previous comment with a particular incident in mind. Like you, i was very positive about ETH's appointment when it happened. Did well within the Ajax system (not the most competitive league, but Ajax has standards and their fans were happy with him) and several aspects of his playing style were closer to the modern game than we had ever been under Mourinho or Solskjaer. A friend of mine (someone whose opinions on the game i appreciate) didn't share my enthusiasm. When i asked why, he said: "I don't follow the Eredivisie, so i can't be 100% certain. Having said that, if you are a great manager, that second half against Spurs in the CL semi-final simply doesn't happen. For me, it's unforgivable, and it's a massive red flag". That was in 2019, and no one picked up ETH until United came knocking at his door in 2022. Now, it's easy to see the lack of control, the gung-ho approach when we have to push for a goal, the big gaps in the thirds when we transition in defence etc. It's also too late.
Sadly - and you can see it in the comments - we have arrived, once again, to the point where we expect the next Messiah to step inside OT.
You just know the graph is a steaming pile of BS when Tuchel's "tactical command rating" and "strategic intelligence rating" is lower than Southgates or Van Nistelrooys ..
Why isn't Ole on the list of choices? And Eddie Howe is
Cause Ole was shown to be completely out of his depth while here.
It's a random grid of shite.
Get him in !!
Ole's football was comfortably the best one we've played post-Ferguson. If it was shit, then what we played under Mourinho, ten Hag, van Gaal, and Moyes was ultra shit then.
But the "fecking vibes" comment gives a lot away anyway
We were utterly mediocre for the most part under Ole, and funnily the feeling of being outplayed by almost every opponent was very much the same as it is now under ETH. Also the same was the occasional smash and grab win against City to save the job for another 6 months.
Anyone who reacts to the troubles we have under ETH by wanting to hire Ole back should be banned.
I would kill to be where Ole got is now
Think we'll be pinning our hopes on the Italian reports that we spoke to Inzaghi and he said no, coupled with the reports it'll be his last season at Inter. Ten Hag isn't going anywhere this season, so hopefully that's the plan for the summer. Knowing us, even if it was, we'd probably ditch it if Ten Hag beat City or something again.
No, we weren't.
There's nothing to suggest that other than the media and casual fans pushing the PE teacher narrative. Both the eye test and underlying stats will tell you otherwise. In fact, we were light years ahead compared to ETH's United, despite having a weaker midfield, defense, and goalkeeper.
If you call our victories vs City "smash and grab", like the one in March 2021 for example, then I won't waste my time continuing this discussion. But using your thought process, 95% of every game City have lost under Pep was a smash and grab by their opponent, because they couldn't dominate all phases of play vs one of the greatest club sides of all time?
The good periods were. But he had a lot of periods of complete shit as well.
Amorim’s certainly an interesting option and may get the best out of Bruno and Ugarte.
I won't deny how awful it got around mid-September 2021, but there are a lot of reasons for that. Ole was obviously not faultless in this, but he was fecked over by the Glazers in several transfer windows and by the time it all started going to shit, we had an overrated and unbalanced team, with sky high expectations after the 2021 window.
We were also bad in 19/20 before Bruno's arrival. But just take a look at that squad and the minutes played for some of those players.
Pogba missed most of the season. Bruno only joined in January.
Players like DDG, AWB, Lindelöf, Williams, Pereira, McFred, Lingard were either mainstays in the team or had to play way more minutes than they should've. 66 points was probably not an underperformances that season because the squad was pretty weak.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/manchester-united/leistungsdaten/verein/985/plus/0?reldata=&2019
This is what the Ole derangement syndrome looks like.
As an interim he got us 12 wins on the trot and gave us one of the most memorable European nights since SAF retired. Then he lead us to 3rd and 2nd place finishes while missing out on the Europa League due to penalties. The wheels came off when Ronaldo arrived and he was rightfully sacked, however it still doesn't negate the fact that we played some amazing football during his tenure. Pretty sure Ole will get us finishing in the Top4 or thereabouts.
Xavi on the other hand is a possession based coach. The problem is that our team doesn't have the necessary personnel to play the way he wants to. Even if he walked in tomorrow, I somehow doubt that he would guarantee us Top4. Pretty sure most people on here would bring up the excuses that he needs time to instill his methods, new league, etc etc
Our team is suited more towards someone like Ole, Carrick, Tuchel, Allegri, Conte and Flick. People like Xavi, Naglesman, Amorim would fail here or they would need another 600 million to buy the necessary players to fit their play styles.
We lost 0-5 at Old Trafford against fecking Scousers a month before Ole got sacked.
It was better than when we are now, but still horrible.
He is talking about the time before Ronaldo was signed. Up until that point we looked like a team comfortably in top4.
We were a bit meh, and got top 4 both seasons but in the first one it was essentially in the last week with a historically low top 4 point tally.
Nevertheless, by the end of his spell, he was found out to be a shit manager. He didn’t even coach players for feck sake, so why we are even having the idea of returning him here. There are hundreds of better managers than him.
As per The Athletic, Liverpool considered him this summer but ultimately decided against him due to his preference for a back three and his tactical approach more generally:
To what extent those same questions would apply to our squad and our intended game model is open to discussion, I suppose.
No idea. The best candidates like Inzaghi and Alonso are unrealistic. And you can make a solid case for why the other candidates aren’t the right fit
I sure hope our directors have access to better stats than these, or we are in big trouble.
I'm leaning towards Marco Silva tbh.
Plays good football, works with limited resources, and seems to have a charisma about him.
Plays good football, works with limited resources, and seems to have a charisma about him.
He failed at Everton lest we forget.