Why are you taking about replacements for Ashworth?
Life after ETH — the next United manager
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Also has experience from dealing with massive egos and high media pressure situations. Should be the stand out candidate for now. Should be hired immediately.
Liverpool were crap for a very long time too dont forget.
But you are right - it is grim. The whole world of football is grim. Feck it.
Because I think (and have consistently said so in this forum) that the whole Ashworth saga was a mistake and a reason why I don't trust in INEOS to have a positive impact. I think I even named Krösche as an alternative during that time, but am not sure when I did that for the first time. Anyway, what's done is done and Ashworth surely won't be replaced in the near future.
Urgh shut up Melissa and stop depressing fanbase with news about Erik still being here. Worrying he gets no mention in Wheeler tweet yet De Zerbi does who has a job at Marseille
United would be picking from a similar field that includes Thomas Frank, Roberto De Zerbi, Graham Potter, Kieran McKenna and Marco Silva.
No, no, no, no and no.
ten Hag or any of that list is an invitation to finish sixth and win a domestic cup once every now and again. At best.
May as well keep EtH on. Be cheaper, if nothing else.
Truly depressing state of affairs.
No, no, no, no and no.
ten Hag or any of that list is an invitation to finish sixth and win a domestic cup once every now and again. At best.
May as well keep EtH on. Be cheaper, if nothing else.
Truly depressing state of affairs.
I want a serial winner as coach. Even he clashes with the board, I think it is a good thing. We need a manager who can work with what he is given and achieve moderate success. Tuchel won the champion league, not league or FA cup. Erik should stop boasting about his cup win. As long as we start winning, I am happy with whatever tactics put in place. What transition? What possession football? We are beaten left right and centre by teams. Erik can F off for all I care, I agree with those who call him a PE teacher. When does a PE teacher motivate anyone?
been there for years mate.
When good players are signed and the Bruno and Rashford days are over we might progress
Ashworth is a good DoF, one of the better ones. But frankly he needs more than a couple of weeks to start having an influence everywhere. Judge him after 2 years, not 2 months
its not as simple as that. I suspect they know as well as we do that the squad isn't top 4 quality. So it was always going to be an outside chance of reaching it, whoever the manager was. While the squad might get a boost from a new manager, it could also create a new problem next summer. What if, say, Alonso were available next summer, but we'd just appointed a new manager and bet the house on reaching top 4, and therefore missed out on the better manager?
I do not believe for a second they're watching the team and thinking ETH is doing a wonderful job. Its only a matter of time before he's replaced. But they're right to resist doing it in a way to creates more problems for themselves in the future.
The squad is top 4 quality. There's no way I'm accepting that we can't compete with the likes of Chelsea, Spurs, Newcastle and Villa with the squad we have
Well the higher ups at the club do care about the style of play and think having a game model is the best way to achieve success in the long term. Whether that proves to be correct or not is yet to be seen.
I don't disagree on this opinion and don't want to derail the thread much further, but just want to add this explanation: Yes, I also think he can be a good DoF (not sure because I think he lacks some experience in dealing with the kind of drama we see right now around EtH), but my bigger issue is, that it's just two months I can judge him on. He (or an alternative) should have been in office much earlier, there should be much more time we can judge United's DoF on. However that's obviously not Ashworth's fault personally, that's on INEOS.
Nonetheless somewhere in this forum we already discussed Ashworth's (lack of) experience in regard to sacking and hiring managers, which is something which could create trouble when entering the life after EtH to come back on topic here a bit. Nothing that I have seen since INEOS arrived convinces me that we will see the kind of smooth and sensible transition to the next manager that I want to see.
Alonso will replace Ancelotti at Real
Why does this big meeting that the club are supposed to be having today have to be in London? Are the Glazers flying over as well? If so couldn’t they fly into Manchester? I thought OT had a board room where such matters could be discussed. Modern football, madness, sheer bloody madness.
Let’s hope we get definitive answer from this meeting and we are minus one employee by this evening.
Let’s hope we get definitive answer from this meeting and we are minus one employee by this evening.
Budget projections are based on top 4 as a target, with top 6 being salvageable with getting far into Europa. Anything else is below their expectations for this season.
True, however they should care about results right now not letting this drift on another month just because it doesn't fit their timeline on things
Was it he who signed off on our summer signings? If so I was hoping for better.
Agreed, the club has been allowed to drift long before their arrival. None of us really know if they have the plan and ability to turn it around - we will see in time. But just because they aren't listening to a rabid online fanbase does not necessarily make them incorrect.
They will get rid of the manager at some stage, but they probably want their first appointment in the role to be right - otherwise their positions will become vulnerable quickly too. Again, whether that is right or wrong remains to be seen.
The whole 'give him time' schtick falters whenever a dodgy replacement is implemented, transfers fail and results worsen.
Yes, there does appear to be unwarranted faith in the likes of Ashworth, but all he is doing, and will do, is implement similar policies to what he did at other clubs whose remit is nowhere near ours.
The biggest problem under the previous regime was cronyism. As we got progressively worse, the likes of Judge, Woodward, Arnold et al went rewarded. Glazers dividends. An absolute pisstake.
Such cannot and must not be allowed now. If Ashworth does not start providing results, and soon, he needs to be removed as much as any misfiring manager.
You have to consider the flow of events
- Late February - INEOS officially buy a stake within Manchester United. Its fair to say that Brailsford joined around March
- 19th April - Wilcox joins Manchester United as technical director.
- 30th April - Blanc becomes interim CEO.
- 25th May - Manchester United won the FA cup final.
- 1st July - Ashworth started working for Man utd
- 13 July - Berrada starts working for Manchester United
By mid July all hands were on deck to bring in the transfer market (ins and outs), setting the ball rolling on new staff (assistant managers etc), the stadium/training ground plans and to generate as much money possible so we could invest on the squad. Most of the fans were pro ETH at that point which is crazy considering he had a handful of good games and the pressure to keep him was on a ridiculous level. With Plan A gone (Tuchel) can you blame Berrada/Ashworth for kicking the can for next season? After all we already brought in RVN and Hake who were good enough to cover the interim role if needed. Cause that's exactly what they did.
The fact that he’s only fired 2 in his DoF work speaks to me more about the quality of the person he hired, not that he’s afraid of handling that work as it comes hand in hand with the job. It would worry me more if he had sacked a string of people meaning, an indication that his picks weren’t right for the project
As per usual, a lengthy post talking absolute nonsense
I think it's important to note that there's a difference between players playing in a system that doesn't suit them, and playing in a bad system that wouldn't suit anyone. We do the latter, which is basically setting the players up to fail and makes a lot of them look worse than they really are.
Personally think we should get in a Tuchel, however with a long term plan to bring in either Nagelsmann after World Cup, Inzaghi or Amorim. The only way you consider going back on that is if the manager they appoint now absolutely tears it up.
Every single appointment I quoted happened to late in my opinion. Not their fault, but still a problem which caused massive problems in the summer. I believe everybody of the permanent crew should have entered office in April as latest option to have enough time to prepare for the summer clearout.
I don't blame them for that. I blame INEOS for putting them in a situation that meant there was no time for them to properly implement Plan A (doesn't matter for my argument if Tuchel actually was that or whoever).
That's fair. But most of his jobs weren't that long that he had to pick many new people either. I'm willing to give him the benefit of doubt until proven otherwise in this aspect, but I don't really trust him here.
Touched a nerve, eh?
Let's hope your blind loyalty to brand Ineos goes rewarded. Otherwise, it's just continuity Glazers.
At the end of the day, this is the man INEOS waited patiently for, paid compensation for. They aren’t gonna get rid of the DoF when they are just getting started. So personally I think that talk is redundant at this time
I kind of agree. When you look at how City did it, they sacked Hughes and brought in Mancini then Pallegrini (was it in this order?) and then finally Pep. I remember how they had been preparing for Pep for some time before they actually brought him in (didn’t they bring in Tixi first?).
We need to go the same route of getting a manager who can stabilise the team first while challenging (like a Mancini or Pallegrini) and then pounce on the next big manager when the opportunity is there.
See next post
If the next manager gets us finishing sixth with a good playstyle that is easy to develop further in the future (especially for the younger players), that's absolutely fine for a season or two. If it turns out that's as far as they can take us, they can then be replaced with another manager who can drive us further up the table.
The longer we allow our current malaise to continue, the harder it is for our next manager. The more likely it is that our young players don't end up developing properly (I've said many times that Ole's lack of development of the younger players is my single biggest issue from his time). The more the confidence and belief is destroyed of our players. Simply, the more damage is done.
Absolutely, as I said in my first response here, there is no way that Ashworth would be replaced soon.
Nonetheless I think it's fair to point out that there could have been alternatives and explain why I think so (in the end it was you who asked for more explanation
)That's 5 teams going for 4th place. I see no reason to believe that our squad is so much better than that we should expect to finish ahead of them all. Yes, we could finish top 4 with a fair wind, but its far from certain.
It was just an example of a sought after manager being unavailable because we'd appointed right now to chase top 4.
If top 6 looks to run away from us entirely then I expect them to take action, which is why I think ETH could go at any time. But that could still create problems for us we'd hoped to avoid.
Can’t see them getting rid of ETH just yet - would be too much egg on their face after all they said in the summer after keeping him.
If nothing really improves then it’s more realistic to assume he would go January.
However, I cannot believe that he will have accept pressures to change the team setup as we’ve been so poor in midfield for so long that something has to give.
If nothing really improves then it’s more realistic to assume he would go January.
However, I cannot believe that he will have accept pressures to change the team setup as we’ve been so poor in midfield for so long that something has to give.
So much can change in football in such a short time that planning for the manager after the next one just seems pretty pointless. Which is probably why the exec team are wanting to first form a way of playing as well as overall strategy and then fit their appointments around that. Whether it works or not is another thing. Shows how hard a job managing United is when really we only have two managers in our history that have been unequivocally successful. It doesn't mean that those who have failed to reach those heights are bad managers either.
You are bang on, Ashworth's role should be results based.
There's a few on here, staff included, who think Ineos are 'saviours' and some way untouchable.
Could be nationalism (brexit Jim appealing to the no deal crowd - see next post), could be PR working its way or maybe could be 'Glazer fatigue'.
Anyway, it's dangerous.
I don't think the talk is 'redundant', we should be keeping a close eye on Ineos and not allowing them carte blanche to make us worse with idealistic nonsense.
Good luck to them, hopefully it all works out, but no employee should be given immunity from repeated failure.
If it turns out sixth is their limit, then the 'good playstyle' isn't a 'good play-style' at all.
The next manager would need to change it to succeed.
You're arguing to 'trust the process' over results, which is why EtH should be already clipped in your eyes.
I agree that failure should not go rewarded, just I think the higher-ups need constant assessment and not blind faith in narrative.
It's nothing to do with blind loyalty. It's about realising that certain positions can make large differences in the short-term, while other positions tend to take longer to prove their quality. Manager is the former. DoF is the latter.
As such, it depends on your mindset. Some people always see the glass half empty and will presume incompetence until proven otherwise. Others see it as a glass half full and will presume competence until proven otherwise. At the moment the likes of Berrada, Ashworth, Wilcox and INEOS in general haven't had the time to 'prove' anything.
Tuchel only won us one BL out of all the trophies we competed for, and that was because BVB messed up in their last game. The football under him was abysmal to watch, at times I'd have youtube up on the 2nd monitor so I could have something enjoyable to watch with my beer, and he will fall out with the board and players like he always does at some point.
Not saying he's not better than ETH, he probably is, but just keep that in mind if you really want Tuchel.
Not saying he's not better than ETH, he probably is, but just keep that in mind if you really want Tuchel.
I agree with bolded part, but I still think a collection of quality players can do something even in a not so good system, I remember Barca post Pep, they did not necessarily win a lot, but they were good enough to get somewhere, like a league title or CL semifinal, not their full potential obviously, but the collective were still quality (having players like Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Bosquets, Alba, Suarez meant the team can do something, even with a below average coach), I know the Braca example I mention above is a bit extreme, but the idea itself remains, look at Liverpool, I am not saying Slot is bad or genius, but they do have a collection of quality players (Allison, TAA, VdV, Robertson, McAllister, Diaz, Salah) which means that they can still manage something even if their coach was not good enough.
I agree the forwards collective is the worst in the group, but our defenders make errors all the time, our midfielders are run through easily, the last 10 games can't only be Ten Hag's fault, the quality is actually lacking to begin with and the bolded in your post confirms what I think of this team, which is they aren't good enough to get top 4 as currently constructed.
The second bolded part for me means lack of quality as well, if a player cannot consistently perform to a decent level then said player isn't good enough, and if the whole team is underperforming, the reason again is lack of quality, not bad form, form is temporary and 10 games is not acceptable to be in a bad form.
and I agree with your premise that a system impacts players, I just think that on a fundamental level, quality alone still can get you something, even in a not so good system.
A system that does not suit the team vs a system that do not suit anyone are both equally bad for me, and will negatively impact any player, regardless of quality, but the level of the impact (of a bad system) would be, in my opinion, different based on the level of the player, team with a good number quality players should be able to perform to a certain level, not necessarily win a lot, but they wouldn't be routinely smashed, they will adapt to the tactics to some extent, average to low level players will suffer in a system that does not suit them.
Edit: I really want EtH gone asap, this is not me making excuses for him, good coaches can make use of what they have at their disposal and make it work somehow, a good coach with good players can get very far, even win things.
I'm aware of his style but we need to improve results and get ourselves back up the table. Being down in 14th place is absolutely unacceptable