Life after ETH — the next United manager

[Fallon d'Floor]

No doubt Martinez played well but I don’t think an xG of 1.55 is much to get giddy about, against a team who are really inexperienced at that level. We saw Kompany’s Burnley side try to dominate the ball in similar ways, fair enough he has better players now so I’m sure that will help. Villa also had a goal ruled out for a marginal offside which doesn’t count on their xG. Bayern possibly fortunate to keep 11 men on the pitch in the first half, which was a direct consequence of trying to push high and play Watkins 1v1. It does play right into what Emery wants.

The Bayern players have been playing a modern style for years now so we’ll wait and see how well Kompany can do in the medium term before making claims like he’s been enough of our success to model our next manager on.

Nearly every club across Europe that has gone down the young, up and coming manager road has had good fortunes so far.

Arteta - Hired as a 37 year old rookie with 3.5 years experience as Pep's assistant.

Amorim - Hired as a 35 year old by Sporting on the back of winning a Taça da Liga during a brief spell as Braga's manager.

Alonso - Went an entire domestic season undefeated as Leverkusen manager. He was 40 when hired. Just 3 years of managerial experience as Real Sociedad B manager prior to taking the job.

Motta - Hired as 41 year old by Juventus after 3 good seasons with Spezia and Bologna. Still undefeated so far this season.

Hoeneß - Hired as a 40 year old by Stuttgart on the back of 2 solid seasons at Hoffenheim. He finished as runner-up to Alonso's Leverkusen last season.

Then you also have McKenna (38) at Ipswich, Hürzeler (31) at Brighton, etc.

Who knows how Kompany will do in the long term, but the style of play is certainly the right approach. He's only 38 and has room to grow. 4 years of managerial experience now.

This approach is something that we haven't tried post Fergie.

 

[golden_blunder]

Another example of player insubordination going rewarded.

Furthermore, a dud replacement may precipitate relegation faster than EtH. Especially around players who know they rule the roost (they'll agitate to leave if we go down).

You sack EtH now you vindicate the players. However, and herein lies the rub, who need another overhaul to remove those on the naughty list.

Rinse and repeat.

You leave him in place then you’re effectively saying it’s all good lads. Carry on.
Sacking him sends a clear message to the players too, you’re playing for your futures here

 

[DJ_21]

Tuchel is favourite to get the job if we sack ETH

 

[padzilla]

Sky Sports News is suggesting he won't be getting the boot yet.

 

[Red Star One]

Sky Sports News is suggesting he won't be getting the boot yet.

Obviously fecking shambles

 

[Dan_F]

Nearly every club across Europe that has gone down the young, up and coming manager road has had good fortunes so far.

Arteta - Hired as a 37 year old rookie with 3.5 years experience as Pep's assistant.

Amorim - Hired as a 35 year old by Sporting on the back of winning a Taça da Liga during a brief spell as Braga's manager.

Alonso - Went an entire domestic season undefeated as Leverkusen manager. He was 40 when hired. Just 3 years of managerial experience as Real Sociedad B manager prior to taking the job.

Motta - Hired as 41 year old by Juventus after 3 good seasons with Spezia and Bologna. Still undefeated so far this season.

Hoeneß - Hired as a 40 year old by Stuttgart on the back of 2 solid seasons at Hoffenheim. He finished as runner-up to Alonso's Leverkusen last season.

Then you also have McKenna (38) at Ipswich, Hürzeler (31) at Brighton, etc.

Who knows how Kompany will do in the long term, but the style of play is certainly the right approach. He's only 38 and has room to grow. 4 years of managerial experience now.

This approach is something that we haven't tried post Fergie.

I’m not doubting there’s some great young managers out there and I’m not against it. Clubs like Sporting, Leverkusen, Stuttgart can pretty much take a free swing at them and there’s limited pressure and far less issues to deal with compared to United currently. Also, you’re always going to remember the successes. Off the top of my head, you’ve got Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard, Henry, Neville who all got jobs before 40 and had some a bit of early success but you’d want them no where near United. That list will be far bigger than the successes.

Juve is probably the best comparison on the list in terms of club size, and Motta had three years of experience and evidence of managing in Serie A, which is a good sample size to take a risk. He’s off to an okay start with more draws than wins, but like with most of that list we really don’t know yet. Even one season is such a short amount of time to judge.

Anyway, my concerns are more about hiring a good communicator and leader rather than age as I’ve said in other posts. There’s a lot of problems in our dressing room and I don’t think Ten Hag has the stature in the game or leadership skills. I’d try and avoid that next time.

 

[peridigm]

Tuchel is favourite to get the job if we sack ETH

Makes sense. He's the most qualified unemployed manager that we may be able to lure.

 

[DJ_21]

Makes sense. He's the most qualified unemployed manager that we may be able to lure.

But then the questions come as to why he wasn’t chosen in the summer? There’s obviously an obstacle standing in the way or he’d have already started with us this season

 

[MancunianAngels]

I’m not doubting there’s some great young managers out there and I’m not against it. Clubs like Sporting, Leverkusen, Stuttgart can pretty much take a free swing at them and there’s limited pressure and far less issues to deal with compared to United currently. Also, you’re always going to remember the successes. Off the top of my head, you’ve got Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard, Henry, Neville who all got jobs before 40 and had some a bit of early success but you’d want them no where near United. That list will be far bigger than the successes.

Juve is probably the best comparison on the list in terms of club size, and Motta had three years of experience and evidence of managing in Serie A, which is a good sample size to take a risk. He’s off to an okay start with more draws than wins, but like with most of that list we really don’t know yet. Even one season is such a short amount of time to judge.

Anyway, my concerns are more about hiring a good communicator and leader rather than age as I’ve said in other posts. There’s a lot of problems in our dressing room and I don’t think Ten Hag has the stature in the game or leadership skills. I’d try and avoid that next time.

Good point

In addition, I'd say the next person needs to be someone who can deal with the political side of the club as much as anything else. You're always three games from a crisis and the intense level of focus and spotlight is probably similar only at Barca and Real Madrid.

Madrid’s recent success with Ancelotti saw them re appoint someone who can handle that pressure. He didn't do that well at Bayern so wasn't even the obvious choice at that point.

What's needed is ultimately a strong coaching staff that can lead day to day training with the manager/head coach being that focal point like Ancelotti is at Real Madrid. Tuchel might be that man, at least in the short term.

In the long term, you'd hope those running the club are analysing/examining those young managers to see if anyone can take on the role in the long term.

 

[Woziak]

I genuinely think this is a 2 stage situation, we need a here and now coach that will drag this squad out of the mire and make the team competitive and difficult to beat.

Surely SJR and the Management team have made their mind up already about ETH, he is not a coach who has the personality to manage one of Europe’s biggest Clubs.

Right now we need to pick up wins and sometimes win ugly and stop the team leaking goals, we also need an experienced Elite coach that has EPL experience and can adapt his team formation in each game to get those necessary points, so we must either Appoint Jose, Conte Or Thomas Tuchel, two of them have won the PL and two of them have won the CL, but only one of them has won both but he’s probably the coach who is currently the most in Decline.

I think Conte will reinvent himself this year and go very close to wining Serie A with Napoli, next year he’ll fall out and be on the market again but right now, right here we must appoint Tuchel, he’s available, knows the EPL, has a brilliant record in Europe with all of his teams, this is a guy that has been to 3 CL Semi Finals and 2 Finals and has 1 victory, he’s won 11 out of 12 domestic and European Semi Finals and 8 from 14 major finals. I think he will be a United Coach for maybe 3 years, maximum 4 but the club will be in a much better position when he leaves.

Many fans forget he had 63% win rate for Chelsea, averages over 2 points per game in all of His last 4 big jobs, Dortmund, PSG, Chelsea and Bayern and averages over 2 goals per game.

United have 31 games left so if he does what he’s good at he would probably get this squad to 70 points and somewhere around 4th-5th, from where we are right now, that would be a monumental transformation.

He also is tactically incredibly flexible and will change From a 4 man defence to 3 or 5 depending on the opposition. He’s miles better than our current coach, clearly wants the job but with the ability to veto transfer which is normal for an elite coach. I also think he will fancy wining the Europa League with Man United and consider that a huge trophy to add to his record.

In 3 or 4 years, the next young genius coach will emerge or coaches like McKenna would be finally ready, but right now we need a sure thing whose available and will not cost any money to negotiate from a club that he’s currently working for?

 

[croadyman]

Sky Sports News is suggesting he won't be getting the boot yet.

Really sad state of affairs if they accept mediocrity

 

[FortunaUtd]

Question;
What were the Poll results for Erik becoming our manager when he initially came to Manchester?

Something like 85% where in favor of ETH or something like that. If I remember correctly at one point it was over 90%!

Ten Hag was the most popular choice and rightly so. He seemed like the best candidate to hire at the time. Let's not forget that.
After more than two years, we can say it has not worked out obviously (while 10 months in it looked very much like it would work out), However a manager not working out is not some catastrophic failure of the club. It's just a normal thing to correct. It also doesn't necessarily mean the decision was wrong at the time.

 

[The Cat]

Ten Hag was the most popular choice and rightly so. He seemed like the best candidate to hire at the time. Let's not forget that.
After more than two years, we can say it has not worked out obviously (while 10 months in it looked very much like it would work out), However a manager not working out is not some catastrophic failure of the club. It's just a normal thing to correct.

How can you say "rightly so"? It so obviously wasn't

 

[FortunaUtd]

How can you say "rightly so"? It so obviously wasn't

Do you mean he "so obviously" wasn't at the time we chose to give him the job? Or that is has become obvious over the course of his tenure?
Because these are two very different things, and I would call BS on the former.

 

[The Cat]

Do you mean he "so obviously" wasn't at the time we chose to give him the job? Or that is has become obvious over the course of his tenure?
Because these are two very different things, and I would call BS on the former.

Well no personally I definitely didn't want him here. Same as most of the players he has influenced in bringing in. You cannot replicate an easier league at a more difficult one.

 

[FortunaUtd]

Well no personally I definitely didn't want him here. Same as most of the players he has influenced in bringing in. You cannot replicate an easier league at a more difficult one.

Managers sucessfully make the jump from an 'easier league' to the PL all the time. It's just that Ten Hag didn't, for us, keeping in mind our manager job has had some difficulties of its own attached to it in recent years which have little to do with league strength. To claim it was obvious that his failure should have been anticipated, I think, is disingenuous and hingsight thinking.

 

[Bwuk]

A lot of rumours and noise it’ll be Carrick.

 

[croadyman]

I genuinely think this is a 2 stage situation, we need a here and now coach that will drag this squad out of the mire and make the team competitive and difficult to beat.

Surely SJR and the Management team have made their mind up already about ETH, he is not a coach who has the personality to manage one of Europe’s biggest Clubs.

Right now we need to pick up wins and sometimes win ugly and stop the team leaking goals, we also need an experienced Elite coach that has EPL experience and can adapt his team formation in each game to get those necessary points, so we must either Appoint Jose, Conte Or Thomas Tuchel, two of them have won the PL and two of them have won the CL, but only one of them has won both but he’s probably the coach who is currently the most in Decline.

I think Conte will reinvent himself this year and go very close to wining Serie A with Napoli, next year he’ll fall out and be on the market again but right now, right here we must appoint Tuchel, he’s available, knows the EPL, has a brilliant record in Europe with all of his teams, this is a guy that has been to 3 CL Semi Finals and 2 Finals and has 1 victory, he’s won 11 out of 12 domestic and European Semi Finals and 8 from 14 major finals. I think he will be a United Coach for maybe 3 years, maximum 4 but the club will be in a much better position when he leaves.

Many fans forget he had 63% win rate for Chelsea, averages over 2 points per game in all of His last 4 big jobs, Dortmund, PSG, Chelsea and Bayern and averages over 2 goals per game.

United have 31 games left so if he does what he’s good at he would probably get this squad to 70 points and somewhere around 4th-5th, from where we are right now, that would be a monumental transformation.

He also is tactically incredibly flexible and will change From a 4 man defence to 3 or 5 depending on the opposition. He’s miles better than our current coach, clearly wants the job but with the ability to veto transfer which is normal for an elite coach. I also think he will fancy wining the Europa League with Man United and consider that a huge trophy to add to his record.

In 3 or 4 years, the next young genius coach will emerge or coaches like McKenna would be finally ready, but right now we need a sure thing whose available and will not cost any money to negotiate from a club that he’s currently working for?

That last paragraph absolutely nails it, fear we get rumours but still stick with Erik unfortunately

 

[The Cat]

Managers sucessfully make the jump from an 'easier league' to the PL all the time. It's just that Ten Hag didn't, for us, keeping in mind our manager job has had some difficulties of its own attached to it in recent years which have little to do with league strength. To claim it was obvious that his failure should have been anticipated, I think, is disingenuous and hingsight thinking.

I think your point is ridiculous. Look at the players. What is the plan? You are the one thinking about hindsight saying whoever wanted him was correct. They very obviously were not.

 

[The Cat]

I genuinely think this is a 2 stage situation, we need a here and now coach that will drag this squad out of the mire and make the team competitive and difficult to beat.

Surely SJR and the Management team have made their mind up already about ETH, he is not a coach who has the personality to manage one of Europe’s biggest Clubs.

Right now we need to pick up wins and sometimes win ugly and stop the team leaking goals, we also need an experienced Elite coach that has EPL experience and can adapt his team formation in each game to get those necessary points, so we must either Appoint Jose, Conte Or Thomas Tuchel, two of them have won the PL and two of them have won the CL, but only one of them has won both but he’s probably the coach who is currently the most in Decline.

I think Conte will reinvent himself this year and go very close to wining Serie A with Napoli, next year he’ll fall out and be on the market again but right now, right here we must appoint Tuchel, he’s available, knows the EPL, has a brilliant record in Europe with all of his teams, this is a guy that has been to 3 CL Semi Finals and 2 Finals and has 1 victory, he’s won 11 out of 12 domestic and European Semi Finals and 8 from 14 major finals. I think he will be a United Coach for maybe 3 years, maximum 4 but the club will be in a much better position when he leaves.

Many fans forget he had 63% win rate for Chelsea, averages over 2 points per game in all of His last 4 big jobs, Dortmund, PSG, Chelsea and Bayern and averages over 2 goals per game.

United have 31 games left so if he does what he’s good at he would probably get this squad to 70 points and somewhere around 4th-5th, from where we are right now, that would be a monumental transformation.

He also is tactically incredibly flexible and will change From a 4 man defence to 3 or 5 depending on the opposition. He’s miles better than our current coach, clearly wants the job but with the ability to veto transfer which is normal for an elite coach. I also think he will fancy wining the Europa League with Man United and consider that a huge trophy to add to his record.

In 3 or 4 years, the next young genius coach will emerge or coaches like McKenna would be finally ready, but right now we need a sure thing whose available and will not cost any money to negotiate from a club that he’s currently working for?

Tuchel.

 

[croadyman]

A lot of rumours and noise it’ll be Carrick.

Where you hearing it from?

 

[Giggsy13]

Have a feeling Ruud will take over on an interim basis for the rest of the season while INEOS do a thorough search for a permanent manager.

 

[golden_blunder]

I genuinely think this is a 2 stage situation, we need a here and now coach that will drag this squad out of the mire and make the team competitive and difficult to beat.

Surely SJR and the Management team have made their mind up already about ETH, he is not a coach who has the personality to manage one of Europe’s biggest Clubs.

Right now we need to pick up wins and sometimes win ugly and stop the team leaking goals, we also need an experienced Elite coach that has EPL experience and can adapt his team formation in each game to get those necessary points, so we must either Appoint Jose, Conte Or Thomas Tuchel, two of them have won the PL and two of them have won the CL, but only one of them has won both but he’s probably the coach who is currently the most in Decline.

I think Conte will reinvent himself this year and go very close to wining Serie A with Napoli, next year he’ll fall out and be on the market again but right now, right here we must appoint Tuchel, he’s available, knows the EPL, has a brilliant record in Europe with all of his teams, this is a guy that has been to 3 CL Semi Finals and 2 Finals and has 1 victory, he’s won 11 out of 12 domestic and European Semi Finals and 8 from 14 major finals. I think he will be a United Coach for maybe 3 years, maximum 4 but the club will be in a much better position when he leaves.

Many fans forget he had 63% win rate for Chelsea, averages over 2 points per game in all of His last 4 big jobs, Dortmund, PSG, Chelsea and Bayern and averages over 2 goals per game.

United have 31 games left so if he does what he’s good at he would probably get this squad to 70 points and somewhere around 4th-5th, from where we are right now, that would be a monumental transformation.

He also is tactically incredibly flexible and will change From a 4 man defence to 3 or 5 depending on the opposition. He’s miles better than our current coach, clearly wants the job but with the ability to veto transfer which is normal for an elite coach. I also think he will fancy wining the Europa League with Man United and consider that a huge trophy to add to his record.

In 3 or 4 years, the next young genius coach will emerge or coaches like McKenna would be finally ready, but right now we need a sure thing whose available and will not cost any money to negotiate from a club that he’s currently working for?

Jose?

 

[croadyman]

Will hold my hands up and admit I wanted him over Pochettino because thought we would see that Ajax brand of Football but never did

 

[Andycoleno9]

It is only October. Hire Tuchel now and watch how we are winning EL easily. Unbelievable what Ineos is doing. After 2 years of him being unable to implement style of play they are still sticking with ETH when it is obvious that he is not solution. While top class manager in his prime is available.

I am desperate for Tuchel because, unlike Jose or Lvg before him, he is not in decline or past his best. Guy is in his prime with proven record of winning stuff and he is tactician type manager. What is there to not like?

 

[croadyman]

Have a feeling Ruud will take over on an interim basis for the rest of the season while INEOS do a thorough search for a permanent manager.

Only thing is that's an awful long time to be interim

 

[DJ_21]

Imagine if we lured Zidane here. The scenes would be mental!

 

[Andycoleno9]

Have a feeling Ruud will take over on an interim basis for the rest of the season while INEOS do a thorough search for a permanent manager.

Hiring interim while team is still in all competitions and with top 4 wide open would be extremely stupid move.

 

[DJ_21]

Only thing is that's an awful long time to be interim

Agreed. We’re only 7 games into the season. Get an interim if it’s like Dec/Jan. we can easily get a Permanent with 7 games in. Even if it’s tempting managers like Frank to give up Brentford. The only reason we’d probably go for an interim at this stage is if we want to go all out for an Alonso/Inzaghi and they won’t leave there clubs in this season.

 

[DJ_21]

It is only October. Hire Tuchel now and watch how we are winning EL easily. Unbelievable what Ineos is doing. After 2 years of him being unable to implement style of play they are still sticking with ETH when it is obvious that he is not solution. While top class manager in his prime is available.

I am desperate for Tuchel because, unlike Jose or Lvg before him, he is not in decline or past his best. Guy is in his prime with proven record of winning stuff and he is tactician type manager. What is there to not like?

Does Tuchel have a set style of play? If so what is it. I’ve read up that he takes game by game and works out how the opposition plays to determine how his teams play.

 

[croadyman]

It is only October. Hire Tuchel now and watch how we are winning EL easily. Unbelievable what Ineos is doing. After 2 years of him being unable to implement style of play they are still sticking with ETH when it is obvious that he is not solution. While top class manager in his prime is available.

I am desperate for Tuchel because, unlike Jose or Lvg before him, he is not in decline or past his best. Guy is in his prime with proven record of winning stuff and he is tactician type manager. What is there to not like?

Completely agree, however some see his personality as too divisive and hammer him for his time at Bayern, despite the fact they were only a Neuer mistake from making Champions League final

 

[FortunaUtd]

I think your point is ridiculous. Look at the players. What is the plan? You are the one thinking about hindsight saying whoever wanted him was correct. They very obviously were not.

Why is my point ridiculous?
You seem to claim that in the decision to hire Ten Hag, every following feck up is already preinscribed.
Spending 100m € on Antony was not predetermined by the hiring of Ten Hag. Most of all, his baffling decision to shun much of his Ajax football in favour of counter attacking football and to abandon any control, how was that predetermined? He was hired on the fecking basis of his Ajax football.

I'm pretty sure if you polled the top 20 of DoFs in 2022 to ask whether Man United made a good appointment with Ten Hag, the vast majority would have said yes.
But hey, you didn't want him, you were right, we were all wrong.

 

[hellhunter]

Completely agree, however some see his personality as too divisive and hammer him for his time at Bayern, despite the fact they were only a Neuer mistake from making Champions League final

Make no mistake, Tuchel is no long term solution. He always falls out with management after a while. But we also don't really need long term, if we have 2-3 good years, that's a solid start

 

[FortunaUtd]

Nearly every club across Europe that has gone down the young, up and coming manager road has had good fortunes so far.

Arteta - Hired as a 37 year old rookie with 3.5 years experience as Pep's assistant.

Amorim - Hired as a 35 year old by Sporting on the back of winning a Taça da Liga during a brief spell as Braga's manager.

Alonso - Went an entire domestic season undefeated as Leverkusen manager. He was 40 when hired. Just 3 years of managerial experience as Real Sociedad B manager prior to taking the job.

Motta - Hired as 41 year old by Juventus after 3 good seasons with Spezia and Bologna. Still undefeated so far this season.

Hoeneß - Hired as a 40 year old by Stuttgart on the back of 2 solid seasons at Hoffenheim. He finished as runner-up to Alonso's Leverkusen last season.

Then you also have McKenna (38) at Ipswich, Hürzeler (31) at Brighton, etc.

Who knows how Kompany will do in the long term, but the style of play is certainly the right approach. He's only 38 and has room to grow. 4 years of managerial experience now.

This approach is something that we haven't tried post Fergie.

That's why I think we should try Iraola.

 

[The Cat]

Why is my point ridiculous?
You seem to claim that in the decision to hire Ten Hag, every following feck up is already preinscribed.
Spending 100m € on Antony was not predetermined by the hiring of Ten Hag. Most of all, his baffling decision to shun much of his Ajax football in favour of counter attacking football and to abandon any control, how was that predetermined? He was hired on the fecking basis of his Ajax football.

I'm pretty sure if you polled the top 20 of DoFs in 2022 to ask whether Man United made a good appointment with Ten Hag, the vast majority would have said yes.
But hey, you didn't want him, you were right, we were all wrong.

Your argument doesn't make any sense at all. Why are you swearing so much? Sorry you are wrong but get over it. You can say you are pretty sure all day but you are still wrong.

 

[Canucantona20]

It is only October. Hire Tuchel now and watch how we are winning EL easily. Unbelievable what Ineos is doing. After 2 years of him being unable to implement style of play they are still sticking with ETH when it is obvious that he is not solution. While top class manager in his prime is available.

I am desperate for Tuchel because, unlike Jose or Lvg before him, he is not in decline or past his best. Guy is in his prime with proven record of winning stuff and he is tactician type manager. What is there to not like?

Agree, get tuchel in and a couple players in January (if possible) and we should be okay.

 

[FortunaUtd]

Your argument doesn't make any sense at all. Why are you swearing so much? Sorry you are wrong but get over it. You can say you are pretty sure all day but you are still wrong.

I'm getting over it, no worries.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

That's why I think we should try Iraola.

I would have taken him in the summer. He extended his contract, which means that more compensation would be required. 21 months left to run on it.

 

[The Cat]

I'm getting over it, no worries.

Hey I got no beef have a good evening

 

[Marwood]

It is only October. Hire Tuchel now and watch how we are winning EL easily. Unbelievable what Ineos is doing. After 2 years of him being unable to implement style of play they are still sticking with ETH when it is obvious that he is not solution. While top class manager in his prime is available.

I am desperate for Tuchel because, unlike Jose or Lvg before him, he is not in decline or past his best. Guy is in his prime with proven record of winning stuff and he is tactician type manager. What is there to not like?

They're all tactician managers. The game is drowned in tactics. ETH is. I think you can visibly see our players thinking through the tactics on the pitch. It's a problem.