Life after ETH — the next United manager

Chesterlestreet said:
The problem for me is this:

I had a hope the new upper management would say thanks but bye after last season.

Which would have been the right time to let him go (let him leave on a high note after the FA Cup final).

If said upper management sack him now (as many people on here seem to want), what the feck does that say about them? What does it say about their overall plan for United?

Surely, if the decision to keep him after last season was based on something rational, an actual plan, they won't abandon that plan because we've started the season in a decidedly underwhelming manner.

So, the question for me isn't about ETH (I actually actively dislike him at this point, and I've wanted him gone for a long time), but about the people above him.

Which is depressing, because nothing seems to have changed (United's problem has been the level above the "manager" ever since SAF retired, not the "manager" himself).
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I agree that he should have gone after last season. It should have been a thanks for the 2 domestic trophies but now we want someone who will push us forward in Europe and challenge for the title

Ten Hag leaves with a high stock and United move forward toward their ambitions which Ten Hag was never the man for

But I think it is harsh to claim “nothing has changed above him” - Wilcox was the only one in official capacity. They were all new to the club and didn’t know how Erik would work under their structure yet. Continuity at a time of upheaval was mentioned on the Athletic too.

If United continue this shitshow and are outside the CL places in a couple of months time then I can accept the onus is then firmly on the new regime
 
DutchSerb said:
I'd prefer Xavi over Tuchel.
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Agreed. Need someone who can come in and make us play football like a modern team. Not panic in possession, know how to take care of the ball in tight spaces.
He may or may not win us the league, but a few years of Xavi will make us move closer to becoming the modern football team we need to.
 
Xavi who won La Liga the season before last is still without a club, unbelievable really. I'm surprised that United didn't go in for him in the summer. I said on here he'd be my choice going forward. At least he'd be inclined by nature to sign some talented Spanish players who perhaps aren't playing for the top 4 clubs at present.
 
Tuchel and McKenna seemed to be the main two candidates in the summer. I'd have taken either in the summer but the latter has signed a new contract and felt like someone we had to move for in the off season for it to work.

I like Enrique but he doesn't feel like a particularly realistic option. Nagelsmann's head could potentially be turned by the right offer.

You're scratching around a bit after that - there's the obvious shout of Ruud van Nistelrooy as an interim but that's not necessarily where you'd set your ambitions. Iraola could be an exciting option but would be a pretty massive gamble at this stage of his career.

We need to do something though. This idea of being stuck in purgatory indefinitely because the current manager is shit and the next guy could be is lunacy. Make a change and see where we land, it can't be worse than the hell of the last 12 months.
 
Sarni said:
That’s it, we are on track to win the double. Might not win CL because we are not in it but will compensate with EL I guess.

But seriously, what is it with excusing him by simply digging up that one time in history where something similar may have occurred? It was the same with last years CL exit, apparently it was completely acceptable because it happened to Fergie as well (some even argued our group was ‘tricky’).

We have been in relegation form over the last 15-20 games, basically picking up just over 1 ppg.
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That’s just complete nonsense spooting to find some arguments to keep ETH.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
What about Lionel Scaloni, he has won the last 2 Copa's with Argentina along with the last World Cup and the Intercontinental Cup.
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Zero club football experience. It's very unlikely he could cut it at club football level...especially if his first ever task was taking Manchester fecking United back to the top.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
The problem for me is this:

I had a hope the new upper management would say thanks but bye after last season.

Which would have been the right time to let him go (let him leave on a high note after the FA Cup final).

If said upper management sack him now (as many people on here seem to want), what the feck does that say about them? What does it say about their overall plan for United?

Surely, if the decision to keep him after last season was based on something rational, an actual plan, they won't abandon that plan because we've started the season in a decidedly underwhelming manner.

So, the question for me isn't about ETH (I actually actively dislike him at this point, and I've wanted him gone for a long time), but about the people above him.

Which is depressing, because nothing seems to have changed (United's problem has been the level above the "manager" ever since SAF retired, not the "manager" himself).
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If the club isn't sacking just because they don't want to appear like idiots to the public and save face then that makes everything worse.

I'm more of the opinion that in this circumstances the best a club can do is cut their losses and move on. They can make mistakes but doubling down on them just to save face makes things worse for everyone. Ten Hag should had been sacked and replaced a long time ago and it feels like the longer they keep him around is a big waste of time and resources.

Anyway you're right about questioning what the actual plan is from the people making this decisions , hopefully they're not being reactionary but only time will tell.
 
RDCR07 said:
What about Ruben Amorim? Sporting are scoring for fun this year and are top of the league. They have won 4 in a row, scored 16 goals and conceded only 2 so far in 4 games.
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I happily would have taken him. I’m still up for replacing ten Hag with him.
 
Cristophe Galtier is the the manager I'd like brought in and I feel he could turn our fortunes around pretty quickly.

He joined a Saint Etienne side battling relegation. He saved them from relegation and in the following 7 seasons, got them European football on 4 occasions. He also handed them their first cup win in 32 years with a Coupe de la Ligue win.

He took over a Lille side in turmoil mid season and saved them from relegation. In his first full season, he took them to 2nd in the division and handed them their first Champions league football in 7 years.
2 seasons later, he pulled off the impossible and won the Ligue 1 title with them. Their first league title in 10 years, beating a PSG side with Mbappe, Neymar, Di Maria, Verratti etc.

He replaced Pochettino at PSG winning another Ligue 1 title and a domestic cup.

3 x Ligue 1 Manager of the year.

There was some controversy from his time at Nice but he was quickly proven innocent after a short trial. Considering he's currently managing in Qatar, I think that proves a lot of the claims about him were completely false and he was adamant on is innocence throughout the whole ordeal.

He's currently leading the Qatar league table with 3 wins from 3 but obviously it can't be compared to the PL. He's better judged on what he achieved in France which I think is mighty impressive.

My only doubt on him would be the English language. I don't think he could speak it a few years back but it's possible he does now.


I'd take him over the likes of Tuchel, Southgate and Potter in a heartbeat
 
RDCR07 said:
What about Ruben Amorim? Sporting are scoring for fun this year and are top of the league. They have won 4 in a row, scored 16 goals and conceded only 2 so far in 4 games.
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Sporting want a ridulous release fee which is why he isnt the Liverpool manager
 
Hope the next manager is a possession based coach. Maybe not a usual name would be exciting.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
But I think it is harsh to claim “nothing has changed above him”
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Yeah, you're right.

But I did say seemingly...

And I suppose what I'm worried about is that...

Well, let's say that my hopes for United's future don't hang on any current United "manager" at all. They (my hopes) have far more to do with the people above him. I have been hoping for years that we would get a competent management (yes, a "structure") in place above the bloke responsible for picking the team, i.e. the "manager".

I don't understand why ETH was kept on at all, in any capacity, by the people I hope are decidedly above him on the football side.

And because of that, I am somewhat worried (and this shite start to the season obviously has done nothing to make me less worried).
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Yeah, you're right.

But I did say seemingly...

And I suppose what I'm worried about is that...

Well, let's say that my hopes for United's future don't hang on any current United "manager" at all. They (my hopes) have far more to do with the people above him. I have been hoping for years that we would get a competent management (yes, a "structure") in place above the bloke responsible for picking the team, i.e. the "manager".

I don't understand why ETH was kept on at all, in any capacity, by the people I hope are decidedly above him on the football side.

And because of that, I am somewhat worried (and this shite start to the season obviously has done nothing to make me less worried).
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Because the football management side of things have only been in post together for about a month.
 
Acheron said:
They can make mistakes but doubling down on them just to save face makes things worse for everyone.
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Yes, of course.

I actually have a - tiny - hope that something has changed in that regard.

As in: INEOS will be more ruthless than the Glazers/Woodward.

But it all boils down to whether they (INEOS) actually know what the feck they're doing in terms of hiring the right people.

Being ruthless is only positive if you're clever. An idiot is still an idiot no matter how ruthless he is.
 
I think ETH isn't suited to the league and the level of the Eredivisie makes a move for managers like him a gamble. Liverpool seem to have gotten lucky, but I don't think there is validity in pursuing that approach. I think we should be looking to bring in managers who have performed well and implemented systems in England, Spain or Italy. These are the top leagues with high intensity and difficult tactical battles. What's clear with ETH is that his in game decision making leaves a lot to be desired. He's also unable to contend with the speed and physicality required in England, which was not much of a problem in Holland. I'm also cautious of Germany, despite the success of Klopp, Tuchel and Nagelsmann, as like Ligue 1, its always been a one man league, and the difference in quality between the top team and the rest is stark. We aren't Brighton, where we can afford to gamble.

I know this line of thinking would have disqualified managers like Mourinho and Klopp, but in truth, there aren't really too many managers coming directly from these other leagues that have been able to adapt to the top teams in the league, so its better not to take that risk.
 
LankyHoggie said:
He spent 200m per summer, the fact that Liverpool have a better team is a travesty, to his own incompetence as a coach and a scout.
He is a complete failure and a joke.
Tuchel is a better coach in his sleep, much less of a mumbling wanker too.

You think any of the other 19 teams in the league rather face a borderline schizophrenic United team by Ten Hag or a United team led by Tuchel?
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I can’t stand Tuchel. Wouldn’t get any support from me and would be the wrong choice yet again. Mourinho mark two.
 
Unai Emery or Nagglesmann would be my choices. Both tactical excellent and set up teams to get on the front foot
 
Not that I want him but how RVN's time at PSV as their manager and why was he let go?
 
Chesterlestreet said:
The problem for me is this:

I had a hope the new upper management would say thanks but bye after last season.

Which would have been the right time to let him go (let him leave on a high note after the FA Cup final).

If said upper management sack him now (as many people on here seem to want), what the feck does that say about them? What does it say about their overall plan for United?

Surely, if the decision to keep him after last season was based on something rational, an actual plan, they won't abandon that plan because we've started the season in a decidedly underwhelming manner.

So, the question for me isn't about ETH (I actually actively dislike him at this point, and I've wanted him gone for a long time), but about the people above him.

Which is depressing, because nothing seems to have changed (United's problem has been the level above the "manager" ever since SAF retired, not the "manager" himself).
Click to expand...

Mistakes happen. People get things wrong all the time - the trick is to adapt and learn from mistakes. Ten Hag seems to refuse to do so, but INEOS don't have to.
 
TheReligion said:
Because the football management side of things have only been in post together for about a month.
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Yes, I can - sort of - see that.

I still don't get the idea of keeping ETH in the role when the easiest and most natural thing in the world would have been to thank him for his services and let him leave on a high note.

The football management side of things - as you say - haven't recently arrived from Alpha Centauri, not having followed ETH's progress at United.

Jim's people were in touch with Ashworth (of course) long before the end of last season.
 
Laurencio said:
Mistakes happen. People get things wrong all the time - the trick is to adapt and learn from mistakes. Ten Hag seems to refuse to do so, but INEOS don't have to.
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Well, yes - true.

Perhaps it's as simple as that.

But as a United fan, you can't blame me for doubting the owners' ability to hire the right people!
 
Remember the geese said:
I'd rather we bring in Ruud as the interim so that we can appoint the 'right man' next summer as opposed to the 'available man' right now.
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There is a whole season to play
The “right man” could easily step in and if they can’t then they aren’t the “right man”
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Yes, I can - sort of - see that.

I still don't get the idea of keeping ETH in the role when the easiest and most natural thing in the world would have been to thank him for his services and let him leave on a high note.

The football management side of things - as you say - haven't recently arrived from Alpha Centauri, not having followed ETH's progress at United.

Jim's people were in touch with Ashworth (of course) long before the end of last season.
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It’s not just as simple as watching United on MoTD and making a decision to fire him remotely on Teams.

They all need to be in post and inside the club itself. Understand how he works and more importantly if he can deliver what they want in terms of direction.

I get everyone wants to see a positive season and hopefully one way or another we will get that, but for me you really can’t fault the ownership for wanting to at least get their people in the door before doing anything drastic. Ideally Ashworth would have been in sooner but Newcastle played silly beggars and dragged it out.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Yeah, you're right.

But I did say seemingly...

And I suppose what I'm worried about is that...

Well, let's say that my hopes for United's future don't hang on any current United "manager" at all. They (my hopes) have far more to do with the people above him. I have been hoping for years that we would get a competent management (yes, a "structure") in place above the bloke responsible for picking the team, i.e. the "manager".

I don't understand why ETH was kept on at all, in any capacity, by the people I hope are decidedly above him on the football side.

And because of that, I am somewhat worried (and this shite start to the season obviously has done nothing to make me less worried).
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I do understand that. But I think they’ll be better placed to judge him and judge what the club needs when they’ve been here two minutes too.

Managers don’t often last long under new ownership but very few will sack the manager the second they walk through the door. This is their first full season and so I’d expect that decision to be made soon.

I would count the summer “review” as INEOS and co getting the lay of the land. And now when they next have a decision to make, they will be in a better position to make it
 
The reports coming from the club are that the structure above the manager will decide the game model and bring in managers/players to fulfill that.

The reports are also that the recruitment structure were the ones pushing for Ugarte to be signed, with ETH needing to be convinced.

Assuming both reports are true and some joined-up thinking is in place, that targeting of Ugarte tells you something about the game model they wish to pursue. I think Ugarte is a good signing, but he is absolutely not a player suited to certain types of teams, which is partly why he was eventually sidelined under Enrique.

As such, I suspect anyone suggesting an extremely possession-focused manager is likely to be disappointed.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
I do understand that. But I think they’ll be better placed to judge him and judge what the club needs when they’ve been here two minutes too.

Managers don’t often last long under new ownership but very few will sack the manager the second they walk through the door. This is their first full season and so I’d expect that decision to be made soon.

I would count the summer “review” as INEOS and co getting the lay of the land. And now when they next have a decision to make, they will be in a better position to make it
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Agree with this. The fact ETH only had his 1 yr extension triggered rather than a full new contract to me suggested they were ambivalent about him staying on. However with the CEO, DOF and Technical Director were all brand new to post, I suspect they needed more time to figure out what kind of manager they think the club needs. And its a lot easier to let the last guy stay on a bit longer than to appoint a new one straight away and then realise he isn't right either.

A lot of fans want ETH gone now, and we shouldn't underestimate the boost to morale and the sense of a fresh beginning that a new manager can bring. But, as with our transfers this summer, there's a certain maturity to the decision they made that I can get behind. Solid rather than spectacular, which is what need more of.
 
quadrant said:
Agree with this. The fact ETH only had his 1 yr extension triggered rather than a full new contract to me suggested they were ambivalent about him staying on. However with the CEO, DOF and Technical Director were all brand new to post, I suspect they needed more time to figure out what kind of manager they think the club needs. And its a lot easier to let the last guy stay on a bit longer than to appoint a new one straight away and then realise he isn't right either.

A lot of fans want ETH gone now, and we shouldn't underestimate the boost to morale and the sense of a fresh beginning that a new manager can bring. But, as with our transfers this summer, there's a certain maturity to the decision they made that I can get behind. Solid rather than spectacular, which is what need more of.
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The only reason ETH is here is because we couldn't find a good replacement in time after Tuchel appeared to back out. Therefore retaining ETH immediately relegated him to lame duck status until such time as we hit our inevitable rough patch, which we appear to already have done just two games in. He has no credibility as manager at this point and the club would do well to move him on before things get toxic with the fan base and in the dressing room.
 
Raoul said:
The only reason ETH is here is because we couldn't find a good replacement in time after Tuchel appeared to back out. Therefore retaining ETH immediately relegated him to lame duck status until such time as we hit our inevitable rough patch, which we appear to already have done just two games in. He has no credibility as manager at this point and the club would do well to move him on before things get toxic with the fan base and in the dressing room.
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I'm content to see where we are at the end of the season before deciding whether their current play is right or wrong. I certainly hope that the days of sacking the manager, then looking around and asking "now what?" are behind us.
 
Laurencio said:
Mistakes happen. People get things wrong all the time - the trick is to adapt and learn from mistakes. Ten Hag seems to refuse to do so, but INEOS don't have to.
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This... What kind of person fecks up over and over but doesn't fix their mistake.
 
Cant see ETH going very shortly , as others have said it will be christmas at the earliest. I just cant see him turning this around its been pretty woeful for a long time now.

Unai Emery would be a good choice , been outstanding at villa.

I would also not mind either Marco Silva or Graham Potter given a chance , think they could implemet some structured football.

Other than that anyone who can make the team enjoyable to watch again -Big Ange Postecoglu comes to mind here with his relentless football. Having that exiting feeling on matchday seems a distant memory at the moment

Tuchel and Southgate are a big no for me, never ends well for Tuchel and Southgate is too afraid.
 
Everybody keeps mentioning RvN yet seem to be forgetting we also appointed Rene Hake from Go Ahead Eagles, I reckon he is the one who would step up with RvN assisting him.
 
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