I will likely stop watching football altogether if Southgate is brought in. Anyone but him please.
Life after ETH — the next United manager
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
Agree would rather keep Ten Hag at least there’s still a tiny chance of good football someday with him.
Have you seen our financial? We need an improvement now so that stem the bleeding; get Ashworth, Wilcox and Vivel the time to continue the rebuild in the background by picking up more signings like Kone and getting the sports science right whilst we move up the table. First step is to get ETH out, bring in a coach to stabilize things and use the rest of the season to scout a long term replacement.
He was the hipster choice and completely overrated by them. Again the next big thing is not going to be a 50 year old who never managed outside the Dutch league.
No, there is no need for that. The only dud we signed under ETH was Antony, and even he can be a useful rotation option at a stretch. It's just that he's a 25m player at best, and we somehow paid 80m for him.
We have a good squad and Tuchel would love the likes of Onana, de Ligt, and Martínez. Even players who were already here before ETH would be very suitable for his football: Rashford, Maguire, Fernandes, Dalot, Shaw, to name a few.
The only first team player in the whole squad who I can realistically see end up being surplus to requirements under a new manager is Ugarte.
We do have a good squad and there's no need to gut the squad again, no matter who our manager is going to be at the start of next season.
What the squad needs right now IMO, is for them to grow collectively in a stable, efficient environment and tactical system for the next 2-3 years, with 2-3 quality additions every summer. We will assemble a monster squad by then if this happens.
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I think Solskjaer would struggle even more without McKenna and Carrick who actually lead the training sessions while Solskjaer sat in his office for a good amount of time
When Bayern and Barcelona are dead set on a managerial target they act fast and seldom miss. Ultimately Ten Hag's only seriously reported interest and sole actual offer came from Liepzig.
Spurs turned Ten Hag down after an awkward interview which left the club puzzled about Ten Hag's vision, lack of charisma, poor english and poor communication. Ten Hag also supposedly didn't have a prepared list of coaching staff of his own choosing and asked Spurs if they could provide him with backroom staff. Ten Hag only had one coach with him.
People need to get over the idea of new manager = new rebuild.
We aren't doing that anymore. The club has people in place who will dictate the coming and going of players. New managers, quite rightly, are not going to get carte blanche to tear up the predecessors team and start from scratch again. Whoever comes in will work with what we have and what they are able to get. It's about continuity now, because we have that on the level above the manager. The era of jumping from rebuild to rebuild is over.
We aren't doing that anymore. The club has people in place who will dictate the coming and going of players. New managers, quite rightly, are not going to get carte blanche to tear up the predecessors team and start from scratch again. Whoever comes in will work with what we have and what they are able to get. It's about continuity now, because we have that on the level above the manager. The era of jumping from rebuild to rebuild is over.
Did Ashworth sign De Zerbi for Brighton before leaving for Newcastle?
It seemed to happen the same year.
His coaching is quite interesting.
It seemed to happen the same year.
His coaching is quite interesting.
What?! Ye because them 2 managers have a pile of trophies that they’ve won haven’t they.
Think we’ve missed out on De Zerbi now. We had a great chance in the summer
de Zerbi would be a terrible choice. Lost the plot last season at BHA, only Ligue 1 stragglers OM would want him.
Can't see how RdZ comes close to any elite team
building, either. Plus his attitude with Greenwood is appalling.
We hope to God Ashworth hasn't got this quote projected on powerpoint and is presenting it to 'Sir Jim' as we speak.
'Look Jim, the fanbase love our boy...'
Lucky miss.
Some of the names associated with Ineos are frightening. de Zerbi, Potter, Southgate, Frank - all woeful appointments.
Man said ugarte. Please explain. There’s no serious manager in world football who would keep Bruno, rashford Maguire etc if they performed how they have performed once.
The obsession for Tuchel by certain parts of the fan base is just odd to me. Fluked a Champions League win with Chelsea but the rest of his career has been poor league campaigns. United needs a manager who’s willing to focus on the league until we improve.
Even last night I personally thought the starting 11 was too strong. Europa League should be an afterthought. We now go into a game against Spurs with most players playing midweek and we didn’t even get the result.
Even last night I personally thought the starting 11 was too strong. Europa League should be an afterthought. We now go into a game against Spurs with most players playing midweek and we didn’t even get the result.
As far as we know, he didn't. It's actually interesting that Ashworth has such a strong CV but has seemingly not appointed a manager at any of his recent clubs. Went to Brighton after they had already appointed Potter. Left and joined Newcastle after they had already appointed Eddie Howe. Chelsea poach Potter and Brighton appoint De Zerbi after Ashworth has already left. Even the one appointment everyone seems to be holding against him - Southgate at England - I'm not sure how involved he was in actually making that choice. He was the FA Director of Elite Development and his role seems more about restructuring the coach/player development model at the FA. So his role seems more about moving England in the direction of a more possession/technical style of play and restructuring the coaching programs offered by the FA to identify and promote coaches who could achieve this. As well as hiring the right coaches at youth levels to help develop this identity, I guess. Hiring the England manager seems to me to be outside his remit, though I'm sure he was consulted. But it is worth noting there that Southgate only got the job, initially on an interim basis, because they had to sack Sam Allardyce after some scandal which I now don't remember the details of. Again, I don't think Ashworth was involved in hiring the England manager, but if you believe he's the guy who hired Southgate, he's surely also the guy who hired Allardyce. Which is an even more appalling thought.
At any rate, I reckon the next managerial appointment is not going be solely Ashworth's decision either. Wilcox is the Technical Director, so appointing technical staff (like the coach) is surely his remit. I imagine Ashworth, Wilcox, and perhaps even Vivell will all be involved in the decision in some capacity. Ineos went through a similar restructuring of the football staff at Nice last summer (as in before 23/24) and they certainly seem to have their ducks in a row there. Seemingly offered the job to Potter - who, even if he struggled under the glare at Chelsea is a great choice for the level of club Nice are - and ended up with Francesco Farioli, finishing 5th. Farioli gets poached by Ajax (after Ajax allegedly tried to get Potter but Potter ultimately turned them down), announced on 23 May 2024, and Nice announce Franck Haise on 6 June 2024 which suggests to me they already had the succession plan lined up. Given Ashworth and Wilcox seem to be highly regarded, I'd hope for a similarly swift/competent operation
One of the posters above mentioned Seb Hoeness as a choice and I'd like to second that. Took over Stuttgart when they were bottom of the table with 6 games to go and a year later had them finishing ahead of Tuchel's Bayern having spent ~20 million. Add another summer where they lost their main goalscorer (Guirassy) as well as 2 of their starting back 4 (Anton and Ito), and he has them outplaying Real Madrid at the Bernabeu (at least in the first half). I'm hoping Vivell's background in German football means he'd know about him (Hoeness was actually the RB Leipzig youth team coach between 2014 and 2017, but I'm not sure if Vivell worked there at the time).
Hoeness also had the Bayern B job after Ten Hag and did better than Ten Hag at that job - actually winning the Bundesliga 3rd division (and I can't think of higher qualification for a Man United manager than that!). But didn't really do great at Hoffenheim after and obviously has nothing to match Ten Hag's achievements at Ajax. He'd be a massive risk but his system has been shown to work in a top 5 league at least and his Stuttgart team are certainly very easy on the eye.
The easy option is obviously Simone Inzaghi but I'm not sure if he's keen on leaving Italy.
While it's true that he hasn't consistently delivered great league campaigns, it's wrong to claim that he only had poor league campaigns. Looking at recent years he improved Bayern's results compared to (late) Nagelsmann (at least until it was clear they wouldn't catch Leverkusen).
He got Chelsea rolling for a time, but all that stuff around Abramovic, sanctions and the takeover pretty much derailed everything there.
He delivered on paar performance with PSG in my opinion.
He delivered the second best league season in the history of Borussia Dortmund (only beaten by one of Klopp's two title winning season)
He managed to reach the EL with Mainz for the first time in their history.
So it's definitely better than poor, but I get that you are cautious about him.
Lost the plot? They came 11th last season. This is Brighton we're talking about.
Ten Hag has won trophies in Holland and a couple of cups here, I don’t think that qualifies him as being massively better than the jobs Potter and Southgate did with Brighton and England respectively. In England Ten Hag is just as unproven as anyone else for me.
The good thing with managers is that you can sack them if it doesn`t work out the way you hoped for. You don`t have to give them all a minimum of 2 years. All in the name of the tired old ”But Fergie got time at the start”.
Fergie level managers are rare as feck.
Fergie level managers are rare as feck.
I don’t know why you’ve cut half my quote out, but no I don’t think he’s proven to be massively better than Southgate. Not that I rate Gareth highly, but Ten Hag is rated far beyond what he’s actually shown in England so far. He’s rated alongside Pep, Klopp etc when for me I think he rightly should be compared to the likes of Potter, Southgate, Thomas Frank, Pochettino.
Can we please try and tempt Nagelsmann away from the NT.
Are we tbe only club who doesn’t have a new manager bounce. I mean apart of we playing world class football under Ole, albeit when he was interim, I don’t seem to recall we having that …. I’ve been so frustrated with ETH that I would now take a new manager bounce over a rebuild
I cant find it now (it was on newsnow I think) but this week I was reading how Inzaghi would like to try managing in the premier league. This could be a goer.
Maybe the new board will pull someone out of leftfield, but imo ideally Alonso, or a cheeky bid for Klopp. Offer enough money and you never know.
Should’ve gone for de Zerbi in the summer when he was available. I do think Ineos botched the whole ETH thing in the summer. They took too long to make a decision, openly flirted with Tuchel and ended up keeping ETH.
There's one very obvious solution staring us right in the face....McKenna.
We all know how this will pan out. Ruud will see us out till the end of the season before we make a permanent appointment in the summer. Yet another season wasted.
We should go for Inzaghi in the summer.
We should go for Inzaghi in the summer.
No chance Alonso joins us imo. I do still highly rate Nagelsmann but I'm not sure he'd leave the German national set up
Was the problem name a famous hypnotist?
Replace Ole's replacement with Ole's coach or get RvN to replace Ole's replacement for continuity Solskjaer.
Grimbo.
Yes. For the last nineteen games of the season, they were the second worst club in our division.
Started well, impressed, then completely fell apart when shit got real. Sound familiar?
He's won nothing, either.
de Zerbi, Southgate, Frank, Potter et al? Or stick with EtH?
Reminds me of Withnail and I:
'We are drifting into the arena of the unwell, making an enemy of our own future'.
It is another season wasted and I’d really like to know what INEOS hoped for. They expected ETH to change overnight?
Yet De Zerbi is joint top of the French league with Marseille. Beating Lyon at the weekend with 10 men.
You seriously don’t understand football then if this is your view. A couple of leagues/cups in Holland plus a couple in his first couple of years in England. Isn’t better than potter who won nothing at Brighton, and Southgate who won the ‘we got to 2 finals cup’ . Nice one
He’s not joint top, he’s second, as PSG have a better goal difference
and it’s literally only been 5 games too. Did you say we shared the title with City in 2012?
Are we there yet?
I think just saying someone doesn’t understand the topic means you don’t understand how to have a reasonable debate. A quality of a manager and how many trophies you win isn’t linear for me. I’d put Klopp at Pep’s level if not higher, but he didn’t win nearly as much in his career as Pep has.
Click on any page of this thread. There will be no popular stand out choice
As the Athletic touched on, that (there being no stand out choice) is a big reason why they stuck with Erik in the summer. And nothing has changed
If Madrid suddenly sack Carlo, or Alonso quits Leverkusen, then maybe things will change
There were quite a few rumours about why Amorin didn't get the Liverpool job, with two of them being that he wanted too much power in transfers or (and?) that he was very specific about what tactics the team would use and they weren't what Liverpool wanted. If those are true he's probably not the one we should go for either. Well, not unless the tactics he wanted is also similar to what Utd's new hierarchy want us to play with.
Frank is a good manager. He's been doing a really good job in the Premier League for years now, making that Brentford side much greater than the sum of their parts in my opinion.
I'm not saying he's the guy I'd want in, but I'm pretty confident he'd do better than Ten Hag is doing now though, and definitely wouldn't be a 'woeful' appointment.
I'm not convinced by the ex Brighton guys at all though.
I think its telling that there really is no consensus pick among fans. Pretty sure the clear majority of people after Rangnick wanted ETH, with most others wanting Poch. This time round its spread over a bunch of names.
I think its only a matter of time before ETH goes. The next bad run will see him off, and we look suspiciously like we're in another such run now. But I think the lack of clear candidates reflects the challenge Ineos have, because it highlights the risk around getting rid of ETH. If we're forced to appoint now, its unlikely we'll get our first pick. And the worst outcome would be to get a second choice manager now, only to see our first choice manager available in the summer, and not be able to get him. Spending 7 months with a caretaker is not exactly enticing either. There isn't really a good outcome.
I think its only a matter of time before ETH goes. The next bad run will see him off, and we look suspiciously like we're in another such run now. But I think the lack of clear candidates reflects the challenge Ineos have, because it highlights the risk around getting rid of ETH. If we're forced to appoint now, its unlikely we'll get our first pick. And the worst outcome would be to get a second choice manager now, only to see our first choice manager available in the summer, and not be able to get him. Spending 7 months with a caretaker is not exactly enticing either. There isn't really a good outcome.
Thomas Frank would take it, wouldn't he? He feels like one of the more likely candidates anyway.
In a hypothetical scenario where Klopp didn't leave Liverpool, and Ten Hag left, who on here would've picked Arnie Slot?
The name doesn't really matter. The point is there doesn't need to be concensus amongst fans, we have experienced and knowledgeable people employed by Ineos to find a suitable candidate out of the thousands of football managers who exist around the world.
I have a very hard time believing that no one exists (outside of the obvious handful of high profile names) who couldn't do a good job with the squad we have. Sticking with a manager we already know to be shit, simply because we can't hire Pep or Klopp or Ancelotti, seems very short sighted and lacking in ambition.