Because he was selected when they knew the jig was up and after Rangnick had spelt it out. Our football was incoherent, our squad chaotic, our manager a talentless but well loved yes man, and what tactics we had were primitive. The solution was to find a coach who could create a modern team and then start finding players to fit in around that. That is a long process hampered by a non existent club sporting structure. It's going about the way I expected so I'm not just going to give up on it just now. But clearly one has to adapt to failure so let's see where we are in New Year. Art some point the manager is less important than the process.
Life after ETH — the next United manager
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Because he was selected when they knew the jig was up and after Rangnick had spelt it out. Our football was incoherent, our squad chaotic, our manager a talentless but well loved yes man, and what tactics we had were primitive. The solution was to find a coach who could create a modern team and then start finding players to fit in around that. That is a long process hampered by a non existent club sporting structure. It's going about the way I expected so I'm not just going to give up on it just now. But clearly one has to adapt to failure so let's see where we are in New Year. Art some point the manager is less important than the process.
I was desperate for us to get ETH but it’s just not going to work out. At this stage though, I just want a manager that can command the respect of the dressing room and get us playing in a well structured and organised way. The bar is pretty low.
If we lose to Barnsley, Spurs, Palace and Villa, ten Hag is done. ten Hag is on a short leash and INEOS have positioned themselves to sack him without much of any financial consequences.
I'm not sure where this consensus comes form? In the interview from Ashworth around the time the UCL fixtures were announced he said very specifically:
Dan Ashworth:
"United compete in every competition to win it and the Europa league is no different. We'll be going all out to try and lift the trophy at the end of the season as we are in the other competitions that we're in this season".
This idea that Erik can lose at least 5 of the opening 10 games is nonsensical, from Ashworth's comments being a representative of the hierarchy INEOS are demanding the team and manager win. I don't think they'll accept anything less than being competitive given the advocacy of changes throughout the club.
I don't think there is any way to say we have become more compact or energetic. Marginally perhaps, but its much of the same as last season. The sample size this season is too small anyway, but we've lost two games and just about won one.
The big chances created in for example the Liverpool game also need the context of us being already 3-0 down and Liverpool having sat back a bit, having had multiple big chances of their own beforehand.
Yes, all the players do seem to be playing for him, which makes his inadequacies as a head coach all the more obvious. He has been given every tool available to do the job and is not doing it well. If you think anything bar relegation form (which we have been close to for some time), will cut the mustard with this expensive squad then you are sadly deluded.
We've been in semi relegation form for the guts of a year, continuing into this season, and our goal difference has been in the minuses for the majority of his tenure. There's actually been zero progress since March 2023. After the league cup win it was all downhill.
He's finished.
I'd take Chris Wilder as manager at this point, perhaps we could do a swap.
If there‘s progress the results are secondary. Normally speaking if the team plays well, they will get more points.
Caveat : you have to score at least half the big chances you create. We haven‘t.
The first part is true.
The second part is a cop out. In reality we overperformed our expected points last season, meaning our players being clinical bailed out a poor overall game layout.
I don't really care who our manager is. I just want a manager that knows how to train his team to keep possesion of the ball and to know how to kill a game. Also a trainer that trains his players to score more than 1 goal per game would be nice.
You are simply deluded. We did not play well in any of the games. We lost the midfield battle vs Brighton and Pool dominated us. Either you are a wum or simply delusional.
I‘m discussing this season, not the last. If we don‘t get more clinical, we will drop a lot more points.
I don't think that statement can be used in any way to define the predicament of the current manager.
By Erik's own admission the criteria which he's basing his own success on is two domestic titles, those are result based initiatives not anything to do with philosophy, ethos or tactical nuances.
Ashworth's comments are a preliminary way of defining progress, Erik has absolutely failed in three consecutive seasons to get United to play cohesively. There's no realistic sentiment by saying the team needs to progress when that requirement is customary of any manager after a few training sessions with the team.
The judgement as stated in the directive of the assessment of the team and manager is to deliver results. There's no other criteria that we can subjectively superimpose outside of what's come from the DOF directly.
For the first two league games and the Community Shield, you have a point, as I think the performances were better than your average game vs mid-table opposition last season, both home and away, although we didn't exert nearly enough control in either game.
However, ETH messed it up monumentally vs Liverpool IMO, even though without Casemiro and with a bit of luck, we could've got something out of that game...but ultimately he didn't give the team the highest possible chances of winning the game.
I think we'll need to exert more control, have more possession, and dominate all phases of play at least against mid-table and lower-table teams for ETH to survive the season IMO.
I do think the likes of Hojlund, Yoro, Shaw, and Ugarte will help us a lot, but the manager will most likely have to tweak his system in order to survive, otherwise this squad will keep underperforming and we won't make top 4, which we really should with the players we have.
Agree. That would be the progress that needs to be shown.
That last bit I don‘t agree with, we have an attack that is inconsistent compared to Newcastle and Villa for starters. If our attack doesn‘t switch on, we could miss out on top four again very easily.
Haha close to completion after one window who are you actually kidding, then again NL in the username says will back him to the hilt
There is zero chance he stays on if we finish 10th or something in the PL.
I would be surprised if we keep ETH if we don't finish in the top 5 in the PL (UCL places most likely). 6th - 7th and he's probably gone, barring some massive injuries or other crazy poor luck. Even then I'd still bet on him being relieved of duty. It's really hard to show "progression" and finish in largely the same disappointing place you did the previous year.
I think even finishing 4th-5th there's some chance we replace him, just bc it doesn't seem like the new regime is all that fond of ETH (based on their summer search). But I'd probably bet on him staying on another season at that point. Firing him would require having the right replacement lined up, which may not happen.
People can talk about progression being what matters, but most times your progression will show in the standings. We just simply can't finish way outside UCL again if he wants to keep the job.
It’s the job of the manager to switch it on
Stand by your manager. We can’t become a sacking club, we have to be better than that. We exist to serve Erik ten Hag.
I could stick with him until we hire Hansi Flick. I want to experience that happiness after long suffering.
Flick love in is weird, I'd have very little faith in him.
Flick is in his honwymoon period just like Slot. You were all giving Mate a reach around last season.
I think the trio of Rashford, Fernandes and Hojlund should be enough to make top 4 and to not worry about any Newcastle or Villa attack, and also at least accumulate 75 points in a league season if the team around them is also decent, which it is.
What‘s up with Flick, I thought Nagelsman was the Caf‘s sweetheart?
Nagelsman is a good successor to Ten Hag, he likes suicidal tactics too.
Nagelsman is a good successor to Ten Hag, he likes suicidal tactics too.
Nothing meaningful can be said about any progress this season yet. If anything, the games so far suggest no relevant progress has been made, but, again, too soon to tell for certain.
Is it just mean that thinks the thread title sounds like ten Hag has died?
I like your sarcasm.
To be fair I am not trying to give off the impression of being in any way serious about this anymore, I just hate the idea of him being here and even more so the fact that I'm resigned to him being pretty much untouchable for the next few months. Hope this despair ends sooner rather than later and INEOS put us out of misery.It’s just mean to think that.
Lost the gutted feeling of him being sacked when he oversaw our worst Premier League defeat
I think we'll know his fate in the next 4 matches. I have tiny pieces of hope that the returning players will push us into something that clicks, but if we're not really, really good he's toast.
Problem is, the most likely scenario is some wins some loses and I’m afraid we won’t know his fate so soon
Lock thread please
one result against the worst team in the league is enough for you to erase 18 months of terrible performance? I agree, it was a good game and if we continue like that against most of the teams we face, I would be happy to keep him. But he's got a long way to go to earn my support back.nothing to do with yesterday result, just another needless thread
It's not needless. It makes sense to have this thread to discuss alternatives to EtH. The alternative to this thread would be derailing the actual EtH thread all the time.
There‘s precious little discussion going on in the Ten Hag thread. It goes like this:
-Ten Hag is shit
-Last season he was shit, this season is better
-Ten Hag is still shit nothing changed
-We are a lot less shit than last year
-Ten Hag is shit
-Last season he was shit, this season is better
-Ten Hag is still shit nothing changed
-We are a lot less shit than last year
Yes, a treble winner isn't good enough for us. Philosopher Ten Hag fits our Disney World so much better. You see how things are going for Flick these days with Barcelona?
Usual shit for brains logic that if you have reservations about one manager it means you must love Ten Hag. Good stuff.