You haven’t really answered what I asked, which are very fair real world considerations. We aren’t running a simulation here, each season tanked costs us dearly. The window given to any manager in the real world tends to revolve around salvaging a season, or preventing a season from becoming unsalvageable. The knock on effect of a New Year sacking very likely carries over into the new season. That’s two campaigns for irreparable damage in one. That’s a terrible business model, which is why it’s far from commonplace in football, even amongst clubs lower on the totem, whilst at big clubs, it’s practically unheard of.
Life after ETH — the next United manager
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You are clutching. For all we know RVN was brought in so we have a contingency for an interim for when they do sack him. And it’s pretty clear that the INEOS approach is to buy players they see a future with whoever the manager is, instead of buying specific players for specific managers. That’s literally the whole point of the change in structure with a DoF etc. How did you miss that?
So no, those things are not evidence of them backing him. Them nearly sacking him though is very clear evidence that they aren’t fully backing him. If they were, they never would have been in discussions with potential replacements, would they?
My friend, it is you who are clutching and seemingly missing the point. I never said he was given his own signings, or its his own coaching staff (even though if I recall correctly, he wanted RvN initially before he settled for McClaren).
My point is that he has been given a new coaching support staff and he's been given 5 new players of which 4 are expected to be among the starting 10 outfield line-up.
Point being - he has been backed with a renewed structure both in backroom and on the pitch, which means they won't make a snap decision 3 games in before has settled.
And you seem to be assuming somewhat lazily that every public statement of backing is ominous before a sack. What you miss though is the quotes were not a press statement, but a proactive invitation to journalists before the Liverpool KO and a willingness from the side of INEOS to show conviction in their faith in Ten Hag.
Now, as mentioned already, last season means he's on very thin ice irrespective of the above. But they aren't going to be shitting the bed 3 games in like you seem to be claiming.
There are 8 games until November break. We could very well be far behind top 5 by then.
For what it’s worth I think we will exceed expectations and do well in the next 4. Expecting us to grab 4-5 points which will buy him time until next break.
Id go all in on Didier Deschamps.
You tried to use the arrival of new players and new coaching staff as evidence of him being backed. Those things are not evidence of him being backed. Ineos would have bought new players this summer no matter who the manager was. Ineos would have also brought in new staff and restructured key positions no matter who the manager was. How do you not understand this?
So no, those changes are not evidence of them backing him. They are evidence of Ineos taking control of footballing matters and restructuring that side of the club, as everyone knew they would. This has all been incredibly well documented. Look it up.
Your other claim which I’ve bolded is a strawman. I have never said every public statement of support by a club is ominous. I made the very specific point that recent public statements by Utd backing Ten Hag are fairly meaningless when you consider the fact that the very same club actively sounded out replacements. It’s abundantly clear to anyone that’s been paying attention that Ten Hag is still very much at risk of being sacked, despite those public statements. You can describe that as being “backed” if it makes you feel better. Everyone else seems to know what’s actually going on though.
The third bolded part is, once again, a strawman. I have never claimed they are shitting the bed after three games. Reread my posts - I specifically said they won’t sack him after three games. What I did say is that they have been flirting with the idea of sacking him since the end of the season. We know this to be true because otherwise they wouldn’t have contacted potential replacements.
So again, a club which has actively looked into replacing the manager is clearly not “backing” him in any meaningful sense. If results don’t improve very soon he will be sacked.
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I’m tired of watching France and I’m not even French. He’s a very successful manager but that man needs a break from football
Not sure whose worse.....the ABU media embroiled in a vicious and clearly sustained hate campaign against our manager or the so called Utd 'supporters' in this forum who appear to feast blindly on their agenda.
Joke of a thread.
Joke of a thread.
You have a problem with chronology. There's no denying they were flirting with sacking him, and there's no denying that he's since been supported after the decision to stick with him, renew his contract with a further year and provide him with support in the transfer window and through proper coaches. Youl honestly struggle to find a better illustration of backing a manager.
As for your statement point, you've fallen into the same trap again. United didn't release a statement so stop trying to paint it like one. It was an open interview that they volunteered to give before the kick off, where they took the opportunity to give further public conviction in their decision to keep the coach. Something they were never obligated to do.
My posts always said he was at risk of a sack. I don't actually know why you quoted me in the first place if you agree with this much.
Are the ABU media causing us to play poorly and lose games?
Do you honestly think Ineos wouldn’t have bought new players in no matter who the manager was? Do you honestly think Ineos wouldn’t have brought other new staff in no matter who the manager was? Your naivety appears to be endless.
Statement/interview, so what? Whatever form it came in, the public backing is still meaningless. Of course they aren’t going to publicly throw him under the bus prior to his sacking. He still remains very much at risk of being sacked. Wow, what backing!
No matter how many times you trot out the claim that the club is “backing” him simply because they’ve done things they would have done anyway, it remains a meaningless statement. Which is why I called you out for it.
I do think they would have bought these types in anyway. But that doesn't mean the manager wasn't backed. Do you know what backed means?
I think here lies your problem. You don't see the the difference between a generic statement and an invitation to bring journalists in and talk about backing the manager among other matters BEFORE the kick off of our biggest game of the season at OT. They were never under pressure to give that interview. It came from them and they invited journalists. You don't do things like this and you don't grant contract extensions if you haven't made a conscious decision to back him with a fair shake.
No, they wouldn't. But move on now, I don't even know what you had a problem with from my original post.
Yeah that's a very apt comparison
I wouldn't find anything comical about choosing not to expose the fans to more absolute pumpings at the hands of half decent teams including Liverpool.
Oh I think he's partly responsible for a lot of bad signings and for overtraining. But the main problem is that he doesn't have the right players for his system and that's something that takes time to fix.
Honestly don't care if we have to tread water for a season or three. We've been shite for a decade while the Glazers dangled new managers as distractions and it never did a bit of good. All their bad work takes some unpicking.
Correct. They decided to continue with him as manager and that planning will certainly not include sacking him in September because of two defeats.
You just can't make plans for a £5-10M coaching position over a couple games. I'd be fine with getting rid of him relatively quickly with no results, but he should have til October/November. If he was a game away from being fired it was ludicrous to give him a contract extension or let him hang around all off-season.
I do. And entering in to discussions with other candidates isn’t it. Buying some new players and bringing in some new staff doesn’t change that.
A key member of the new Ineos team was on a charm offensive with the media before our first huge home game!? Who ever would have guessed! It’s like you’re determined to one up each of your naive statements with an even more naive statement. It’s honestly impressive.
Since Ineos decided to sound out replacements Ten Hag has won one final, and then scraped three points from three league games. I don’t believe that in that time Ineos have gone from considering sacking him, to backing him. By far the most likely answer is that they are biding their time because they haven’t made their mind up on the manager situation yet. I don’t think describing Ten Hag as being “backed” by Ineos is a reasonable, rational or evidence based assessment of the current situation at Utd. That’s all.
No, the main problem is that his system doesn’t appear to be very good.
Ten Hag has shown very little to indicate he’s the right man to waste years on. And allowing him to do so is not unpicking the mess, it’s adding to it, whilst damaging us in all sorts of other ways in the mean time.
Logically I know you're absolutely right. Part of me just wants everyone put out of their misery before the season is another write off.
That's not to say a new manager comes in and gets the team flying either. But good God I would love to see the team actually creating chances and scoring a decent number of goals regularly again. Even looking like a semi functional football team for more than 10 minutes at a time would be a bonus.
Joke of a post
Again, you have a problem with the chronology. I never said he was backed from the get go. He was backed the minute they decided they didn't want to hire anyone else and start their new project with him as manager going into the window and new season.
As for the statement, literally no one does this
I don't think it's fair to say folk are feasting blindly on some agenda. The majority of people are just really unhappy with what they've seen on the pitch under the current manager, which is totally fair as aside from the odd game here and there it's been absolutely awful.
I personally could accept defeats fairly easily if it looked like we were attacking well and a bit loose at the back as a result, 'a work in progress' if you like. Or even if we weren't scoring so much but were really solid. The truth though is that we've looked really shoddy in every department for a really long time now, I think it's fair for folk to be angry about that.
Again, you have a problem with the chronology. I never said he was backed from the get go. He was backed the minute they decided they didn't want to hire anyone else and start their new project with him as manager going into the window and new season.
As for the statement, literally no one does this
No. We just disagree on what Ineos not sacking him back in May meant. You think it means they’ve actively decided to back him. I disagree with that and think the question of whether Ineos think he is the right man for the job or not remains very much open.
Well, it could be earlier as things stand.
Despite a poor start 10 Hag is backed fully by INEOS. The players are also behind him (Sancho has fecked off), there is no indication they are not working hard on the pitch or otherwise embroiled with him.
More staff appointed to help him. It won’t be long before the Ten Hag outters on here turn against INEOS.
More staff appointed to help him. It won’t be long before the Ten Hag outters on here turn against INEOS.
Remote control
Feck the ABU media for making us play without a midfield and spending a billion quid on Ajax players.
Nothing quite screams backing the manager than making offers to every available manager in Europe. I think people will be absolutely fine once Ten Hag deservedly gets the sack and stops running the club into the ground.
ETH underestimating the physicality of the league is a big reason for his struggles. I need the club to learn from its mistakes.
And will Ten Hag "inners" turn against INEOS if they sack him?
Exactly. Just because Ineos decided to go behind Ten Hag’s back to discuss giving his job to multiple other managers, massively undermining him in the process and leaving the Ten Hag sack race as the dominant topic of conversation for the start of the new league campaign, doesn’t mean they aren’t 100% sure he’s the right man for the job.
Its clear that this ship isn't turning around, he is too stubborn to think of anything new. It's also clear that even Ugarte could struggle to do what's being asked of Casemiro. The longer ETH stays the more damage he will inflict but we have a management worried more by optics than conviction.
The fact that we are now past the international break and into another match week means that he isn't being sacked so the 'only 3 games' point is now moot. He will manage another tranche of games but he needs a way shorter leash than the new year @glazed is intent on granting him.
Only one player has played the particular style and did it one season in his career. Yoro and Zirkee are mouldable young players whilst Ugarte is an established international who can suit many styles.
The coaching appointments could be interpreted as the club planning ahead to ensure they have experienced heads and promising coaching talent in place should they need an immediate replacement, the hype around Ruud certainly points to that.
This. It's nonsensical to allow Ten Hag to drag the club downwards beyond the November window. The, 'it's only 3 games' excuse doesn't hold water because we have evidence of him messing up for far longer. If he can't do well in the next 8 games he's got to go.
Yeah if they fail to act on a failed manager clearly holding the club back we will hold them accountable.
I think the system/idea is good but the execution/coaching is not good enough. It was reported that Ten Hag wants to play like Klopp. I do think the system can work with little bit of tweaks. Whether he can do it to make it work, that is another story.
I've got eyes mate, I can see what's happening on the pitch. I can see how clueless ETH is and the absolute dross he's served up these past 3 seasons.
Are you sure hehe? If we were, we wouldn’t win all these trophies like we did. I feel sorry for your opinion.
Stand by your manager!!!
I swear we could have another two full horrible seasons and still keep hearing the exact same arguments. "Let's give him until new year at least". And when the time comes we know what happens. It never ends, never enough, always someone else's fault. Apparently our main problem is that "we don't have the players to play EtH's system". Such an insane idea on so many levels. Let's gamble on club's future by brining in exact players that this manager wants to play this system that has yet to prove it works at all against any opposition. Let's also persist with it eventhough we don't have players for it. It just makes sense to write off seasons until this masterplan comes together one day. Just have faith, it will happen.
Who is saying that? Literally nobody.
The players we bought are great for 10Hag ball, and for the next manager as well.
So it’s literally his system, and two years in even he hasn’t yet figured out how to coach it or execute it effectively, and it still needs to be changed to make it work.
Yep, still doesn’t sound like a good system system to me.
who said this?