Backs to the the wall counter attack is the plan?
Life after ETH — the next United manager
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Backs to the the wall counter attack is the plan?
I think you’re trolling or you need help.
To be fair it was a bit more than that. But not much more than that. There is a difference between counter and fast transition I guess, to do with pressing and ball retention, which is where we are still bad.
Typical caf response. Exactly the kind of poster who will be singing ETH's praise if he puts together a good run. I'm not saying this will happen but I'm happy to give it till xmas to come good. I don't think we're as far off as you think.
Now that’s a typical cafe response.
There was a moment in time, quite a while ago now, where I found things promising under Ten Hag. Watching them struggle against almost anyone and everyone over the past year or so has entirely erased that hope. We almost exclusively play terribly chaotic yet simultaneously uninspiring and frustating football. Conceding the same old soft goals at important times is a far more common occurence than us playing any sustained periods of fluid, cohesive and exciting attacking football. Ultimately, Ten Hag looks thoroughly out of his depth, trotting out the same old excuses.
I’ve never heard of other managers having such a uniquely difficult to implement style that lots of different elements have to somehow just magically click one day after several seasons and £600 million spent in order for the “system” to even work at a level where it consistently gets convincing wins against mid to lower table PL teams. He’ll be gone by Christmas and we’ll be better for it the second he’s out the door.
The FA Cup final was not a counterattacking performance. It was a game in which we actually managed to dominate the best team in England, led by the best manager in English football. We weren’t the best in the second half, but still, only a biased hater would say that we didn’t deserve to win that game. Ten Hag, to his credit, actually switched up his tactics and we managed to outperform the then treble holders. Mártinez and Varane had Haaland in their pocket, and fecking Amabrat did well in midfield.
I mean you're not wrong. But usually the goals have come because Maguire/Lindelof/Evans/Casemiro have been too slow and clumsy and out of position or some winger couldn't be arsed to track back. These are things that can be fixed. None of those players will be first choice come October barring injury.
There is a decent chance he will turn this around. There is also a decent chance he won't. I hope he does because the real problem here is years of Glazer decay. But you can't see that on a TV screen.
It’s literally his job to fix them! And he hasn’t. That’s the fecking point. A manager’s job is to manage, and that includes managing our squad and our tactics around injuries, and around known weaknesses of players, both of which are an inevitable part of the game. Other managers manage it. Why can’t he?
If he is selecting those players then it is his job to set the team up in a way that exacerbates their strengths and mitigates their weaknesses, not the other way around. Instead his tactical failings leave players exposed, ready to be scapegoated as we throw away points and games in the same manner again and again and again. And we hardly ever even see any attacking benefit from this - it’s not like we’ve been dropping silly points despite being a dangerous attacking force. We have been simultaneously dysfunctional in defence and midfield whilst being largely clueless and toothless in attack, except for the odd bits of individual brilliance.
So no, there’s not a “decent” chance he will turn it around. Based on the evidence on the pitch there is a very slim chance he will turn it around. Good managers make their teams greater than the sum of their parts, whereas he seems to do the opposite. And blaming Ten Hag’s very obvious and numerous failings as a manager on the glazers is a weak cop out. It’s beyond time he takes some responsibility as well.
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It helps that Pep usually makes his players better as opposed to making them worse like ten Hag casually does.
Most of City players would be deadwood by now if they were playing for us, and we would be here debating how ETH cannot play football with Akanji, Ake, Doku etc.
Just give the job to Ruben Amorim already.
He is off to a perfect start at Sporting this season.
He is off to a perfect start at Sporting this season.
He would probably be fourth on my priority list but actually attainable compared to top 3
I don't know who fits the bill but please let us play some attractive if not downright exciting football. In the years since Fergie left, even when results have been good, the performances in general have still been pretty poor.
Klopp had a hair transplant? He really cares about his looks, does he?
I don’t think you ever can with Rashford an out of form Bruno and the soft underbelly we always seem to have once a team pressures us. If we sat back a bit more and tried to counter or went 5 at the back or anything to tighten up till the players get confidence fitness and chemistry he might just save his job. I definitely think the new signings are a step in the right direction but it’s up to the manager to make the big calls and sit Rashford Bruno Casemiro or Manioo and those kinds of names out for a few games here and there. He won’t though and I think he’s going to lose his job before Xmas. This is already scarily like last season unfortunately but INEOS won’t wait around with their massive investment. They will demand momentum soon and if he gets sacked he can’t say it wasn’t coming. I want him and his coaches to succeed but it’s currently looking grim.
We need a manager who truly understand the epl. Hence I say the likes of emery or at least alonso
Luring Alonso away from waiting it out for the Real job is going to take some pitch from INEOS
Whoever comes next should understand the EPL's unique characteristics. We can't keep on bringing in the next flavour of the month only for the guy to see his reliable tactics built throughout years playing against rio ave, brann, Augsburg and go ahead eagles crumble. We had too many people learning on the job
very unlikely given Alonso's tie with Liverpool (I know Busby played for Liverpool and City, but things were different back in the 40s)
Still think we could but only if INEOS make it sound like a very attractive project
He won the FA cup with Manchesthair United but he's bald and herein lies the problem. The mismatch is so deeply rooted that things won't improve until you change the fundamental, not just scalping the smaller issues.
Who is your top 3 mate?
There’s the key. However this was an exception. Chaos ball, hot potato ball, whatever you want to call it hasn’t worked and on the whole he hasn’t tried anything else.
Ugarte has great numbers for ball retention..
I'd argue that from a general performance perspective we haven't gone toe to toe vs a pep city in the way we have in the FA Cup final and Charity Shield under previous managers. Whilst we haven't so far matched their possession or had higher possession, we have been far more aggressive and positive against them, with the FA cup and Charity Shield (despite the loss) probably being the best we have played against a Pep city team.
That doesn't negate the poor performances through last season, however, it is one of the weird things with EtH where we have had a lot of poor results, whilst also through the 2 seasons having some very good performances vs the top teams (and a few absolute spankings). The question with EtH is when the team is firing, fit and confident its clear they can go toe to toe in a one off game with any team and he can win trophies (minor ones), but can that same style/tactics rack enough wins to challenge for a league. At the moment it looks like when there are injuries, low in confidence the tactics fall apart and there isn't really a base to fall back on due to the tactics being so aggressive. What I am not sure on is whether that is a squad depth issue or just a flaw in his tactics that there is no safe base the team can fall back on when they are low in confidence etc.
I would still take Ten hag over a Jose or Ole. The other question is is there an outstanding manager out there that we could get to replace Ten Hag if come December its clear he isn't going to work out here.
Interim Sir Alex Ferguson would blow the absolute roof off Old Trafford (figuratively, altho the building might crumble from all the noise in the stadium)
I enjoyed this match at the Ethiad most of all in recent memory, https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/56227458
That was a good performance tbf (maybe Ole's best?), but was also what felt like a bit of a dead rubber. LVG also had a very dominant win at Anfield (although I don't think Pool were what they are now).
It‘s true that Ten Hag‘s tactical requirements have left a number of players ruthlessly exposed.
They were exposed physically, technically and mentally.
The fault lies more with the club over the last 15 years than with a manager trying to implement an up-to-date playing style.
Change is needed to get to the top and it has been painful. I do hope we are through the worst of it.
10Hag clobbered Amorim twice in 2021. 4-2 and 1-5.
Because other clubs aren't rebuilding from the basement up after being absolutely wrecked by the Glazers. In that context eighth was fine. Yes he could have played to the strengths of the squad, but then we'd still be playing shite Oleball and the players we need would not come or would not develop if they did.
I'd argue that the development of players like Dalot and Mainoo show that ETH can be a very good coach. There are counter examples to be sure. But I'm not sure any coach could give Antony two good feet, Casemiro fully functioning leg muscles or Sancho a good attitude.
I think the sensible non-caf consensus is that he deserves the next three months clear to show us what he's got once and for all. If he still can't deliver then we switch styles to a more conservative Pepball and he's done. A lot rests on Ugarte and whether he can pass as well as he can tackle, and if he can stay on the pitch. 50/50
Yeah I agree with you.
Unfortunately the majority of fans and even posters on here are sheep that believe what the tabloids, Sky or Talk sport lead them to believe.
It's a constant headache trying to be an objective fan and call a spade a spade. Ten Hag has many qualities and that's why INEOS kept him. He just has to keep proving he can deliver with a now improving starting lineup.
We will sign the players we need to complete the squad in January and next summer. His job is to show enough with the current squad that he deserves to be the manager that benefits and should lead the completed squad.
3 games in fans are panicking, despite Yoro, Hojlund and Ugarte not playing a minute. A fans brain must be a bag of spanners if they're panicking already. INEOS will atleast give him September and October to prove we're making the strides needed to prove he's the guy for us going forwards.
If he's not showing it then we'll no doubt appoint a new manager in November so he can work with the squad ahead of the January window where the squad might need one or two to bolster it in the search for a top 4 finish to salvage the season.
Panic isn't for now, it's for November if he doesn't get us playing well consistently.
If you think football fans are smart you really haven't been paying attention.
Panicking about what? What are you talking about?
Another one that needs reminding that it's 100+ games we've seen this dross, not 3.
I’ve never in my life seen so many people doing this weird mind game of acting like a fella is 3 games into a job when he’s been here two years. I get the ineos reset idea, but it seems wildly forgiving and disingenuous to act like people are being unreasonable expecting more at this point in his time here.
You say this but the managers that have the most success in the PL are Italians and Portuguese blokes. It's not really about understanding the PL, although there is an element of that, we saw managers like Pep and Klopp have to adapt when they first came, but the red thread between managers that do well in the PL and those that don't is that they're good fecking managers who know how to get the best out of their players and their in game management/people skills are excellent.
These are the people who said they want to see Ten Hag under the 'new structure'. It was obvious they didn't understand what they were talking about last season and they were just throwing out buzzwords they'd heard in the media. They would gladly give him 10 years in the job and see us cycle through 2 whole squads, and even then they'd blame someone else for the mess. I think it's systemic at this point, some just don't want to move on from the stability that Fergie brought for 26 years. They have this faith, and it is faith, not hope, because there is no actual evidence, that the manager will become world class if he's just allowed to do whatever the feck he wants without question or scrutiny.
Nobody wants to give him ten years. Let's just give him till the new year and if we're still not seeing progress than bon voyage.
He actually brought a lot of the players he then proceeded to expose, which is funny.
Manager's job is to adapt tactics to the players he has available, not ask them to play a style very few players are capable of playing.
Good job improving Dalot, out of a squad of 30+ players he's worked with we can name one that is better now than he was at the start, second one being a youngster who has only recently broken through.
These individual errors happen to all teams though. You're not going to get an immaculate performance from all your players every week.
The difference is you'll either have enough players left in decent positions to deal with the turnover, or you make up for it by creating enough yourself to score enough goals to outweigh the ones you lose, especially from individual errors.
The majority of teams press now to force the likelihood of individual errors and create turnovers to spring attacks, that's transition football.
Under Ten Hag we talk about that but aren't anywhere near executing the fundamentals well, which is a bit scary going into a third season under him.
Even on the occasions we get the press right, we often give the ball straight back to the opposition, it's horrible to watch. Liverpool absolutely destroyed us using the tactics we're meant to be playing during the last game at Old Trafford.
The manager has to go, he's not going to get it right if it still looks so incohesive at this point.