Life after ETH — the next United manager
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It isn't just that we are too open without the ball, it's that we don't know what to do with it. Ten Hag has instructed the likes of Casemiro and Fernandes to lump it forward as soon as they receive the ball, there are no patterns of play and there is no build up.
People used to hammer Ole Gunnar Solskjaer for being a 'vibes' manager. What we're seeing now is the true representation of that sentiment.
Ten Hag has been given all the tools to play any way he wants. We've made 15 permanent signings under his management to the tune of almost £600m in just over 2 years. That's more than enough time and financial backing to see some progress by now.
We actually showed signs of developing as a possession team for a month or so in his first season before the World Cup but he abandoned that idea in favour of becoming more defensive and pragmatic.
Since he tried to turn us into a counter-pressing side, we're yet to see any evidence of him making that work. We have been horrible to watch since day one of last season and still don't look any closer to being a cohesive team now than we did then. I'm astounded we still haven't cut our losses, he should've been sacked in September of last year.
There is no evidence INEOS wants to implement a ‚possession style‘ game model. What we are seeing is what they want. Performed better, of course.
I think we have seen some progress. The cup final is a good example. But really it only works when every player is on it. Just takes one person to disrupt the ecology he's going for. So in an injury raddled season it needs 22 players who are good in their positions. No Evans, no Maguire, no Lindelof, no Casemiro, no McT, no Antony. And getting rid of the dead wood and bad signings of the Glazer years has been very slow. It was only two seasons ago we were signing Casemiro. This is the first INEOS transfer window.
And yes ETH has some responsibility for a few of those bad transfers. But ultimately the Glazers were why it happened. It seems much more professional now.
There is some evidence they are losing faith in ETH's aggressive fast transition idea and might prefer the City/Arsenal model of more possession and slower build up. If they sack him at Xmas (which is 50/50) then I think this is where they will go.
It will be Louis van Gaal‘s second season all over again.
We are absolutely stuck with gegenpressing or counter football, unless we replace many players.
ETH's aim is a bit of both. I like the idea a lot. It needs the right players to make it work but we're not a million miles away if we can just improve our injury record and get it to click. There's a decent chance ETH will be a football genius come March and all the caf knuckle draggers will look stupid. There's also a decent chance he will get sacked.
There really isn't.
Let's see how Ipswich do in the Premier League this season. If there are promising signs (despite bad results), we should consider McKenna again. He was at the club for more than 5 years so obviously knows the club and back-to-back promotions with Ipswich were great stuff.
Don't think this is true, of all our players the only one who is made for gegenpressing is Mount whilst it's only Rashford who thrives in transition football because Bruno is a starter for Portugal and for them he is quite reserved as a passer. It's just a matter of instructions, Rashford came up under LVG and if his United career depended on it he can play possession football.
ETH is playing this way because he wants to not because he has tried all else and faced resistance. It's his choice.
I don't think we have the midfield for the style he is trying to implement; high energy, press resistant midfielders who can nail mid and high range passes. Where it also fails is that it's too individualistic upfront and doesn't call for link up play to open team resulting in forwards having to perform miracles on each and every move.
At the end of the day it's too demanding to be successful at this level because you pretty much need a perfect eleven to implement it because the one thing his style does is to expose any weakness in his players.
This style isn't the style of a "genius". It's the style of a gambler, relying on individual talents to exploit a stretched and chaotic game plan. There's no control over games, and you can't control games like this. Even Klopp realised this when he was producing a much better version of what Ten Hag is trying to do.
Not really realistic.
Alonso will never come to United, he will go to Bayern, Liverpool or Madrid when he gets a chance in the future. Maybe succeed Ancelotti. Untill that he will just stay at Leverkusen to wait for them.
Ancelotti said multiple times Madrid is his last club, he even rejected Brazil for them. He will never come to United.
Nagelsmann won’t leave Germany before the world cup, and I think we will need a new manager much sooner than that.
I agree. Southgate might be our next manager.
- Not bald
Hey also released a video yesterday (I think) under The Athletic feed where they broke down the Liverpool game and state that the pressing approach from Utd in that game wasn't stylistically that different from Liverpool, but smaller on field errors led to bigger issues in transition. Particularly they highlighted a play where the press funnelled the ball into McAllister but Casemiro didn't pressure him so he was allowed to turn with the ball and progress it.
I struggle to keep up with discussions around pressing schemes TBH, but I found it quite interesting to watch to try and understand what Utd are doing out of possession.
Yeah the timing with Nagelsmann isn't right which is very frustrating because feel he could be good fit
That's what all the reports said towards the end of last season, that he had until he end of the season to implement it. I'd be shocked if they came and and Ten Hag was delivering what they wanted already, a style that practically no other top team uses.
But we’ll need a new manager way before Madrid, Bayern and Liverpool. If will be a test of his loyalty. How loyal is he to Liverpool? He rejected them in the summer as he was their first choice until they got Arne. He also had a chance to go to Bayern as they was after a manager and settled with Kompany. So maybe he’s waiting for the Madrid job. Who knows. But we’re the biggest job in Europe. No ones got it right yet and that’s temptation for any manager in Europe.
I reckon they do want a possession based style. We’ve had more possession than our opponents in the first 3 games. How many times have we ever had more possession against Brighton and Liverpool before INEOS arrived?
Yeah we need to find that deep lying playmaker in the mould of De Jong to play it effectively
I reckon another “Alonso” will emerge this season. And hopefully this one isn’t ex-Liverpool scum
None of this is wrong. But if he gets there it could be amazing. I give it 50/50
City and Arsenal are boring to be honest.
100%. But that’s why I think our style of play is being questioned. No one knows what it is because we haven’t seen it on the pitch but also we’ve targeted completely different players to the one you’ve mentioned. We signed Casemiro and Ugarte who are both mainly known as ball winners and a destroyer type.
Zubimendi is more in that style, however feel his stats might not be elite enough for our data guys
I Agree 200%.
So who are the viable candidates?
Not in jobs
Not in jobs
- Tuchel
- Xavi
- Potter
- Southgate (shudders)
- Amourim
- McKenna
- Carrick
The only truly successful bald managers in the last 20 years have been Pep and Zidane. The rest of the top tier have had hair. I would say we’re better off avoiding the bald managers going forward.
Exactly. If anything, Pep and Zidane are the exceptions proving the rule that great managers have hair. No coincidence Klopp relegated Mainz and then had hair transplant before taking over Dortmund.
And Tuchel's comb-over should be a warning sign.
Please put the crack pipe down and go seek help
You enjoy watching City?
Not hugely but I definitely don’t enjoy watching us.
EtH’a approach of ‘it’ll work perfectly once in a billion times’ is suicidal. I couldn’t care less if the one time it does we suddenly excite the pants off everyone because it’s such an impossibly narrow window to work that it’s simply not feasible and we look like idiots every game it doesn’t.
We've never seen any glimpses of amazing football so what are you basing this idea on?
You couldn't point to a single game and say "that's what it looks like when it (what ever this is) works".
I've got a horrible feeling it will be Southgate.
I fecking hope not. I pray to every deity that it’s not him.
Me too.
I’m not sure which one is the better parody post. The tenpoless Lampard one or your Ten Hag only needs 22 players who are all great who always do exactly the right thing on the pitch at the right time with zero under performers or bad signings and fewer injuries so Ten Hag’s secretly genius tactical approach suddenly clicks and we become amazing despite the fact that we’ve barely played any good football or seen any progress under him for two seasons now.
I think the tenpolessw one has the edge because at least it’s a little more believable.
Is glazed the new Sarni?
Yes I think that covers it. Isn't that what Pep gets at City?