Let's goooooooooooo.
John Stones
- Thread starter ottosec
- Start date
Let's goooooooooooo.
Yes fecking please
We won't sell any first team players in January.
Everton are unlikely to keep him for a long time.
It comes down to what Everton's ambitions for this season are.. I don't think they can push for the top 4 despite most top teams being really shit.
It'll cost a lot, but they might be open to the idea of letting him go in Jan.
He'll start here. We'll pay him a crazy amount. We'll pay Everton a crazy amount.
No reason why it cant happen.... unless he wants to go to London
It comes down to what Everton's ambitions for this season are.. I don't think they can push for the top 4 despite most top teams being really shit.
It'll cost a lot, but they might be open to the idea of letting him go in Jan.
He'll start here. We'll pay him a crazy amount. We'll pay Everton a crazy amount.
No reason why it cant happen.... unless he wants to go to London
After Everton rejected his transfer request in the summer, did he sign a new contract? I remember reading that there was to be "talks" but can't remember reading that he'd signed anything.
Now that would be a cracking signing for all concerned. We get the most promising young centre back in the country and he gets to play every week alongside his national team partner for the next 7 or 8 years.
Dreaming but De Gea, Smalling, Stones and Shaw!
I'm happy with jones at right back of Shaw is available in that scenario.
They won't let him go in January. Stones is too important of a player, and Everton won't be bullied into selling their best assets at inopportune times. Boufhafsi tweeting about our interest probably means we'll wait until they are willing to sell. Apparently rejected a £37 million bid from Chelsea last summer, didn't budge even after he handed in a transfer request; and depending on his European Championship performances for England (provided he starts) - the asking prince could reach ~£45 million come next season. If we need a January fix to shore up the defense, Laporte might be the more realistic option. Not too different qualitatively, but there too you're dealing with Athletic Club - who can complicate things even if you match the player's clause.
Yup, got to agree, when you add to the fact that Martinez is simply inept in defensive setup Stones seems to be their cornerstone.
Stones - Smalling would be an absolutely marvellous partnership for the next 6 years.
I'd happily offer £40m + Phil Jones.
I'd happily offer £40m + Phil Jones.
I would love to see us go after stones, but surely also keeping Jones would be ideal?
Jones could go either way at this stage. Do we want to persist with a player that has shown glimpses of both good and bad and keeps getting plagued by injuries? Stones looks like a far more sure fire success than Jones does and the prospect of him and Smalling together is pretty mouth watering. I'd still like to think Jones will make it here, but we're saying the same things about him now that we were 2/3 years ago.
I still don't think he's actually that good at actually defending. He gets beaten in one-on-one scenarios fairly easily.
Very easy to forget that he is 21 though. It's something he will improve on and he'd be playing next to and learning from someone who is probably the best defender in the league in that situation right now.
Jones is still jones is still worth 12-15m. That's a ridiculous price for Stones. £40m is about right.
Cheslesa have turned to shit at the wrong time for them. If they played as they should they would be front runners for Stones and Isco IMO, Jose being there was the biggest reason why people labeled them favourites to sign Varane.
Not that I feel sorry for them
Not that I feel sorry for them
There is no way Everton sell for 40m. It will be closer to 50m in the summer and maybe even more in January, if they would be willing to sell him at all.
Of course, but is his ball playing abilities at such a level that he merits a £40-45m fee? I'm all for having the best English talents we can get (I really hoped we could get Sterling last summer, for example) but I still just don't see the 'Rolls-Royce' ability people stick on Stones that Ferdinand had. He's nothing amazing physically, either. There is talent and a lot of potential but I'm really yet to be convinced he can be the real deal, really. Strong technical attributes will get you so far.
With the amount that athletico would demand for laporte we may as well just go all in for stones.
He would cost 42m€.
Stones would be around the same amount I think? We should just go for him.
We are overpaying now for not buying a CB this summer as we should have.
No, Stones will cost 42m£ and a bigger wage.
Negotiations for Laporte will be pretty straightforward, whereas with Stones - firstly, Everton won't sell right now; and in the summer - they will drag things out to extract the maximum out of his market value (maybe get City involved aswell - they need a centerback and Stones would be perfect for Guardiola's defense). Once that happens, there's no upper limit on his value - it could even go beyond £50 million because then it becomes an arms race where both clubs will try to outdo each other - which will suit Everton because more competition = more money.
Aymeric has a fixed £34 million buyout clause, and we have some experience dealing with Athletic Club after the Ander transactions. If we decide to buy him in this window, we can do that by paying his clause in the coming week. That way Athletic Club will have some time to sort out a Basque replacement, and no one's too unhappy. Even Laporte won't be opposed to a January move because he's not in the frame for a Euro 2016 role for France. Minimum hassle involved, provided we do things the right way.
There are a fair few pros in Laporte's favor as things stand:
We can sign him before Stones, maybe even in this window.
We won't have to pay as much as we would for Stones.
We won't waste months negotiating with Kenwright, there's no guarantee he'd join United either.
In terms of overall talent, Laporte and Stones are in the same class - and Laporte is ahead of Stones right now from a purely defensive standpoint.
Left footed.
Lower wages - Woody harps on this particular aspect a lot - and it makes sense over the long haul. Laporte will earn maybe 60% of what Stones will earn because his base salary at Athletic Club is very low.
Everton won't sell in January, ewe should have targeted him in the summer but of course we had our hearts set on someone who was using us to get a new contract.
Everton would be crazy not to sell for 50 million.
Would love him here, pay whatever it takes. Smalling Stones for United and England
Those are all great points....in that case Ed should just release clause Laporte right out of athletico....but our club almost specializes in not fixing the obvious.
And why exactly would Everton sell in Jan after resisting all summer?
They won't, But don't kill out vibe dude!
This. He will be at least £50m. Rightly so, consider his talent and age.
Why would they?
Absolute super talent. 21 years old. They don't need the money.
What exactly could they do with that £50m?
Buy two £25 my defenders from abroad.
Big transfers have a 50/50 success rate historically.
Replace him with a 20 million centre back and a 30 million left midfielder and we would be in a better position.
Yep, that would be the most obvious thing to do. FWIW I like Stones more because he is a better distributor from the back, and once he irons out some of his youthful defensive flaws/ mental lapses with experience, he has the potential to become - if not as good as Rio, then maybe a slightly weaker version in his prime. Plus, he's English which should always count for something since United is an English club - with Smalling and Shaw already earmarked as defensive cornerstones. But Laporte is the more pragmatic option, and in terms of potential he's as good as Stones and was already one of the best defenders in La Liga at age 20 - with the likes of Godin and Ramos.
When you add the ease with which he could be acquired relative to Stones, and the fact that he has a predetermined clause - the choice between the two becomes rather straightforward at a time where we need reinforcements sharpish - not just in attack, but in defense too where we need to add numbers, on top of quality. If we get Laporte in January, even if he doesn't start over Blind, he would have time to develop in a new league and maybe step in when we have injuries - which will help him progress at United.
In the summer too, he won't go to the European Championship, so he'll be ready for pre-season training. With Stones, the transfer will definitely get dragged into late August - which means he'll be thrown into the deep end without developing any chemistry with his team-mates or having a proper pre-season to get used to United and the manager's system. Also, just to add another pro in Laporte's favor - he is represented by Jorge Mendes who reportedly had a good working relationship with Ed. So he'll help smooth the deal over while negotiating with Athletic Club, or personal details for the player.
I don't see what is the point on that. He is injured most of the time, and extremely average when he isn't injured.
I haven't ever seen anything special on him, to be fair. I remember debating with you in Fergie's last (or was it penultimate season) about Jones, and still have the same opinion. He just isn't that good. And while he might have been useful as a squad player, it is pointless to count on him when he is injured most of the time.
I think that he should get the Rafael treatment. Especially if Everton would like him to replace Stones, then selling him to Everton, and getting Stones from them would be a good business. I also think that they would prefer it instead of just selling Stones.
Very debatable. I think that Laporte's distribution is top notch, and he would be ideal for Van Gaal's left CB position.
What Stones has over him is that Stones is English and so won't need to adapt to the league.
Either way, I think that we should hurry up cause I can see both City and Chelsea going for Stones, and Barca going for Laporte.
Smalling, Stones and Shaw
Don't drool over Stones until we see if Everton can beat Spurs this afternoon or they do their usual capitulation.Smalling, Stones and Shaw
IMO (might be wrong), it's not debatable mate - this is one aspect where Stones is much superior - bordering on exceptional. Laporte is probably the more rounded defender of the two right now; and a good passer for the most part; but he has a propensity to panic on the ball when pressed high, and even though he is good at bringing the ball out from the back - his distribution and choice of passes is quite inconsistent. He can look good when he has space and time to think with serenity, but once you close him down, he goes turtle mode quite frequently - and dumps it to people (mostly Balenziaga, Iturraspe, Beñat) than try to navigate out of traffic.
Stones is much better builder from the back, and more consistent when it comes to picking out passes for his midfielders/ forwards; he's more mobile, and almost never loses his cool - which is a rather special quality in a ball-playing defender because even though he'll make errors from time to time (like young Ramos or Piqué), he's fearless and won't dwell on the mistake for too long. When he's pressed, he doesn't panic and always tries to make space for himself by a deft touch than just pass it to the nearest player (which can halt the momentum of the buildup).
Maybe it's a confidence thing with Laporte too, and it's mostly in his head; but he's distinctly weaker in this area than Stones - not just in terms of technique, but mental capacity and comfort on the ball. Then again, it's purely about degrees of aptitude - if we grade them on a scale. Laporte is quite proficient, but Stones is just majestic when it comes to distribution from the back and ease on the ball.
And yeah, totally agree with the last part, we need to sign one of these two because they're among the best young options on the market, and that might mean 3 positions in the back 4 sorted for the medium to long term depending on Darmian's development. If he doesn't improve, maybe we should sign Cancelo too, and really lay the foundations for an excellent young defense.