Didn't Laporte have one of the top/maybe top figures for intercepting the ball last season?IMO (might be wrong), it's not debatable mate - this is one aspect where Stones is much superior - bordering on exceptional. Laporte is probably the more rounded defender of the two right now; and a good passer for the most part; but he has a propensity to panic on the ball when pressed high, and even though he is good at bringing the ball out from the back - his distribution and choice of passes is quite inconsistent. He can look good when he has space and time to think with serenity, but once you close him down, he goes turtle mode quite frequently - and dumps it to people (mostly Balenziaga, Iturraspe, Beñat) than try to navigate out of traffic.
Stones is much better builder from the back, and more consistent when it comes to picking out passes for his midfielders/ forwards; he's more mobile, and almost never loses his cool - which is a rather special quality in a ball-playing defender because even though he'll make errors from time to time (like young Ramos or Piqué), he's fearless and won't dwell on the mistake for too long. When he's pressed, he doesn't panic and always tries to make space for himself by a deft touch than just pass it to the nearest player (which can halt the momentum of the buildup).
Maybe it's a confidence thing with Laporte too, and it's mostly in his head; but he's distinctly weaker in this area than Stones - not just in terms of technique, but mental capacity and comfort on the ball. Then again, it's purely about degrees of aptitude - if we grade them on a scale. Laporte is quite proficient, but Stones is just majestic when it comes to distribution from the back and ease on the ball.
And yeah, totally agree with the last part, we need to sign one of these two because they're among the best young options on the market, and that might mean 3 positions in the back 4 sorted for the medium to long term depending on Darmian's development. If he doesn't improve, maybe we should sign Cancelo too, and really lay the foundations for an excellent young defense.
John Stones
- Thread starter ottosec
- Start date
Yep, he's very good from a purely defensive standpoint; and reads the game well for his age. Dunno the exact figure, but it was something like 3+ interceptions per game last season. Could develop into a rock solid Godin type defender.
Stones is young and learning and he has quality no doubt but I'd rather see us sign a bit experience like Hummels. As I feel that's what we need at the back. Although Stones would be a good buy too Hummels is our man.
Shaw Small StonesSmalling, Stones and Shaw
Thanks for the explanation. I have seen plenty of them, but nowhere near much as you. I always had the impression that Laporte is very good in the ball, which you also agree. Maybe I haven't seen enough of Stones (how would you compare him in that aspect with Pique, Hummels and Ramos?).IMO (might be wrong), it's not debatable mate - this is one aspect where Stones is much superior - bordering on exceptional. Laporte is probably the more rounded defender of the two right now; and a good passer for the most part; but he has a propensity to panic on the ball when pressed high, and even though he is good at bringing the ball out from the back - his distribution and choice of passes is quite inconsistent. He can look good when he has space and time to think with serenity, but once you close him down, he goes turtle mode quite frequently - and dumps it to people (mostly Balenziaga, Iturraspe, Beñat) than try to navigate out of traffic.
Stones is much better builder from the back, and more consistent when it comes to picking out passes for his midfielders/ forwards; he's more mobile, and almost never loses his cool - which is a rather special quality in a ball-playing defender because even though he'll make errors from time to time (like young Ramos or Piqué), he's fearless and won't dwell on the mistake for too long. When he's pressed, he doesn't panic and always tries to make space for himself by a deft touch than just pass it to the nearest player (which can halt the momentum of the buildup).
Maybe it's a confidence thing with Laporte too, and it's mostly in his head; but he's distinctly weaker in this area than Stones - not just in terms of technique, but mental capacity and comfort on the ball. Then again, it's purely about degrees of aptitude - if we grade them on a scale. Laporte is quite proficient, but Stones is just majestic when it comes to distribution from the back and ease on the ball.
And yeah, totally agree with the last part, we need to sign one of these two because they're among the best young options on the market, and that might mean 3 positions in the back 4 sorted for the medium to long term depending on Darmian's development. If he doesn't improve, maybe we should sign Cancelo too, and really lay the foundations for an excellent young defense.
Not for me, whilst I'd be over the moon with Hummels, I'd always prefer the best young English talent. There is less chance he'd want to up and leave after four or five years.
The problem with Hummels is that he is very injury prone. He played only 27 times last season, and 34 the season before (on both season he played 23 times in the league, which is just 2/3 of the available matches). This season he has played 15 times, with 9 of those apperances being in the league (only half of available matches).
With both Stones and Laporte being 5 years younger than him, I think that we should go for one of them instead. In addition, it seems very likely that he will do a Totti/Gerrard and stay in his club for life, even though he might have better offers.
I can't argue with that but I think Hummels experience would be a bigger plus in the next 3-4 years. Wouldn't be disappointed with Stones far from it but we have been here with Jones and not everyone turns into a Rio. Hummels is already top class and would add so much more at this stage. Stones ceiling is huge though so I see what you are saying.
Yep that certainly is a problem that should be considered. Just think we need that kind of leadership and experience in the team.
Hard to judge him vs Ramos and Piqué yet because they're the gold standards, and he's just starting out. But Stones is the best English central defender I've seen when it comes to ease on the ball, composure and passing from the back (apart from maybe peak Rio Ferdinand - though he too would shank up forwards at times). He makes some errors from time to time; but a fully developed Stones could be as good, or maybe even better than peak Hummels IMO, because he always seems in control when he's on the ball, and is quite accomplished already. Plus he's a better athlete, and faster than Hummels who is criticized for his relative lack of pace.
eg. Youtube videos don't say much, but his performance vs Chelsea was really good. If you skip to 2:47, this is the type of thing that sets him apart. Most central defenders would immediately pass it back to the keeper (one of McCarthy or Barry is pointing it out too), or punt it forwards in a hurry than make something positive happen.
I don't like that performance against Chelsea very much. He picks a few really nice passes but puts himself unnecessarily into a lot of sticky situations. His 2:47 run was going nowhere, he's lucky that Chelsea defended badly, he won't be allowed to do that in bigger clubs.
they defended badly....well, thats how most attacking players defend. He was under pressure the second he got the ball and he had 2 options, pass it back to the gk which would result with a long kick or pass it long himself. Instead he makes a great run and eliminates 4 chelsea players fom the game.
As for the second part, what clubs do you mean? The big clubs that i watch on a constant basis are City, United and Barcelona, all 3 allow their defenders to push up with the ball. Kompany for Man City, Smalling and Blind for United and Pique for Barca.
All of the elite clubs specifically look for centre backs who are comfortable bringing the ball out of defence and good under pressure. It's one of the major reasons so many elite clubs are looking at him.
The pressure was nothing special, he will barely ever get easier balls playing against Barca, Bayern or other good pressing teams. The very next run where he loses the ball shows exactly why it's dangerous and should be avoided.
Going into dribbles is not acceptable for a CB unless it's close to 100% percentage, there's proper defensive cover and you're running into a safe, pressure free zone.
Making the opposition lose their defensive shape is the second best outcome of pressing after winning the ball. Having your CB out of position on a consistent basis is just a free tactical gift to the opponent.
i agree that pressure was nothing special but still, it was enough to force him make a decision and he dealt with situation perfectly. He wont be alowed that against the very top teams but you dont play this teams every weak, 90% of your games is against weaker teams.....
Its dangerous yes but with high reward there is often a high risk involved. I was hearing Martinez interview few weeks ago and he was asked a similar question, he said its all about the number and percentages, so if he was harming his team with that he can easily say to Stones to cut it out and just play the most simple solution but the fact is, the whole team benefits from what Stones does with the ball in his feet.
Agree on the last one but when the opposition CB takes the ball out and eliminates your 4 players that are in high pressure its the worst outcome of pressing, like i said, high risk high reward. If the player is good enough and smart enough to know when to risk and when to play it simple i say go for it as it benefits the whole team to have that kind of player in your defence.
Your Martinez quote makes a lot of sense. I don't doubt Stones quality, he has top class ability on the ball but his pass and move seems a bit off, that will be corrected with proper coaching.
I (and a lot of coaches) disagree with Martinez, I think those are high risk low reward situation. At a top club he will learn to rely on collective quality to beat pressing and use his brilliance to make real breaks.
That's the difference for example between David Luiz who was all over the place against Germany and very disciplined and much more effficient for PSG.
Yep. Stones in and we'll have 3 of the back 4 for England for the next 5 years at least. If we signed Clyne at right back like we should have then we'd have the entire back four as well.
To be fair, you can make a compilation of top defenders and you will be able to pick out sticky situations.
Oh I am glad we did not sign Clyne.
He'll be at City in the summer. I can't see Guardiola settling for Mangala or Otamendi's ball playing abilities.
Which is why we should make a deal either now, or before the summer.
Yes, because City has the best pulling power in England according to some posters here om the caf
£70M for Otamendi and Mangala in two consecutive seasons.
Will be insane if they spend another £35M+ on Stones, we really need to beat them to it.
With a coach of Pep Guardiola's calibre they will have. He stole one of Barcelona's best young talent in his first season at Bayern.
They'll have the best coach in the league, UCL football, a better training ground and more chances of winning trophies than us. Like it, or not.
City are not a real club. They are artificial like Chelsea. If Stones or any player player wants to be part of History, he will move to United, Liverpool or Arsenal.
Of those three United are the only one who also have money.
Of those three United are the only one who also have money.
Chelsea should have signed him to fit next to Zouma. Their styles are perfect together and they are a similar age. Too bad we fecked it up.
I'm guessing if SAF was still a manager both Barkley and Stones could be on their way here.
agree. van Gaal is a handicap.
Or what about sign him now and leave him remain at Everton til the summer?
Wake up mate. No one will join Liverpool when City or Chelsea also make an offer. Players don't really care which team has great history but rather where they can be the most successful right now
They dont have Pep at the moment and they are not the biggest club in England. Pep have also always take charge of the best clubs. It makes more sense to join us.
Nobody really cares that much anymore. I'd say Drogba's legacy in European club football is more impressive than say Henry, for being the man who won them their first Champions League title. Henry was just in line as one of the many, many great players who had just passed through Barcelona.
I was going to keep an eye on Aymeric Laporte, of course he's not playing because he's suspended.
Guardiola doesn't play defenders. He'll sign 5 new midfielders and play them in defense.
Lack of pace is a big issue for me regarding Hummels. Which is a pity, i like everything else about his game (bar his injury record of course). Lack of pace at the back would be a real handicap in the EPL, It's a potential weak area that opponents can look to exploit, as they did with Blind. He became a target for pacy strikers, and left us vulnerable to balls played in behind.
So Stones for me, who is not lightning by any means, but quick enough for it not to be considered a handicap. On top of that he has everything in his locker that Hummels has and more, so if we are going to spend big on a top CB, it simply has to be Stones. I honestly see this signing - should it happen- being possibly as potentially significant as signing Rio turned out to be.
Hype is real.
Not a bad idea. We could still get our man whilst not disrupting Everton's season that much. Hope we don't start pissing about over the fee too much, he is gonna cost £50m, so just offer that and show our intent, and get it done.
Neat ball control skills. He's destined for a top four side. Just a matter of when it will happen.
Has he ever been caught out doing those stupid turns in his own box? There's being a ball playing defender and there's being a bit silly in the 90th minute.