Do you think Thatcher was expressing solidarity with Pinochet when she called him a 'true friend'?
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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Do you think Thatcher was expressing solidarity with Pinochet when she called him a 'true friend'?
Johnson’s great-grandfather was lynched for alleged treason. Selling out your country must run in the blood.
As for Farage, I thought he was of Huguenot stock?
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My apologises. I've fixed the error.Classy
Farage's great great grandfather was a German immigrant in the mid 1800s - his surname may have originated from possible Huguenot ancestry
As you say it's been discussed to death and I think at this point nobody is going to changer their minds. @2cents and @finneh have given better answers to Corbyn and antisemitism than I could so I won't bore you with anything else.
But just on this point, I don't actually dislike many of Corbyn's policies. Many of them I agree with and thought the 2017 manifesto was largely very good. My issue with Corbyn is not based on his policies at all.
And on the point about the Tories - again we are on a very left-leaning forum where most people agree the Tories are a bunch of cnuts and the party is riddled with Islamophobia, so I'm not too sure what needs to be discussed there?
Ah yeah... this kind of "discussion" is really necessary and valuable:
Isn't remembrance day mostly about WW1(Armistice Day is on 11 November and is also known as Remembrance Day. It marks the day World War One ended, at 11am on the 11th day of the 11th month, in 1918)?
It's only recently been a tribute to these blokes and
and people dressing up as poppies.
That I agree he isn’t an Islamaphobe but he’s more than happy to use it to cynically pander to certain audiences. In reality he’s a multi-lingual citizen of the world with mixed heritage (Turkish/French/Russian Jewish) and has mixed race children. He actually used to advocate for Turkey joining the EU. He’s hardly the template for a political hero to the white van man.
You can stop with the faux outrage now.
Take your pick.
You could talk about the Russian funding and the wider implications of partnering a country who commit poisonings on UK soil,
The lack of respect and action for change from Tory MP's for British citizens who died at Grenfell
The lack of change regarding the issues around the Windrush controversy
The fact that Farage and Johnson are essentially working the same playbook as Trump and Bannon (look at the islamophobia, peddling of black myths and anti immigrant sentiment of Breitbart under the letters stewardship for clues).
Or, finally, you could ask why the Tories supported the anti semitic Hungarian government. Who were accused of violating press freedoms, undermining judicial independence, and waging an antisemitic campaign against a leading Jewish businessman.
Tories were only governing conservative party in western Europe to support Hungarian far-right in EU vote
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...arliament-vote-mep-group-europe-a8535511.html
I don’t disagree with any of that @Fluctuation0161. There’s certainly more you could add - and I’d hazard a guess few posters would disagree or dispute those points, which is why I don’t think they end up with pages of debate.
Brilliant, you’re so cool.
in case anyone thought being jewish would protect a left wing candidate from weaponized antisemitism claims
People forget how grim her love-in for him was - went well above and beyond any normal diplomacy to help and protect him despite him being an utterly vile individual.
Watching Angela Rayner speak. Interesting. Would be interesting to see how she would do in government, it as Labour leader.
Could well be her in a few months if Labour lose the election.
I like her but the media would destroy her, probably play on her being a single mother or something.
That's the one who was on BBC Breakfast this morning talking drivel.
Blimey. Obviously we're still in the Middle Ages.
Yeah it doesn’t surprise me.
I mean I'd make the point that her achievements in spite of her academic drawbacks in her early life are a testament to her suitability compared to exclusively privately-educated Bullingdon snobs who've not worked a days honest work, but I'd be wasting my energy.
Eventually I can only hope we reach a point of diminishing returns with the public getting exhausted with the Tories and the compliant media's character assassinations, all while they're force fed more years of crippling cuts, economic instability, rising costs of living and a soon to be decimated health service.
i think starmer and wrong daily are favourites
Raynor, Piddock and Thornberry a bit behind them but hard to imagine anybody outside those 5 at the moment getting the job ... gut feel though they keep corbyn for a little while so that they can chuck him under the EHRC bus thats about to run through the middle of momentum
What exactly was the drivel?
She must have repeated "Trump, Johnson and Farage" about 16 times, very tedious.
Every single one of her answers got those 3 into the answer.
My hope is that in a decade or so, their dwindling circulations would have dissapeared entirely.
I think, even if they win this election, Tories have a bleak future ahead of them. Apart from Brexit, they have no new ideas. It is the same old small government, tough on crime, etc. I guess it is pretty hard to have exciting new ideas when your only reason for being is to maintain the same existing power structures. I cannot believe they still manage to capture people under 30.
Can't be bothered to fact check that, but surely it is no more tiresome than any of the three-word slogans Johnson has on rotation?
Yeh, I'm deliberately lieing, ffs!
And, did I say Johnson was any less tiresome? Since we are discussing Rayner, not Johnson, why would Johnson come into the discussion?
How about saying, "but not a tedious as Klopp or Pep", while you are at it?
Sorry that was lighthearted. I had assumed you were exaggerating. Did you actually count the number of times she mentioned each of those three words in each of her answers? Well done, if so!
What I should have said was she was no more repetitive than any other politician in the middle of a campaign. Johnson is the best example of this. Except he was doing it even before the campaign.
Corbyn was repeating much the same mantra this morning. Obviously, this constant linking of the three for public consumption is deliberate.
Probably for the people who would never think of voting Tory but may end up voting for the Brexit Party. Also the whole "Thatcher on steroids line" thing he came out with.
The tactic of repeating 'Johnson will flog the NHS to Trump' seems sound enough...unsure about the 'Trump will swap America for a dvd' one.
I don't know if its a good or bad thing that Labour are fully embracing the cheapening of political discourse.
There's no doubt that part of what's directed at Corbyn is absolute nonsense (of which that Sun photoshop stunt is a recent example).
But when you equate criticism of Corbyn to painting him as "some despicable Jew-hating reincarnation of Hitler", you're creating a strawman. The reality is that political mudslinging and valid criticism both exist and partly intermingle. I'd expect from Corbyn critics not to resort to cheap attacks (which in light of current thread events goes to @esmufc07), and from critics of the hysterical sides of anti-Corbynism not to use it as a convenient opportunity to shut down legit criticism.
But that's not the whole context either, isn't it?
I mean, Corbyn has cooperated with Iranian regime affiliated broadcast Press TV. He has spoken on Quds Day rallies, whose history with you surely know, and where Khomeini quotes and Hezbollah flags consequently belong to the scenery. He was a guest speaker on a Khomeinist event commemorating the Iranian revolution. Other examples have been posted (and largely ignored). There's obviously a closeness of his brand of anti-imperialism to the political camp (in broad terms) he called friends there. That's surely something people can be scared of, especially those who potentially find themselves in the crosshairs of Islamist antisemitism.
Isn't it necessary to keep that in mind as well when assessing the "friends" statement? I also don't think that's strictly neutral diplomatic talk, but usually reserved for allies - I guess we can all agree Corbyn wouldn't call the Israeli government "friends" for the sake of peace talks.
I make the point here I'm forced to make in practically every discussion of this sort: if the benchmark for criticizing racism, misogyny, antisemitism, homophobia etc. is someone being a rabid individual hater, we can all go home. It's impossible to tackle this stuff on that basis. In reality, any sort of hatred against a group is a case of a smaller violent avantgarde, relying on a much larger camp of ideological enablers and apologists (who often don't see themselves as such).
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Or it's simply because the soundbites in question happened in the immediate aftermath of the announcement that the Brexit party had changed their strategy of not cooperating with the Conservatives literally a week or so after Trump publicly suggested Farage form a pact with Johnson on LBC. With that in mind, it reads more like natural point of discussion based on a timeline of recent events than some grand pavlovian strategy.
Republicans, lobbyists and Trump specifically have been trying to get this "the left is anti-semitic" trope going in the States for a while now after seeing how successful it's been over here but it's not really gained much steam due to the majority of media outlets out there refusing to play ball.
I think it has more to do with american jews being more left leaning. But they still did it successfully with Ilhan Omar.
Johnson Trump Farage, seems an entirely legit grouping and one worth warning against.
All speak highly of each other, they all share a penchant for pantomime spectacle. They all are happy to court the far right, indulge in racist language. If the voting goes their way, then by next year they could be the three most influential and powerful political voices in the west for the foreseeable.
Blair and Bush were far less alike politically and personally than these three but were often spoken about in partnership.
Vote Blair get Brown. Vote Lib Dem get Miliband.
Vote Johnson and you get the nasty lot and also the extra nasty on top. Voting Tory may very well bolster Farage and Trump.
Johnson Trump Farage go together like Inky, Blinky, Pinky and Clyde. Trying to keep you from the NHS medicine. Vote PAC Man.
All speak highly of each other, they all share a penchant for pantomime spectacle. They all are happy to court the far right, indulge in racist language. If the voting goes their way, then by next year they could be the three most influential and powerful political voices in the west for the foreseeable.
Blair and Bush were far less alike politically and personally than these three but were often spoken about in partnership.
Vote Blair get Brown. Vote Lib Dem get Miliband.
Vote Johnson and you get the nasty lot and also the extra nasty on top. Voting Tory may very well bolster Farage and Trump.
Johnson Trump Farage go together like Inky, Blinky, Pinky and Clyde. Trying to keep you from the NHS medicine. Vote PAC Man.
The Ilhan Omar spectacle actually ending up backfiring massively though as it rallied her local base and ultimately pushed the Democrats to circle their wagons around her. Plus the amount of traction it gained on the right was more of a product of their penchant for Islamophobia than people actually internalising this false notion that the left is inherently anti-semitic all of a sudden.