Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

esmufc07 said:
Even with Lib Dem support Corbyn still can't get a majority.

Will come down to the Tory rebels who lost the whip, and they've explicitly stated they will not put Corbyn into No. 10.
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Corbyn will get first crack (if he wants it knowing that getting less votes than Johnson might look very bad) then a compromise candidate... I'd guess Clarke ?

Even if the libs agreed to back Corbyn the best he will get from chuka and Berger is to abstain... As you say without the ex conservatives corbyns not getting the votes (dup certainly won't back him for example)
 
Red Dreams said:
Their action will simply say they care more about getting Corbyn out than preventing Brexit.

I highly doubt their sincerity.
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That would be true but as far as standing on your principles go risking getting kicked out of your own party seems pretty sincere.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
That would be true but as far as standing on your principles go risking getting kicked out of your own party seems pretty sincere.
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If those who oppose a no deal Brexit do not put aside their differences and stand together, we will get the result Johnson wants.
How does that help the country.

There should not be any pre-conditions and political gamesmanship.

I'm not holding my breath.
 
esmufc07 said:
We will have to wait for their manifesto. I didn't really follow their conference so I don't know if they announced any major policies (other than Revoking A50 if they get a majority)
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I listened to Corbyn's speech at the TUC and Labour Conference.
If the Lib/Dems don't have most of those policies I honestly don't see how they can help people.

There really is no time left.
 
Red Dreams said:
If those who oppose a no deal Brexit do not put aside their differences and stand together, we will get the result Johnson wants.
How does that help the country.

There should not be any pre-conditions and political gamesmanship.

I'm not holding my breath.
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Neither am I but I don't doubt that the homeless Tories sincerely don't want to leave Europe. It's just I'm equally convinced they sincerely loathe and mistrust Corbyn - perhaps even more.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
Neither am I but I don't doubt that the homeless Tories sincerely don't want to leave Europe. It's just I'm equally convinced they sincerely loathe and mistrust Corbyn - perhaps even more.
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The hard Brexiters are anti immigrants first and foremost.
If they bothered to listen to Corbyn, all he is for is policies that help working class families.
 
Red Dreams said:
The hard Brexiters are anti immigrants first and foremost.
If they bothered to listen to Corbyn, all he is for is policies that help working class families.
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You won't hear any disagreement from me, but that's saying very little. The ex-tories think he's going to destroy the nation via smash and grabs on private property, self-defeating methods of taxation and create new cavernous black holes in public finance via renationalisation. Giving him the legitimacy of becoming the PM of a government of national unity gives him a level of credibility that makes such a 'disaster' more likely in their eyes.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
You won't hear any disagreement from me, but that's saying very little. The ex-tories think he's going to destroy the nation via smash and grabs on private property, self-defeating methods of taxation and create new cavernous black holes in public finance via renationalisation. Giving him the legitimacy of becoming the PM of a government of national unity gives him a level of credibility that makes such a 'disaster' more likely in their eyes.
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I'm not disagreeing with you either.

That's the Mantra they have been selling...and people have been buying.
By the time they wake up it will be too late.

My point has always been that if you are going to oppose, you have to be For something.
This is where Lib/Dems fail.

But you have to hand it to the Tories.

Brilliant con men.
 
NinjaFletch said:
I'd say 'hmm, despite the questionable original source there does seem to be something here'. You'd see I have done that before in the various Corbyn threads over the years.

But my contention here is that you aren't interested in this because it challenges your view or breaks you out of an echo chamber, but because it perfectly encapsulates what you want to be true of Corbyn and Labour over Brexit (i.e that they're incompetent) to the point you're posting sources (or a chain of sources) you'd dismiss out of hand in other circumstances.
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I posted it because it was an interesting allegation, was via someone on twitter - Daniel Finkelstein - I respect and who is pretty rational, and talked to the trustworthiness of labours desire to find consensus in Brexit, which is coming sharply into view again. So given that, I would like to know whether it is true. But you go ahead and talk nonsense about echo chambers (even though you are the one dismissing it on the basis of who said it rather than what was said).
 
nickm said:
I posted it because it was an interesting allegation, was via someone on twitter - Daniel Finkelstein - I respect and who is pretty rational, and talked to the trustworthiness of labours desire to find consensus in Brexit, which is coming sharply into view again. So given that, I would like to know whether it is true. But you go ahead and talk nonsense about echo chambers (even though you are the one dismissing it on the basis of who said it rather than what was said).
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Eugh, fine. Yes, you're right, you shouldn't question any sources, nor think about what biases the people telling you information might hold, and suggesting that people apply absolutely basic critical thinking skills to what they read – let alone what they read from a former Tory comms head writing about the Labour leader in the Daily Mail – is obviously nonsense.
 
nickm said:
I posted it because it was an interesting allegation, was via someone on twitter - Daniel Finkelstein - I respect and who is pretty rational, and talked to the trustworthiness of labours desire to find consensus in Brexit, which is coming sharply into view again. So given that, I would like to know whether it is true. But you go ahead and talk nonsense about echo chambers (even though you are the one dismissing it on the basis of who said it rather than what was said).
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So just to be clear, you think that it is more likely that Labour was wrecking the discussions than that the government came forward with proposals that were genuinely totally inadequate?

Also, I currently have a bridge listed on eBay, would you be interested?
 
The Sunday Times understands that internal union polling shows that the party is on course to lose more than 100 seats. The poll also suggests that up to a third of those who voted Labour at the last election could desert the party and support the Liberal Democrats. A further 10% are expected to switch to the Brexit Party, according to the data.
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...fears-loss-of-100-seats-in-election-0psf2q9w6

Pidcock and Long Bailey the favourites to replace him apparently. Christ knows when Labour will next be an electoral force.
 
Red Dreams said:
I'm not disagreeing with you either.

That's the Mantra they have been selling...and people have been buying.
By the time they wake up it will be too late.

My point has always been that if you are going to oppose, you have to be For something.
This is where Lib/Dems fail.

But you have to hand it to the Tories.

Brilliant con men.
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Very true.
 
 
Red Dreams said:
Their action will simply say they care more about getting Corbyn out than preventing Brexit.

I highly doubt their sincerity.
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preventing no deal doesn't require Corbyn, it can be done by anybody who can legitimately get the support of the house. Labour, and in particular Corbyn, lose nothing by supporting a respected backbencher from their own party, in fact they look great as they are compromising in the national interest.
 
Sweet Square said:
@esmufc07

I know this won't make any difference to your views because something something Corbyn isn't a very nice man but well its worth reading.

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Not sure I'd exactly describe that as a comprehensive report exactly, but assuming its true it does highlight how reselection can be an own goal for Labour, from a publicity perspective.

Besides, while it may not quite be as dramatic as a left wing insurgency, it still puts the CLP in a bad light - that report suggests that people wanted her out because others wanted her job, which is a poor reason. I have no idea if Hodge in particular is a popular local MP, but generally speaking, if an MP is generally regarded as doing a good job by the constituency, the CLP really shouldn't be trying to remove that person. To do so is to assert that the CLP is more important than the electorate, which I can't agree with.

Granted, making a judgment about whether an MP is doing a good job or not is very difficult, and no MP is universally popular. But all the more reason to exercise caution and to use trigger ballots only in edge cases, such as where the individual risks Labour losing a seat entirely. From that brief note, this doesn't seem to meet that criteria and looks to be about internal machinations only.
 


This sort of comment would never have been possible before Corbyn normalised antisemitism.
 
Untied said:


This sort of comment would never have been possible before Corbyn normalised antisemitism.
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What an idiotic post. Have a word with yourself. The idea that Corbyn is to blame for right-wing anti-Semitic conspiracies is shameful and it completely belittles the problem of anti-Semitism that you're pretending to be so concerned about. The idea that Corbyn has 'normalised antisemitism' also exposes the fact that you clearly have no understanding of the history of anti-Semitism on the continent and more specifically in the UK itself.
 
BobbyManc said:
What an idiotic post. Have a word with yourself. The idea that Corbyn is to blame for right-wing anti-Semitic conspiracies is shameful and it completely belittles the problem of anti-Semitism that you're pretending to be so concerned about. The idea that Corbyn has 'normalised antisemitism' also exposes the fact that you clearly have no understanding of the history of anti-Semitism on the continent and more specifically in the UK itself.
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Was that comment not facetious?
 
BobbyManc said:
What an idiotic post. Have a word with yourself. The idea that Corbyn is to blame for right-wing anti-Semitic conspiracies is shameful and it completely belittles the problem of anti-Semitism that you're pretending to be so concerned about. The idea that Corbyn has 'normalised antisemitism' also exposes the fact that you clearly have no understanding of the history of anti-Semitism on the continent and more specifically in the UK itself.
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I *think* that was his point.
 
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