It doesn't work like that. Corbyn is the leader of the opposition. He obviously has his own party's support and it appears that of the second largest opposition party. It is up to the Lib Dems and the Tories to justify why the need is so great for an alternative figure; the burden is not on Corbyn. A party with about 15 MPs asking the leader of the opposition to step aside for someone else to lead a temporary government is a frankly absurd request without precedent and one which Corbyn would be perfectly justified in refusing to countenance. As I said, it's not about "saving face", it's basically akin to asking him to resign, such is the effect it would likely have on his position.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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It doesn't work like that. Corbyn is the leader of the opposition. He obviously has his own party's support and it appears that of the second largest opposition party. It is up to the Lib Dems and the Tories to justify why the need is so great for an alternative figure; the burden is not on Corbyn. A party with about 15 MPs asking the leader of the opposition to step aside for someone else to lead a temporary government is a frankly absurd request without precedent and one which Corbyn would be perfectly justified in refusing to countenance. As I said, it's not about "saving face", it's basically akin to asking him to resign, such is the effect it would likely have on his position.
If you think he could go that route and avoid the fallout, fair enough, but I whole-heartedly disagree. This isn't a political game.
And on that very basis, why on earth would those opposed to No Deal find it impossible to support the leader of the opposition in order to prevent that very event? The only reason they would oppose Corbyn is because they are playing political games, not him.
Well it must be true if a former tory director of communications says so in the Daily Mail.
This is literally just "the Tories did it first, why can't I?" It's perfectly possible for both he and those Tories (and the Lib Dems, if they're dumb enough to vote against him) to come out of this looking extremely bad.
And the idea he'd have to resign because of it is frankly ludicrous. He had a huge majority of Labour MPs vote no confidence in him and he survived. He just convinced his heavily pro-remain activist base to vote for the lucky dip Brexit policy at conference, purely by making it a loyalty issue. He's not going to have to resign because he helped stop no deal. And even if it were true, I'm not sure how "he allowed no deal to stay in his job" is much better than saving face to be honest.
It's not though. The precedent for this situation could not be clearer. The onus would be on the Lib Dems/Tories to explain their unwillingness to support to the leader of the opposition to stop No Deal, it would not be on Corbyn to explain why he is not caving in to their demands. Labour under Corbyn's leadership won 40% of the vote at the last election. The SNP are hardly admirers of him, but they know how this is supposed to work, hence their willingness to provide temporary support. Once they fall in behind all the pressure is on Swinson to follow suit or explain her opposition. The latter cannot be explained as anything other than playing political games, as you yourself admit.
It is not at all ludicrous to suggest that Corbyn's position as leader of Labour would be untenable if he stepped aside to allow someone else to lead a coalition of opposition parties. You do not grasp how absurd that situation would appear.
Swinson has said she wont work with Corbyn. That's what this is about.
To use this to get Corbyn out. "Political game".
To use this to get Corbyn out. "Political game".
You're still talking as if the blame has to go to one or the other, rather than both for being more interested in their own political fortunes rather than the flow of medicine into the country.
You're right to mention Sturgeon and the SNP, as she's the only one who has a sensible position at the moment, saying she'll support Corbyn or whoever else can pull together a majority to block no deal.
And it's quite easy to grasp, because the far more ridiculous situation where Corbyn went on leading a party whose MPs voted to get rid of him, and then got a good result in an election less than a year later, has already happened. Please tell me the course of events where him backing Margaret Beckett, for instance, causes him to lose the support of Unite and the membership enough to have him toppled? Dear god, they'd be more likely to try and get him canonised for the act of self-sacrifice.
Even if all the libs could somehow be pursuaded to back Corbyn (and I really can't see Berger or chuka doing that) they still have to get a few of the ex conservative MP's or some current conservatives to back corbyn and perhaps most far fetched of all getting all of labour to back him
Corbyn will get first crack but I think fall short by quite a bit predominantly due to ex conservatives And i think ultimately it will end up having to be Clarke and if labour won't back that then it will be a hard brexit
Corbyn will get first crack but I think fall short by quite a bit predominantly due to ex conservatives And i think ultimately it will end up having to be Clarke and if labour won't back that then it will be a hard brexit
I listen to him quite often on LBC. He's quite thick or certainly lacks self-awareness.
Labour promises to overhaul 'cruel' universal credit system
This would definitely be Labour policy if Yvette 'imaginary wheelchairs for medical assessments' Cooper was leading the party, by the way. Anyone who says otherwise is in a cult.
Because Corbyn leads a party with over 200 MP's that's ten times the size of the Lib Dems in parliament. He holds all the cards here. The Lib Dems have marketed themselves as a party who now want to stop Brexit - and at the very least a No Deal Brexit - above all else. If they're unwilling to back Corbyn then that undermines that supposed purpose. From a POV of playing politics there's really no reason, or need, for him to back down on this one: the unity government calls all still seem a bit silly and in the realm of fantasy politics.
If the leader of the largest party, or any other party actually, becomes a temporary PM they will be open to accusations of manoeuvring to further there own position, so it makes sense for the temporary PM to be someone who is going to stand down at the election itself.
Where’s the labour denial? Ive tried finding one. Perhaps I’ve missed it.
I can understand why Swinson doesn’t want Corbyn, having him makes it harder to peel off the Tory votes she needs to get the majority. So that’s just tactics. But ultimately if it takes corbyn, properly constrained, to kill no deal, the. I can go along with it. Although I’m not sure it’s a good look for parliament.
A more neutral figure would be good for that reason yes, to better obtain the support of the Tory MPs that will be needed. A further consideration is that whilst it's widely believed Johnson can't be trusted, the same can be said for Corbyn, who's views on Brexit have been widely questioned, whether fairly or not being beside the point.
God I hope there isn't someone in the Labour Party who is require to respond to Daily Mail articles, poor fecker would be on some insane amount of work hours.
As a matter of interest what policies are Swinson and the Lib/Dems offering that is going to help working families?
We will have to wait for their manifesto. I didn't really follow their conference so I don't know if they announced any major policies (other than Revoking A50 if they get a majority)
At what point does your ironic anti semitic posts just become plan anti semitism ?
Well, that's again very hand-wavy of you, but as you yourself said, he was "former tory director of communications" so was a senior government official not some random bloke. He was tasked by the PM to negotiate with Labour, and he's gone on the record about the negotiations. So yeah, I'd hope the Labour party would deny it if it wasn't true. It's crucially important how much Labour can be trusted to act in good faith in any attempt to form a cross party alliance to kill no deal... isn't it?
At this moment, what matters is killing no deal.
I'm not the one forcing Jewish MPs and Jewish Labour members to leave the party
And if they had you'd respond 'ah well they denied it so there must be some truth to it then'.
Wherever we fall on these issues the least we can ask of each other is to engage our critical brains and not accept verbatim supposed quotes from such a clearly partisan source as gospel.
I agree. But I'm still none the wiser as to why it's totally okay for JC to do the same when Tories inevitably don't do the same for him. Or Ian Austin and John Woodcock, do we think they're really gonna vote for him when they don't even have to worry about reselection? I'm interested in what might work and not much else. People using it to further their own party's agenda right now is irritating.
Er, no, that's not how I work thanks.
Actually, you need to hear from both sides before you can begin to make an informed decision about who to believe, unless you are already biased. The source may be partisan but he is a high government official on the record. So... what does the Labour side have to say?
What if Labour doesn't explicitly deny it but uses a form of words that suggests there might be some truth in it? What would you say then?
That's why wanting Labour's response is worthwhile.
I'll post this again.
Former tories even think that Gibb is a joke and hardly worth listening to. Christ the summer transfer window must be a nightmare for you. 'Well the sun says United are getting Messi and Ole never denied it, so it must be ON!'
So what about other non Jewish Labour MPs who have faced re selection contest ? Or if your going to use individual cases, then why is Jon Lansman still in the party ? Or Ed Miliband ?
Serious question do you actually think Hodge is getting trigger for re selection because she is jewish ? Personally I think its down to her being a right wing MP who has in the past ran racists campaigns and continues to attack the left leader of her party. Also re selection is literally democracy. So I'm guessing you think Margaret Hodge has a job for life as a Labour MP ? Its just disgusting that the Britain public every 4-5 years can force out a standing prime minster. Oh the horror Oh the true horror !
But anyway carry on posting your 'ironic' anti semitic posts.
She is facing reselection because she is a critic of Corbyn and has complained about the party's handling of antisemtisim. Reselection rules were changed to make it far easier to remove anyone who dare criticise the Corbyn project.
Ironic considering how often he himself voted against the party for 30+ years.
Also 6 party branches voted in favour of her, 5 against. But 'democracy'.
I'd say 'hmm, despite the questionable original source there does seem to be something here'. You'd see I have done that before in the various Corbyn threads over the years.
But my contention here is that you aren't interested in this because it challenges your view or breaks you out of an echo chamber, but because it perfectly encapsulates what you want to be true of Corbyn and Labour over Brexit (i.e that they're incompetent) to the point you're posting sources (or a chain of sources) you'd dismiss out of hand in other circumstances.
Are you local member of that Labour CLP ?
Again re selection rules were changed(And it didn't go far enough sadly)because there was a push by members for more party democracy. Also most MPs who have faced re selection have won.
Hold on so if Labour is full of jew hating members who want to get rid of anyone who criticises Corbyn then why did 6 party branches voted in favour of Hodge ?
No I am not, though I don't see what that has to do with anything. I cancelled my Labour membership around 12 months ago.
Hold on, so if Labour is full of jew hating members who want to get rid of anyone who criticises Corbyn then why did 6 party branches voted in favour of Hodge ?
Well then you don't know the reasons why Hodge is up for re selection.
I think we all know why she is up for reselection.