Interesting that you find that funny. I'm bloody furious about it. I'm a natural left-leaning voter who probably would vote Labour if I voted in England - Corbyn has been an absolute disaster for Labour and the country.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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Interesting that you find that funny. I'm bloody furious about it. I'm a natural left-leaning voter who probably would vote Labour if I voted in England - Corbyn has been an absolute disaster for Labour and the country.
He is just as guilty because he has utterly failed to fight it. You can disagree with that if you want but calling me an idiot for stating what is a fact makes you look more foolish than me.
He has been unable to look past his own views of Europe for the good of the country and his party.
By the way there was no need to respond like that.
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If he cared so much about people he'd stop lying about Brexit and go all out to stop it which he hasn't for the past 4 years because he's only really interested in nationalising everything and getting into power. Any type of Brexit will be a disaster for the UK, especially for poorer people.
The Tories may be worse and terrible but having two totally incompetent parties doesn't help anyone.
Everyone knows apart from the blind Corbyn faithful that he won't get a different deal with his own red lines. It is beyond parody. Why, at this particular moment in British history do Labour happen to end up with this fool as their leader.
Agreed, the Tories should have been completely taken to the cleaners with their shambolic government , they can't believe their luck that Corbyn is leader of the opposition.
If I was Labour leader, I’d have simply solved Brexit and pleased everyone. Then I’d have all the votes.
Whats funny is that you say anyone could have done a better job than Corbyn(Thats around 67 million people) yet when asked you failed to come up with a single name. Which just typical and amusing.
As for your frustration, that has more to do with your failure to understand the current political climate than anything to do with Corbyn. Take some time out, read some books, listen to podcasts/lectures etc etc. And actual come up with a analysis for why the country is in this mess(The more vulgar the better in my view). Because your natural left-leaning left views(I guess some sort of indistinct liberal feeling of injustice )isn't helping you and is in fact just making you post - Me think Corbyn BAD!
Its weird, the Stop Brexit button has been right in front of Corbyn for the last 3 years and yet he still hasn't pushed it.
I doubt you could be more patronising if you tried.
You have failed to counter my comments with anything other than purile nonsense without a single counter argument to back up your position. This does suggest that you are unable to do it.
I also did give you plenty of names had you bothered to read my post - I said any opposition leader in the last 30 years could have done a better job - if you actually need me to name them all then I simply can't be arsed but I'm sure you know most of them.
What I've learnt from a single morning posting in this thread is that we have apparently several Corbyn supporters who go on the attack by patronising people and calling them idiots yet do not have a single counter argument between them and have to resort to schoolyard stuff. It's all a bit sad guys.
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Pity he didn't campaign before Brexit to stop it instead of having his own followers voting for their own downfall and falling into Tory hands. Pity he voted to trigger A50, pity he voted against the withdrawal agreement which would have prevented a no-deal Brexit.
So why did he vote against the withdrawal agreement - because he wants to remain or because he is just as moronic as Johnson and thinks he can change the agreement or is it just because May negotiated it and he didn't.
So many things he could have done.
The idea that a new leader could just come in and solve the Brexit issue and sweep up loads of votes in the process is utter fantasy though... I have no idea where that analysis could even come from. The country is still incredibly divided by Brexit and the reality is that even another public vote two years on from the last would still be finely balanced. Labour actually tried to compromise with a softer Brexit but nobody is remotely interested because nobody actually wants compromise.
There is no simple way out of this situation regardless of leader because nobody is about to suddenly persuade leavers or remainers en masse, that they are actually wrong and should switch sides. Especially not with what is such a tribal political climate at the moment. It's like trying to persuade a Liverpool fan that they should support United.
Oh right so your actual making the argument that Ed Milband would have done a better job than Corbyn has over the last 3/4 years ? Or that Gordon Brown would have done better ? Christ I think the only person less popular than Corbyn is Blair.
So if that is your answer(All this is based on what exactly ?) then I don't feel bad about my earlier condescending post to you.
Cheers.
I honestly do think that yes. Corbyn is the worst Labour leader I can think of in my lifetime. You think he is doing a good job!?
Its not about solving the Brexit issue - it's about taking a position and fighting on that basis - it's really not that difficult to do, politicians do it all the time. This is basic stuff. Labour is all over the bloody place.
Based on what(Something other than your personal feelings.) ? And how would past leader have done any better ?
Based on the utter shambles that I have observed since he has had the position - its incredibly frustrating as he does have many policy ideas that I could definitely get behind but all of that is made irrelevant by how badly he has handled brexit - you have around a 50/50 split in the UK right now on Brexit - what he should have done, in my view, is picked a position and stuck to it - I'd have liked them to fight against Brexit completely but perhaps that was impossible so then they should have campaigned for a very soft brexit - they did not do this either. So essentially you have Labour being pretty similar to the Tories on Brexit - indeed part of their current 'position' is to re-negotiate brexit which is exactly the same bloody policy as the Tories - and laughable as it's a complete fantasy.
What a huge missed opportunity this has been - you have almost half the country who voted remain sitting there with nobody other than the Lib Dems actually stating they will fight brexit. The Tories have been a total disaster throughout this process and ripe for the taking - this was the chance for Labour to put the boot in and possibly destroy the Tories for a generation but no, nothing.
I absolutely hate the Tories and all they stand for but I also now hate Corbyn for fecking up this once in a generation chance to take them out and also for not being pro-active enough to try and stop us getting into this bloody awful situation with brexit. Corbyn has been unable to overcome his own view on Europe for the greater good - that is why I hold him personally responsible for screwing this up.
No other Labour leader in recent times has the background and history he has and this is what has fecked the entire thing up. This is why any of them would have played this in a very different way -- they have been up against the worst Tory leadership in my lifetime and have completely let them get away with it because Corbyn also dislikes Europe.
He's taking the position of "respect the original result, try to make it work, offer a 2nd vote on the final outcome". It's really not hard to understand. If you're honestly assigning as much blame to the person who is taking that position as you are to the people who:
Came up with the stupid idea of the referendum in the first place & put it in their manifesto, failed to meaningfully plan for brexit winning, completely lied about what brexit means on a repeated basis, mislead the country on whether no-deal was likely, spent 3 years fecking around and subverting democracy, and loads of other things I can't be bothered listing because if you've been paying any attention at all you should be already aware of them.
If you honestly blame Corbyn as much as that lot, then I can confirm that you are a complete idiot.
Tbf Brexit is a complete turd. Doesn't matter how you handle it, you're still gonna get shit on your hands.
He is currently trying to make a position out of 're-negotiating the deal' - on what planet is he on at this stage? If they re-negotiate a deal (they won't) then do they support brexit on those terms or are they against brexit? What side do they support in any referendum? Nobody bloody knows. That is my point.
The Tories are responsible for starting this absolute shit show but Labour are responsible for not holding them to account and letting it get to the point were we are possibly staring at an imminent no-deal.
You know this is bollocks, yet you wilfully and disingenuously parrot it anyway?
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He's on the planet where more than half of voters in a referendum said they want to leave. Are you on the planet where that didn't happen because it would explain a lot of your thinking.
Again you have not answered my question. Constant deflection won't cut it I'm afraid. You have said absolutely nothing of worth in any of your responses. No counter arguments, no explanations of your view. Absolutely nothing at all. Why is that?
I've no issue with you disagreeing with my view - but to do it without actually responding with any substance or attempt to counter my view does lessen the impact of your input.
I told you what planet he's on. You're not fecking Paxman mate.
The “sensible, rational middle ground” again.
Yes I saw him a couple of time son TV , same as he is in parliament, awful - so passionate not - pre Brexit campaigning was full of many other other people but Corbyn did not appear very often in comparison.
What about my other points - he had the power to stop a no-deal Brexit but didn't - so he played his part and wasn't powerless.
If the leader of the opposition is so meek and powerless what is the point of him being there?
That's it is it? Well I'm convinced - sorry I take it all back, Corbyn is a fantastic leader and I'm 100% wrong. Your arguments were knowledgeable, skilled and well-balanced. I never stood a chance.
Fantastic insight into your views once again.
No but seriously, is that it?
Corbyn appeared more than anyone else outside of Cameron and Osborne so once again you are full of shit.
Sometimes it's good to let off a bit of steam.
The difference is that I accept that trying to make Brexit work and then offering a 2nd referendum is a valid position at this stage considering how divided the country is on it. Corbyn needs to see what the deal is before he can state whether he'll back it or not - even if he already knows what he'll do privately. If he came out and backed remain now the brexiters will go even more apeshit. He's trying to be the only calm and compromising voice in this whole debate, which is difficult when it's full of screaming idiots.
Yeah right, never saw Farage or Johnson - absolutely bull.
What, like current Remain champion - and person you’ll likely vote for - Jo Swinson??
“Yes the thing I said before was a compete lie, but I thought I’d get away with it... anywhoo, how about the other thing I said?”
But since you mentioned it, yeah, it is super weird that the Leader of the Opposition decided to respect the referendum result in the immediate aftermath of the largest act of democratic rebellion this century. It’s not like it would’ve been political suicide and an obvious point of attack for the Government, or anything.
It’s almost as if you live in a completely contextless social and political vacuum?
“Why won’t everyone compromise 100% with me!?” Says man utterly unprepared to compromise.
Actually you're right, he appeared more than anyone else who supported remain but there were leavers ahead of him. Including those 2 clowns. That says a lot about remain in general though as he still campaigned for remain more than almost anyone else.
On Remainers they were very thin on the ground , yes, it was a terrible campaign - I'm not saying it's just Corbyn but the Tory Remainers were just as much to blame for poor campaigning
The Tory remainers arguments seemed to actually help the leave side. People complained about Corbyn's 7/10 on Europe line but that was the most persuasive thing I heard the whole campaign from a politician.
See now I can start to take you seriously because you finally respond with a position rather than some sort of childish gibberish. The problem I have with this is that he, like the Tories, are still peddling the - in my view - false impression that the brexit deal can be re-negotiated at this point so I find it difficult to believe anything about their position - having said that IF Corbyn either supported the withdrawl agreement or even if he supported an extension of Art 50 then I would be much happier. He knows what the deal is - we all do - it's the withdrawl agreement that is already in place - dancing around this has been a major problem for both the Tories and Labour. Offering a 2nd referendum is fine but what would their position be in that case - are they a pro-brexit (with a deal they can live with) party or an anti-brexit party? They seem to have flitted between both positions and I honestly have no idea what they are.
Compromise and calmness are all well and good but they are being untruthful about the current situation as much as the Tories are - the fact is that the only thing that might change a little in the deal is the nature of the backstop - other than that, this is the deal.
For the many not the Jew.
What, like current Remain champion - and person you’ll likely vote for - Jo Swinson??
“Yes the thing I said before was a compete lie, but I thought I’d get away with it... anywhoo, how about the other thing I said?”
But since you mentioned it, yeah, it is super weird that the Leader of the Opposition decided to respect the referendum result in the immediate aftermath of the largest act of democratic rebellion this century. It’s not like it would’ve been political suicide and an obvious point of attack for the Government, or anything.
It’s almost as if you live in a completely contextless social and political vacuum?
“Why won’t everyone compromise 100% with me!?” Says man utterly unprepared to compromise.
I'd never heard of Jo Swinson until a few weeks ago so no - fortunately I don't have to vote for anyone but there isn't anybody I would vote for - just as an outside observer .
My points were that he should have done much more before the referendum and since the referendum should have held the government more responsible for their actions. He could have prevented a no-deal by voting for the WA and so will be held, whether he likes it or not, partly responsible for the UK crashing out if it does so.
We don't really know what is truthful about the situation at this stage. Someone made the good point that if Corbyn negotiated with the EU the softest of brexits that they would probably go for that (they'd be silly not to at least).
I don't really see why Labour need to be pro or anti brexit at this stage. The vote happened. Trying to campaign on pure remain is good/leave is good doesn't seem to be working at this stage as there are entrenched supporters on both sides. Why is "we're going to try and make it work, then we'll let the country decide on whether to go with our attempt at making it work or remain" a bad position to take. It throws brexiters a bone. It gives remainers what they have been campaigning for (the 2nd ref) in a way that some brexiters might actually be prepared to vote for in a GE (rather than going straight revoke, which no brexiter would vote for). What's actually wrong with that?
What, like current Remain champion - and person you’ll likely vote for - Jo Swinson??
“Yes the thing I said before was a compete lie, but I thought I’d get away with it... anywhoo, how about the other thing I said?”
But since you mentioned it, yeah, it is super weird that the Leader of the Opposition decided to respect the referendum result in the immediate aftermath of the largest act of democratic rebellion this century. It’s not like it would’ve been political suicide and an obvious point of attack for the Government, or anything.
It’s almost as if you live in a completely contextless social and political vacuum?
“Why won’t everyone compromise 100% with me!?” Says man utterly unprepared to compromise.
Regarding those stats on Corbyn's contribution to the referendum, are there any stats on how he compares to other prominent campaigners at the time?
I'm not entirely sure it's fair to directly compare Swinson (who only became LibDem leader this year and who wasn't an MP at the time of the referendum) with Corbyn (who was Labour leader at the time of the referendum) given one would probably expect more prominent politicians to take more prominent roles in a referendum campaign?
this poll from the other day which says 20% think Corbyn would make the best PM? To be fair, that is a 3% point increase on March 2017.
For nearly 3 years after the referendum Labour supporters had absolutely no fecking idea whether Labour were pro-Leave or pro-Remain. Corbyn was very obviously trying to keep both camps happy by finding some middle route but instead of just picking a direction and being open about it, he refused over and over again to give a clear policy position. It appeared as if he had to be dragged kicking and screaming into accepting a 2nd referendum policy, and even now we don't actually know whether he wants to make the party position pro-Remain or pro-leave with a deal.
This isn't nuanced and complex, its ambiguous and confusing, which is why Labours poll numbers are on their arse despite facing the most embarrasing couple of Tory governments in history.
There's a study on media appearances https://blog.lboro.ac.uk/crcc/eu-re...16-eu-referendum-report-5-6-may-22-june-2016/:
Position Name | Number of appearances | Percentage of items in which they appeared
1 David Cameron (Conservative IN) 499 24.9%
2 Boris Johnson (Conservative OUT) 379 18.9%
3 George Osborne (Conservative IN) 230 11.5%
4 Nigel Farage (UKIP OUT) 182 9.1%
5 Michael Gove (Conservative OUT) 161 8.0%
6 Ian Duncan Smith (Conservative OUT) 124 6.2%
7 Jeremy Corbyn (Labour IN) 123 6.1%
8 Priti Patel (Conservative OUT) 65 3.2%
9 Gordon Brown (Labour IN) 52 2.6%
10 John Major (Conservative IN) 47 2.3%
11 Jacob Rees-Mogg (Conservative OUT) 35 1.7%
12= Chris Grayling (Conservative OUT) 33 1.6%
12= Gisela Stuart (Labour OUT) 33 1.6%
14= Theresa May (Conservative IN) 29 1.4%
14= Donald Tusk (President European Council IN) 29 1.4%
16 Nicola Sturgeon (SNP IN) 28 1.4%
17= Bernard Jenkin (Conservative OUT) 24 1.2%
17= Sadiq Khan (Labour IN) 24 1.2%
19 Liam Fox (Conservative OUT) 23 1.1%
20 Jean-Claude Juncker (President of the EC IN) 21 1.0%
21 Alistair Darling (Labour IN) 20 1.0%
22 Alan Johnson (Labour IN) 19 .9%
23= Amber Rudd (Conservative IN) 18 .9%
23= Ed Balls (Labour IN) 18 .9%
25= Norman Lamont (Conservative OUT) 17 .8%
25= ******* Harman (Labour IN) 17 .8%
26= Angela Merkel (Chancellor of Germany IN) 16 .8%
26= Sarah Wollaston (Conservative OUT then IN) 16 .8%
26= John McDonnell (Labour IN) 16 .8%
30 Angela Eagle (Labour IN) 15 .7%