Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

It seems to me that the general sentiment of 'We may as well give him a go, he can't do any worse than the current bunch' is starting to gain more traction and echo.

I'm personally lukewarm to him. I think he'd do okay, but don't like his attitude to foreign policy and could do with a strong and independent FO.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Isnt that photo with Paul Hill who was wrongly convicted and later totally exonerated of any involvement?Jeremy Corbyn goes to the wedding of an innocent man?

Got him this time eh...
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Nope, I think it was when they invited the IRA Commander Jerry Adams for tea they are talking about. Don’t know if McGuiness came or if he was buying arms from Gadafi that week;)
 
Offsideagain said:
Nope, I think it was when they invited the IRA Commander Jerry Adams for tea they are talking about. Don’t know if McGuiness came or if he was buying arms from Gadafi that week;)
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Of course the factually correct answer is "yes it is."
 
Dobba said:
Yvette Cooper, you know, the Progressives' Princess. Back in the glory days where 'progressives' were happy to do anything to rip money out of vulnerable people's hands she was right at the heart of it, including coming up with the idea of using 'imaginary wheelchairs' in work capability assessments. She was also more than happy to look the other way regarding the Tories' immigration plans, despite famed thick as shit Diane Abbott predicting it would lead to things that bear a remarkable resemblance to the Windrush scandal.

Still, at least she's not Corbyn.
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Sometimes I think you’d rather have the Tories in power than have Corbyn removed. The choice isn’t the awful Cooper vs the sainted Jeremy. It’s the awful Cooper (or sometime like that) vs the disastrous Johnson. Labour members are going to have to decide very soon how much longer they can sit by and watch the Tories destroy the country, and whether keeping Jeremy in place is too high a price to pay for being kept out of power.
 
owlo said:
It seems to me that the general sentiment of 'We may as well give him a go, he can't do any worse than the current bunch' is starting to gain more traction and echo.

I'm personally lukewarm to him. I think he'd do okay, but don't like his attitude to foreign policy and could do with a strong and independent FO.
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At this point the only issue that matters is Brexit. Everything else is secondary.
 
nickm said:
Sometimes I think you’d rather have the Tories in power than have Corbyn removed. The choice isn’t the awful Cooper vs the sainted Jeremy. It’s the awful Cooper (or sometime like that) vs the disastrous Johnson. Labour members are going to have to decide very soon how much longer they can sit by and watch the Tories destroy the country, and whether keeping Jeremy in place is too high a price to pay for being kept out of power.
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Surely the exact same accusation could be levelled at a section of centre leaning liberals whose priorities seem more concerned with removing Corbyn, than getting behind him to defeat Johnson?

At what particular point do you define one as rational well meaning do-gooding, and one as irrational, cultist extremism?

As someone whose never been entirely convinced by, and often very critical of Corbyn, it’s nonetheless amazing to me how quickly the “liberal” opposition towards him has ramped up again, in the immediate aftermath of a pretty good week for him, and a disastrous calamity for the Tories... Maybe I’m just overthinking it, but the timing of it baffles me... especially coming from so many self proclaimed performative progressives. Who benefits from this?
 
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Mockney said:
Surely the exact same accusation could be levelled at a section of centre leaning liberals whose priorities seem more concerned with removing Corbyn, than getting behind him to defeat Johnson?

At what particular point do you define one as rational well meaning do-gooding, and one as irrational, cultist extremism?

As someone whose never been entirely convinced by, and often very critical of Corbyn, it’s nonetheless amazing to me how quickly the “liberal” opposition towards him has ramped up again, in the immediate aftermath of a disastrous week of Tory calamity... Maybe I’m just overthinking it, but the timing of it baffles me... especially coming from so many self proclaimed performative progressives. Who benefits from this?
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The timing is hella strange. He's come off one of his best weeks in forever, has showed he can work cross party in a matter of urgency, and has eviscerated BJ at the dispatch box. I'm certainly no Corbyn affectionado, but you can kind of understand his paranoia and the Momentum putsch in the LC's.

Are they ramping up to remove him at the conference?
 
Grinner said:
At this point the only issue that matters is Brexit. Everything else is secondary.
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Yes and no. Tory heartland remainers would be more likely to vote for say, Tony Blair, than JC. He's certainly on the fringes of what many in the electorate find tolerable.

I can't remember the exact poll, but of 1000 conservative remain voters, 800 odd said they would be voting for labour in the next GE if it wasn't JC at the helm.
 
owlo said:
Yes and no. Tory heartland remainers would be more likely to vote for say, Tony Blair, than JC. He's certainly on the fringes of what many in the electorate find tolerable.

I can't remember the exact poll, but of 1000 conservative remain voters, 800 odd said they would be voting for labour in the next GE if it wasn't JC at the helm.
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What pressing foreign policy issues, outside of Brexit, do we currently have?
 
Grinner said:
What pressing foreign policy issues, outside of Brexit, do we currently have?
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Doesn't matter if there aren't any for the next 10 years. They [Typical conservative and swingers] still won't vote for him. He is that polarising.

(I'm sure he'd create tension with Israel or the US or something pretty sharpish, but I'm still willing to give him a go myself. Same for many left leaning voters, we'll give him the benefit of the doubt.)
 
Offsideagain said:
All the Tories have to do is put up a ‘ Do you want Diane Abbot as Home Secretary?’ and they will walk it.
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I know, God forbid we have a black woman as Home Secretary. It's much better when we have a white one who'll do her best to deport British citizens whose skin colour happens to not match her own.
 
I've seen this for much of my life: 'objective' polls & surveys designed to make people think 'Well, I won't vote for Labour because it looks like few others are.'
 
owlo said:
The timing is hella strange. He's come off one of his best weeks in forever, has showed he can work cross party in a matter of urgency, and has eviscerated BJ at the dispatch box. I'm certainly no Corbyn affectionado, but you can kind of understand his paranoia and the Momentum putsch in the LC's.
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Ultimately it doesn’t matter how well he does now. His reputation is priced in amongst the voting public. So whether people get behind him now or not, is really immaterial other than for window dressing.
 
nickm said:
Sometimes I think you’d rather have the Tories in power than have Corbyn removed. The choice isn’t the awful Cooper vs the sainted Jeremy. It’s the awful Cooper (or sometime like that) vs the disastrous Johnson. Labour members are going to have to decide very soon how much longer they can sit by and watch the Tories destroy the country, and whether keeping Jeremy in place is too high a price to pay for being kept out of power.
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Oh please. Suddenly Cooper, Big Dave Miliband or the next anointed progressive, who couldn't be bothered arguing even one step to the left of the Tories on immigration or welfare for most of the last decade are suddenly not going to "sit by and watch the Tories destroy the country". Give me a break.
 
BobbyManc said:
I know, God forbid we have a black woman as Home Secretary. It's much better when we have a white one who'll do her best to deport British citizens whose skin colour happens to not match her own.
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What's her skin tone got to do with it? Who cares what colour her skin is? Is this satire?

She's incompetent, they're both incompetent.
 
Red Dreams said:
With Centrists its about polls, strategy...anything but what is good for people.

Austerity lite as served by Lib/Dems...just the ticket.
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Tend to agree. Most “centrists” don’t believe in anything, bar what they believe people will vote for.

I studied Politics at University and honestly, I can completely understand why this country is in such a mess. Of the 100+ people in my year group, I’d say 90% were oddballs with no grounding in reality and/or wannabe schemers who would do or say anything to get into Westminster
 
nickm said:
Sometimes I think you’d rather have the Tories in power than have Corbyn removed. The choice isn’t the awful Cooper vs the sainted Jeremy. It’s the awful Cooper (or sometime like that) vs the disastrous Johnson. Labour members are going to have to decide very soon how much longer they can sit by and watch the Tories destroy the country, and whether keeping Jeremy in place is too high a price to pay for being kept out of power.
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I can see a possibility of a hung parliament with libs being kingmaker's and labour having the option
1. Corbyn lead minority administration that can achieve nothing
2. Formal coalition with libs provided Corbyn is not pm ...
I suspect they will go with option 1 and it would be a disaster
 
'Disaster' is relative to one's experience, and one's view of the effect a Party's governance has had on its public. For instance, my definition of Conservative rule over decades is that it virtually defines the word 'disaster'.
 
Sassy Colin said:
What's her skin tone got to do with it? Who cares what colour her skin is? Is this satire?

She's incompetent, they're both incompetent.
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balaks said:
Why bring race into it?
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711 said:
Isn't Priti Patel home secretary now? Only brown though, sorry she's not black.
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Because Dianne Abbott attracts more vitriol than any other politician, and we all know why that is. It's tiring seeing her treated as nothing other than a figure of fun for the right-wing. In the run up to the last election, a study of abuse sent to female MPs exposed that she was the target of almost half of all the abusive messages. It's tiring just seeing lazy and unarticulated criticisms of her like 'lol imagine her as Home Secretary', especially when you consider the disgusting and racist policies of our most recent Home Secretaries yet they escape with less criticism than a woman whose worst sin is alleged incompetence. If Abbott makes an error, it is immortal and she is forever deemed to be incompetent whereas her white, male counterparts (be it belonging to the "left" or "right") can commit blunder after blunder or implement vile policies and still be treated with far more credibility as a political figure than Abbott is.
 
BobbyManc said:
. If Abbott makes an error, it is immortal and she is forever deemed to be incompetent whereas her white, male counterparts (be it belonging to the "left" or "right") can commit blunder after blunder or implement vile policies and still be treated with far more credibility as a political figure than Abbott is.
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Yeah I'm sure if a white male colleague had said the problem is black people then that would have been totally brushed over ... It's just a right wing media conspiracy to make her seem feking incompetent

That said she's used to double standards... You know like saying private schools are immoral and should be abolished whilst sending her son to one... At least the policy seems to have changed now to taxing them so that only the really rich people like her and Corbyn can afford them and ensure it will be kept of out reach for many others.

Will be interesting to see if she bans Finnish nurses though if she is home sec

After all it was her who said blonde haired blue eyed Finnish girls should not be nurses as they have never met a black person

She's a Liability though I guess it allows people to argue that Corbyn isn't the most useless person in front bench politics
 
SteveJ said:
I've seen this for much of my life: 'objective' polls & surveys designed to make people think 'Well, I won't vote for Labour because it looks like few others are.'
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Indeed.

Yet you still find many, even on here, defending polling with blind faith despite not even know how it works
 
Lentwood said:
Tend to agree. Most “centrists” don’t believe in anything, bar what they believe people will vote for.

I studied Politics at University and honestly, I can completely understand why this country is in such a mess. Of the 100+ people in my year group, I’d say 90% were oddballs with no grounding in reality and/or wannabe schemers who would do or say anything to get into Westminster
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Just look at the posts on this thread.
Its like a football game. Its about getting 'your side' to win. Win what?

Swinson and Johnson are in it for themselves.

Corbyn is the only genuine candidate.
 
Red Dreams said:
Just look at the posts on this thread.
Its like a football game. Its about getting 'your side' to win. Win what?

Swinson and Johnson are in it for themselves.

Corbyn is the only genuine candidate.
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Plato got it right over two thousand years ago....the problem is that those best fit to govern are those who do not want to
 
Lentwood said:
Tend to agree. Most “centrists” don’t believe in anything, bar what they believe people will vote for.
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Centrists - or moderates if you will - believe extremists and extremist, partisan, black and white thinking is dangerous, unrealistic and should be resisted. They believe in dialogue, argument, compromise, and a rational, evidence based approach rather than one based on ideology. Politically this would manifest itself in the broad centre ground.

Moderates will fight for these values if they have to. The idea that "centrism" is the absence of a political philosophy, is just a bit ignorant.
 
nickm said:
Centrists - or moderates if you will - believe extremists and extremist, partisan, black and white thinking is dangerous, unrealistic and should be resisted. They believe in dialogue, argument, compromise, and a rational, evidence based approach rather than one based on ideology. Politically this would manifest itself in the broad centre ground. The idea that "centrism" is the absence of a political philosophy, is just a bit ignorant.
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So what do Centrists do for the needs of ordinary people?
 
nickm said:
Centrists - or moderates if you will - believe extremists and extremist, partisan, black and white thinking is dangerous, unrealistic and should be resisted. They believe in dialogue, argument, compromise, and a rational, evidence based approach rather than one based on ideology. Politically this would manifest itself in the broad centre ground.

Moderates will fight for these values if they have to. The idea that "centrism" is the absence of a political philosophy, is just a bit ignorant.
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Note the “centrists” in inverted commas....it’s not a comment on whether it’s possible to hold a centrist position, it’s a comment on my opinion that many “centrists” are centrists because they will happily flip-flop from one set of beliefs to another depending on which way the winds are blowing
 
Lentwood said:
Plato got it right over two thousand years ago....the problem is that those best fit to govern are those who do not want to
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Plato was wrong and his philosophy is essentially a totalitarian one.
 
Lentwood said:
Note the “centrists” in inverted commas....it’s not a comment on whether it’s possible to hold a centrist position, it’s a comment on my opinion that many “centrists” are centrists because they will happily flip-flop from one set of beliefs to another depending on which way the winds are blowing
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That just reflects the fact that most people don't give a shit about politics.
 
Centrists will introduce same sex marriage and then bash the unemployed and working poor.
 
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