Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

Ubik said:
By the looks of it she just likes doing her nails.
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:lol: I think I have a legitimate point about the poppy being trivialised.

Also back to the point at hand, the First World War definitely should be commemorated, if Corbyn doesn't think so I disagree with him. But I think it is open to question whether our commemorations have a strong enough anti-war sentiment (I don't think they do).
 
Chorley1974 said:
Apart from security, tradition, and recognising them usually. I don't agree that military being at sporting events glorifies them, it's recognition and thanks.
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It isn't for security that soldiers line the pitch at cup finals. Tradition is a poor excuse, and why should football fans recognise the military?

It does point towards a militaristic society -- it's a form of ideological state apparatus commonly seen in democracies. The state can't be propped up by force, so it's generally held together by ideology and propaganda.
 
Untied said:
It's a general impression I get, and something I think has increased over the last 10 years or so. I think what some people see as respect I see as glorification (Help for Heroes is a good example of that).

The best example I can give is Armed Forces Day:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33297272
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I think we just agree to disagree. I think the armed forces are massively under appreciated, what you see as glorifying I see as appreciation.
 
There may be occasions where we glorify the military, but the poppies and remembrance Sunday feel like one of those occasions wherein we're simply remembering those who were killed in conflict, as opposed to glorifying our own army, and war in general.
 
Chorley1974 said:
I think we just agree to disagree. I think the armed forces are massively under appreciated, what you see as glorifying I see as appreciation.
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Without meaning to be obtuse, appreciation for what exactly? Britain isn't under the threat of invasion, and hasn't been since world war two.
 
Ubik said:
Jesus christ, it's the deaths that are commemorated, it's not a celebration of the war ffs. That he seems to think that's what November 11th is about shows how contemptibly clueless he is about the country.
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Exactly. And clueless about most other things too. I wouldn't have him running a raffle never mind the fecking country!
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
It isn't for security that soldiers line the pitch at cup finals. Tradition is a poor excuse, and why should football fans recognise the military?
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It's like asking why anyone recognise the military. Going out on a limb I'd say most football fans are happy to recognise the military. I don't think it's glorifying the military though.

The army does a lot of work keeping sporting events safe, for example army bomb disposal work at sports events, sweeping them for bombs, this work never gets highlighted. This is something sports fans should be appreciative of at least.
 
Chorley1974 said:
It's like asking why anyone recognise the military. Going out on a limb I'd say most football fans are happy to recognise the military. I don't think it's glorifying the military though.

The army does a lot of work keeping sporting events safe, for example army bomb disposal work at sports events, sweeping them for bombs, this work never gets highlighted. This is something sports fans should be appreciative of at least.
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Fair enough (on your second point). I'm not anti-army fwiw, just don't agree with what I see as glorification -- I also think that they get a shitty deal most of the time. They do what they're told, and the majority of them are working class lads who are either patriotic or just need the money/career option.
 
Chorley1974 said:
You really think that invasion is the only tangible threat to Britain? lol
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Well, terrorism too, but specialist police forces usually battle that sort of thing these days. Not since the IRA has the army really had a leading role in counter-terrorism on home soil.
 
Lest we forget that Cameron said he wanted the World War 1 commemorations to be like the jubilee celebrations, so perhaps Corbyn was on to something :wenger:
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
Well, terrorism too, but specialist police forces usually battle that sort of thing these days. Not since the IRA has the army really had a leading role in counter-terrorism on home soil.
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My brother worked in army intelligence and bomb disposal in his military career, as well as crawling around in the back gardens and houses of known terrorists in Ireland, he also spent a lot of time intercepting and translating intelligence that related to threats to the UK.

I have skin in the game in terms of wanting to see recognition, as my brother spent a long time in the military, and basically got screwed over and spat out by the machine. They don't get paid much for what they do, and a lot of them end up suffering from either physical or mental illness relating to their service.

I respect that you have an opinion that it's glorification, but I see it as recognition, and a lot of people understand that they do a lot for a little.
 
Chorley1974 said:
My brother worked in army intelligence and bomb disposal in his military career, as well as crawling around in the back gardens and houses of known terrorists in Ireland, he also spent a lot of time intercepting and translating intelligence that related to threats to the UK.

I have skin in the game in terms of wanting to see recognition, as my brother spent a long time in the military, and basically got screwed over and spat out by the machine. They don't get paid much for what they do, and a lot of them end up suffering from either physical or mental illness relating to their service.

I respect that you have an opinion that it's glorification, but I see it as recognition, and a lot of people understand that they do a lot for a little.
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There's some criticism of the military machine in there and my concern would be that if you do too much honouring of the military you end up perhaps encouraging young people to enter the services? It's finding that balance between respecting service people and supporting them after their service has ended, but not glorifying the services themselves.

From a purely financial perspective (probably the worst way to discuss war and the armed forces), presumably if fewer people were willing to enter the military the wages would have to rise as an incentive.
 
Untied said:
I didn't visit it, but I do know it raised money for Help for Heroes (amongst others), which doesn't set a particularly positive tone.
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It was a very thought provoking landscape, not only for those symbolically represented by each poppy but so many others around the world (military and civilian).


Mciahel Goodman said:
Without meaning to be obtuse, appreciation for what exactly? Britain isn't under the threat of invasion, and hasn't been since world war two.
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The UK's armed forces take on many roles globally: Nearly a thousand personnel were sent on the mission to Ebola stricken Sierra Leone, there have been hundreds helping west African countries in their fight against Boko Haram and other insurgent groups, and the Royal Navy regularly assists in disaster relief.
 
Jeremy Corbyn said:
It was a war of the declining empires and anyone that even read or dipped into Hobson's great work of the early part of the 20th century written post-Boer war [?] first world war as a war between monopolies fighting in our free markets, and that's essentially what the first world war was
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This is possibly a stupid question, but does he not mean Hobsbawm?
 
Have any of you been following Kate Godfrey's bid to be selected as the Labour candidate in Oldham?

The Telegraph's James Kirkup has described the NEC's rejection of her application as the beginning of a purge, which might be somewhat premature. The decision does however have the potential to be bad PR locally, as the CLP reportedly asked ehr to apply.

 
Untied said:
It's a general impression I get, and something I think has increased over the last 10 years or so. I think what some people see as respect I see as glorification (Help for Heroes is a good example of that).

The best example I can give is Armed Forces Day:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33297272
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You see Help for Heroes as glorification?
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Have any of you been following Kate Godfrey's bid to be selected as the Labour candidate in Oldham?

The Telegraph's James Kirkup has described the NEC's rejection of her application as the beginning of a purge, which might be somewhat premature. The decision does however have the potential to be bad PR locally, as the CLP reportedly asked ehr to apply.

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I posted an article not sure if it was in here or the Westminster thread
But basically it's a surprise she has not made the long list... There is a local candidate who is strongly favoured but not a corbynista so it will be interesting to see if momentum manage to get one of their own in ahead of him... If they do I think a party split is inevitable
 
Ubik said:
He says a sentence later that it was to b a "celebration" of WW1. Because poppies being made to resemble torrents of blood is exactly the kind of thing you do to celebrate. All those readings of the war poets who'd die soon after was all just to say "good job guys, and we'd make you do it all over again".

Jeremy Corbyn is a moron.

EDIT - But he mentions having a moment of silence for Chavez! The absolute irony. Okay he's not a moron, he's a cnut.
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Maybe he would attend a celebration if it were the blood of soldiers/civilians killed by his pals in the IRA during the Troubles with his shadow chancellor.
 
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Untied said:
There's some criticism of the military machine in there and my concern would be that if you do too much honouring of the military you end up perhaps encouraging young people to enter the services? It's finding that balance between respecting service people and supporting them after their service has ended, but not glorifying the services themselves.

From a purely financial perspective (probably the worst way to discuss war and the armed forces), presumably if fewer people were willing to enter the military the wages would have to rise as an incentive.
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I take it from your post that service in the military is not a worthwhile and honourable profession?


sun_tzu said:
I posted an article not sure if it was in here or the Westminster thread
But basically it's a surprise she has not made the long list... There is a local candidate who is strongly favoured but not a corbynista so it will be interesting to see if momentum manage to get one of their own in ahead of him... If they do I think a party split is inevitable
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Ah, i never saw that else i'd have quoted you. The by-election has been set for Thursday the 3rd of December btw.

Despite her failure in this instance i think i will keep tabs on Godfrey, there being few political figures who advance disability rights prominently.
 
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There are many Sean Beans out there.Something the the so called centrists fail to grasp.
 
Today in Westminster would appear to be dominated by Syria: No 10 is doing all it can ot rebuff claims that a Commons vote has been pushed into a dark corner (a failure of planning), whilst Corbyn's Labour are...






Former Labour transport minister, Tom Harris, responded with the following:
"Shadow Minister Catherine West says she’ll consult “Stop the War” in the event of a vote on military action in Syria. Jesus. Where to start?

"You’ll be familiar with the phrase “Jump the Shark”; it’s when a TV series is widely acknowledged to have become so unbelievable that it’s obviously lost the plot. It derives from an episode of “Happy Days”, when Fonzie literally jumps a shark filled tank on his motorbike. Apparently.

"So anyway, after 60 per cent votes for sure fire election losers, IRA-supporting Shadow Chancellors and Scottish Labour unnecessarily splitting the party on issues over which it has no responsibility, we have a Shadow Minister telling “Stop the War” – a madcap coalition of trots, Islamists and anti-west fury chimps – that Labour will consult them on how it will vote on Syria.

"So that’s it. Labour has jumped the shark. It has gone from 'a bit bonkers' to 'irredeemable' in the space of a single day. And I give up. That’s it for me. Giving. Up. Goodbye.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...to-consult-Stop-The-War-on-Syria-bombing.html
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FFS, even Cameron would've offered a more reasonable & civilised point of view than that 'Labour man'.
 
SteveJ said:
FFS, even Cameron would've offered a more reasonable & civilised point of view than that 'Labour man'.
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In fairness he wrote it to his friends on Facebook, it wasn't a publicly released statement.

That said, "anti-west fury chimp" deserves a place in the modern lexicon.
 
bishblaize said:
In fairness he wrote it to his friends on Facebook, it wasn't a publicly released statement.

That said, "anti-west fury chimp" deserves a place in the modern lexicon.
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There's not a chance he didn't expect that to go public. He was most definetely putting it out there, appropriately in this case any Tom, Dick, or Harris can get in the paper these days criticising Corbyn.
 
Smores said:
There's not a chance he didn't expect that to go public. He was most definetely putting it out there, appropriately in this case any Tom, Dick, or Harris can get in the paper these days criticising Corbyn.
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If you say so.
 
Tom Harris has gone too far...
Im no Corbynista but when somebody lies you have to point it out
and what he said is an outright lie

fonz.jpg
The Fonze jumped the shark on water skis (complete with leather jacket) not on a bike...
The bit about the trotskyist fury chimps is spot on though
 
Untied said:
They themselves proclaim that everyone who joins the armed forces is a hero for doing so.
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That's just a vested interest to be fair and in the end for a good cause.

I used to get angry with this labelling of heroes but I came to realise it's all just vested interest whether it's politicians appearing to be patriotic, families wanting to justify the risks their loved ones take, or sadly giving justification/reason to their dead.

Does the labelling conviently mask that servicemen may become victims of political wars? Definetely, yet politicians can be challenged without taking away the illusion of heroism from those who need it.

Just read "good public servant" where you see Heroes, save the energy.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
I take it from your post that service in the military is not a worthwhile and honourable profession?




Ah, i never saw that else i'd have quoted you. The by-election has been set for Thursday the 3rd of December btw.

Despite her failure in this instance i think i will keep tabs on Godfrey, there being few political figures who advance disabled rights prominently.
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Jon Lansman, ally of Corbyn and founder of Momentum, has now told her to "get over herself". Nice bloke.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
Without meaning to be obtuse, appreciation for what exactly? Britain isn't under the threat of invasion, and hasn't been since world war two.
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The army protects Britain from it's enemies, both within it's shores and outside of them. Considering the way the world is going at the moment the enemy within the shores is probably more likely than outside. In fact, who's to say we haven't already been invaded.
 
Red Defence said:
The army protects Britain from it's enemies, both within it's shores and outside of them. Considering the way the world is going at the moment the enemy within the shores is probably more likely than outside. In fact, who's to say we haven't already been invaded.
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Anyone who isn't fecking barmy?
 
Ubik said:
Jon Lansman, ally of Corbyn and founder of Momentum, has now told her to "get over herself". Nice bloke.
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And linked to an article in which Godfrey is described as a "special snowflake", so just a touch condescending.
 
Drifter said:
There are many Sean Beans out there.Something the the so called centrists fail to grasp.
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Since about 1.4% (.8% voted for Corbyn) of the British electorate (or those who voted in May) voted in the election for Labour leader and virtually all public opinion polls show he's unpopular, I think it's unlikely he's got lots of "shy socialist" supporters.
 
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