It's also a obnoxious myth. As in - it's not happening and will not happen.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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I agree but I thought it was worth a try since this person was voting Green.
Turns out all it takes to not vote for potentially radical left government is feeling a bit uncomfortable with Corbyn. Next up why the left shouldn't vote for Bernie Sanders because he is against open borders.
Christ it's like deal with a bunch of children.
He's never led anything before becoming Labour leader. He's a life long rebel. He be a disaster for UK.
Is Jeremy Corbyns labour what's best for this country going forward?
I think large parts of Europe and North America will be ok. And that's about it.
The competence of the leader is totally a reason to vote for or against them. The thing I never get from you is the possibility that Corbyn just might be the problem for a lot of people. If you ditched him you would massively improve your chance of getting in. Doesn't that matter more that one individual?
Best out of 3?
Are people not allowed to change their minds, now that they know a lot more about the realities of a hard Brexit? It seems to me that many of the people who oppose a 2nd referendum are scared of the truth being exposed ... namely that a majority of people now don't want to exit from the EU.
And some of the people opposed to 2nd referendum are using veiled threats of neo-fascist violence - coupled with talk of "treason" - in their attempts to stop another referendum. These are the people who are the real threats to democracy.
Nigel Farage has said he would, “don khaki, pick up a rifle and head for the front lines” if a Brexit is not delivered to his satisfaction.
Exactly. It's incitement, and would be stamped out if it came from a left-wing popular movement.
we don't have a disaster now?
Real Labour that will help save the Welfare State. So Yes.
Not that I don't think Campbell's a cnut, mind, but not exactly the PR the party should be going for right now when it's their own fault they got thumped.
I have yet to hear a convincing argument against a second referendum.
The attitude of leavers seems to solely revolve around them "winning", as though it was an inconsequential talent show vote.
You genuinely think Campbell VOTING for another party and then repeatedly saying so and Corbyn congratulating someone is the same thing? Like, seriously?
It's pretty fecking hilarious watching the very people who've screamed loudest about entryist plots for years, suddenly having no issue with people who support other parties remaining in Labour.
People don't automatically owe Labour their vote. You have to convince them. This is an arrogance that's existed in both wings of the party and especially in Scotland - as if by virtue of simply being the Labour Party left-wing people are obliged to vote for them, irrespective of the leadership in question or the policies being promoted. Being annoyed with people because they decide they won't automatically accept whatever Corbyn says or does won't work.
To some people Brexit is something that's inherently going to damage the working people of Britain by inflicting misery and pain on them if we opt for a No Deal. Until now Corbyn has been largely silent on this process. Until now we were told that was due to pragmatism and opportunism but now Labour still aren't winning anything it's clear that strategy was a bit of a dud. And yes, there are significant portions of Labour heartlands that support Brexit, but ultimately the majority of the party's voters support remaining in the EU and they have viable alternatives to opt for if Labour don't represent them. Again there's an arrogance here wherein Labour expect the majority of their voters to just suck it up and vote for them no matter what even if their most significant issues aren't addressed. And the reason some of those Labour heartlands are arguably supporting Brexit is because as leader Corbyn hasn't attempted to change or shift the narrative in the same way he (quite successfully) did with austerity. A leader who was brought in to argue for radical change has basically pretended the countries most important issue doesn't exist and has done nothing to impose his own viewpoint on it. A capable political leader should be trying to shape arguments in that regard.
Just as you're saying we won't see a left-wing government without people voting Labour, a substantial number of people just don't regard it as possible to achieve one when Corbyn is in charge. He's lost any goodwill he ever had over Brexit, he's historically unpopular for an opposition leader to the point where even now May often still outranks him, and he's remarkably prone to PR gaffes. He's spent the vast majority of his tenure behind in the polls and the strategy that was supposed to help him in the long-term (being silent on Brexit) is being exposed as a sham. What route to power does he have now other than being able to luck out on the system with 30% of the vote (being optimistic) in a GE if the Tories/Brexit Party both finish on a similar tally?
Plenty of Labour leftists voted Green before Corbyn came into power, but most Labour leftists would've been happy to see them involved in the party because they shared similar views. I'm struggling to see how it's different - if Corbyn's a Labour MP/member and is expected to commit to that party, why he is congratulating a verifiable lunatic for winning another seat?
Labour don't have the numbers to be operating purges right now, they need to be winning back people who defected in the EU elections if they ever hope to win a GE. Campbell is an utter cnut but there is far more to expel him for than not voting Labour is an election where Labour's approach was beyond embarrassing.
And swathes of them were kicked out for publically supporting Green Party policies by sharing their posts on social media. I don't remember Campbell and the moderates having much to say about those.
I think so.
The UK ranks number 1 in Europe in inequality. It desperately needs at the very least basic social democracy - NHS Funding, Living Wage, Strong Union Rights, Nationalisation of some industry,free tuterion etc. All of this would instantly improve the country.
I've been stuck many a times in line at the job centre seeing people next to me in tears and hyperventilating due to fear that their disability benefits will be taken away or seeing people who have been failed by the state so badly that they can't read or write, not to forget sheer level of dehumanisation that happens at these places. Just ending the use of food banks would vastly improve the lives of millions.
But if this was all there was to the current Labour program, a harp back to old Attlee government then I wouldn't care too much if left leaning people went off and voted for parties like the Greens but its not. Within the current Labour Party there is the potential to go beyond this basic social democracy I mentioned.
- 4 Day Working Week
- Green New Deal
- Ending Immigration Detention Centres
- 10% Of Company Shares Going To Workers
- Preston Model
- Anti Imperialist Foreign Policy
But I know the only way to achieve the aims I listed above or any polices green voters want is through organising and mobilising the british workforce. It really is the only option we have, there can be no radical change in Britain without a workers movement.
The Labour Party for all it's faults(And there's plenty)it is the tool to which the british workforce have historical organising and mobilised itself to change Britain.
I mean you're proving my point here - by kicking out Green voters Campbell and the moderates proved how out of touch they were with a lot of the party base and they were swiftly booted out of power.
No that wasn't Campbell, that was the previous administration involved in compliance whilst Corbyn was leader. The one that the moderates were very sad to see go. Did I miss Campbell and co's passionate defence of those people and how kicking them out was appalling? Because they seem very passionate about it today.
Watson was obviously too busy taking members to court to stop them voting for the candidate he didn't want to win, so he couldn't be reached for comment.
No, of course not. Because they're power-hungry hypocrites. I don't deny that. I dislike the Blairite wing of the party a lot more than the Corbynite wing. But if your line of defence for Corbyn is that the others are bigger cnuts then that's not much of a defence.
No, my "line of defence" is that the exact same rules that lead to people being kicked out before are now applying to Campbell. He didn't give a toss then, certainly not to a point where he called for them to be changed, so I'm seriously struggling to care now.
Are you even reading my posts ?
The reason I said just suck it up and vote labour is because todays Labour Party offers a actual left program. One of the reasons Scottish Labour was during the New Labour years it never put forward a left wing platform, right ? Plus you lot are still messing around with the silly nationalism shtick.(I'm making a joke)
As for the rest, Corbyn right now literally supports a people vote, so just take the win. If people are going to get all pissy and like children because Corbyn didn't attend their god awful marches, he didn't paint the EU flag on his face or because Alastair Campbell has gotten kicked out of the party, then I'm going to say they are acting a bit silly.
Any predictions right now are just pointless. The Brexit Party hasn't even got a manifest for feck sake.
Remarkable the speed at which Labour can expel a member when they want to.
There was an interesting report about the bottlenecks in previous expulsions - the process sped up after the appointment of someone in 2018, who replaced someone who had been in charge from 2011 (clearly the previous one wasn't a Corbyn appointee)
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/leaked-emails-reveal-labours-compliance-unit-took-months-to
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How long do you think watching him saying he voted Lib Dem on BBC takes? Or listening to him say it on LBC?
Even yesterday he was incredibly reluctant to back one outright - his rhetoric still very much indicated it was if we don't get a deal, or if we don't get a GE. Even though both of those things look almost impossible at this point. Naturally people aren't going to trust him as a champion of the Remain cause.
Take it to another thread.
Good riddance to Campbell. For ever sniping on the sidelines with his partner in crime Blair. Maybe he can help "Change UK" with their image ,because he is totally irrelevant to the Labour Party.
Yes, let’s all be right on and demonise those Blairites.
I’d have thought the centre is the only sensible place to be?
Honestly, to hear people wax lyrical on here about the lurch to the left under Corbyn, I can only imagine people on here cannot remember (or are too young to remember) “the good old days” of the late 1970s?
There is a reason Thatcher mopped up for a decade with her lurch to the right you know?
I’d even question the need for Labour to exist at all these days.
May as well go back to the Liberals as it was before Labour effectively split the centre left vote for the last century. Union power & the great working class collective? Hahaha. Yeah. Good one. We tried that. Worked out great that did. Still does work out if you are a Tube Train driver.
Really overwhelmed by how much the Torries have done for the country.
As if gutting benefits was not enough, they gave us Brexit.
Onwards and upwards.
As if gutting benefits was not enough, they gave us Brexit.
Onwards and upwards.
Because there are two end to a continuum it does not mean the centre is best. Many will not remember the late 70s, but I think it's fair to assume that civil and worker's rights have improved since the, let's say, 1870s and that is surely due to the movements of the left. Of course, unfettered and unchecked dogmatic ideology on side of the spectrum spells disaster, but that's not what people mean by moving to the left under Corbyn.
The “centre” may offer lukewarm & safe solutions to things, but (Brexit aside?) it’s generally where the votes are won. Unless that is, one side fecks up royally & gives the other side an open goal to move toward the extremes (Thatcher, after the Winter of Discontent).
Like I said, a lot of that isn’t fresh in the mind to a lot on here. The only reason Corbyn polled like he did last time out (GE) was because of his promises to the Student vote. Students, who back in the day, certainly didn’t live the Old Labour dream.
I’d ditch the Labour party & just have the Liberals. I’m struggling to see the relevance in them these days & the Brexit saga has shone another spotlight on that.
That's heavily overstated, you can't get to 40% of the vote on the back of students. It certainly helped up the enthusiasm and win some seats in uni towns, but the bigger reasons for the result were that people under 60 generally were tired of spending cuts, and didn't want to give the Tories the big majority they had been widely expected to get to push through their version of Brexit (and the Tories having the worst campaign in living memory also helped).
Labour won students. They also won part-time workers. They also won full-time workers. They also won the unemployed. They lost only one group - retired people.
It's leaving a really bad taste here with Labour, they can find a way to kick a member out quickly when it comes down to declaring vote but when it's anything anti-semitic then it seems like they're happy to drag their feet or defend those members. Unbelievable.
Corbyn's silence and sitting on the fence mantra is getting old quickly and it's clear that if they're going to change any downturn, then removing him as leader is the first step in a very long recovery process.
The Liberals are not a party of the left really though are they? And Labour's voting share suggests they are relevant. I'm sure that you don't like them, which is fine.
Personally, from my political perspective, the votes are won nationally seemingly by being on the right of the spectrum.
This resulted in a Labour party going to the right to win in England, resulting in the eventual collapse of the Labour vote in Scotland, followed by a succession of harrowing increasingly right wing governments resulting in a Britain that is riven with inequality and rancour and where the extreme right is once again beginning to get a foothold.