Looks like Oscar is being vindicated, despite all the shit that was flying in his direction.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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His only hope is that the conservatives do as bad a job as they did last time... and frankly id be shocked if they have not learnt their lesson and they will keep may out of the way and let the dog whistle politics of populism and anti immigration do its thing.
In ordinary times the Tory war machine would have destroyed Corbyn and McDonnell, but they were too distracted by Brexit and their own internal battles. It's quite possible they will be next time as well though, with the added possibility that the economy might have nosedived due to Brexit. Corbyn could get lucky yet.
Well played.
That's brilliant.
Can it be true? Is today really the day?
FFS!
FFS!
What is this then, Jeremy? How does he keep making unforced errors like this to give further ammunition to his haters? A simple google search could tell him that the people killed were soldiers from different parts of India and it's not violence that killed these people but a terrorist attack. What does he mean he stands with the people of Kashmir, it's a part of India ffs..
Utter buffoonery.
I know nothing about Kashmir or India...why is this so bad? How is it different to, say, something happening in California and a politician saying they stand with the people of California? Or an attack in Paris seeing world leaders send their condolences to the people of Paris?
So 7 members have left including Chuka and I'm sure more will follow .
Hard to see where Labour goes from here . Corbyn will go down as a guy who blew the easiest chance ever of becoming Prime Minister because of his knack of offering nothing when pressed and then when he did say something offered just nonsense
Hard to see where Labour goes from here . Corbyn will go down as a guy who blew the easiest chance ever of becoming Prime Minister because of his knack of offering nothing when pressed and then when he did say something offered just nonsense
He didn't say they were from Kashmir, just that the incident took place there.
A terrorist attack is violence
Regarding the third bolded bit
If you know nothing, then Google it.
So is it you can’t give an explanation to someone who asks a genuine question or you just don’t want to?
He’s probably alluding to the territorial disputes and that Corbyn by saying he stands with the people of Kashmir he’s somehow saying it’s not part of India. He’s taking offence at things that weren’t there.
To be fair, it is quite a good example of Corbyn's tendency to stick his foot in it. It's not as though he tweets about every act of terrorism, anywhere in the world. So it is depressingly typical that when he does stick his head above the parapet he ends up pissing a bunch of people off. I know nothing about the sensitivies here but someone with Corbyn's aspirations certainly should. And it's better to say nothing at all than wade into an obviously contentious issue like this with an ambiguously worded tweet, surely?
Does violence equate to terrorist attack?
Kashmir is a disuputed territory. It is in part occupied by Pakistan, India and China.
From the year 1000-1300 Kashmir was part of a Hindu kingdom.
From 1300-1820 It was part of various Muslim kingdoms.
From 1820-1846 It became part of the Sikh Empire.
When the British invaded India - they attacked the Sikh empire and took Kashmir, awarding it thier laptop who fought alongside them, and created the Dogra dynasty in 1846.
At this point Kashmir was a majority Muslim state and the people of Kashmir continued to resist the Dogra rule for the next 100 years. 100 years down the line the British left and during their "partition" gave the princely states of British India (one of which was Kashmir) the option to join either Pakistan, India or stay independent. The oppresive hindu ruler of Kashmir at the time decided to stay independent, but then later sided with India (against the wishes of the muslim majority population of his state).
This led to huge anti state riots followed by invasion by tribal fighters from Pakistan, which led to the indian army getting involved, and then the Pakistanis. This then led to 3 full scale wars, 2 localised ones, and a militant uprising from 198something to 2003 followed by another one in 2016.
Hundreds of thousands of Kashmiri's have been killed, Kashmir has become the most militarised zone in the world, it has 700,000 Indian armed personnel, it has mass graves, forced disappearances, systematic rape, stone throwing crowds, a policy of beatings and blinding and generally no peace.
There is a UN resolution calling for a referendum to allow the people of the region to decide their fate, which goes ignored by all involved.
Last year nearly 500 people were killed in Kashmir by Indian army, this year started off the same way, but a few days ago a suicide bomber attacked an Indian army convoy and killed 44 soldiers.
He often sticks his foot in it but I think he worded it ambiguously precisely to avoid offending anyone. Just stating his sympathies with the people of Kashmir. I don’t think he could have made the tweet any more benign. You’re right off course that he doesn’t tweet about every terrorist act and he could have avoided it completely, I’m not on twitter so I don’t know how often he tweets with regards to specific terrorist attacks, I was just commenting on the tweet in isolation.
A car is a form of transport. A form of transport isn’t always a car. Edit: I think I misunderstood what you were saying. But imo yes it does, when covering terrorist attacks it’ll often be referred to as violence.
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Kashmir is another British success story.
Went back through his tweets since the beginning of this month. It's the only tweet regarding terrorism. Quick google reveals at least one other terrorist massacre this month. Then you have the language he used. Specifically avoiding any use of the word "terrorism" and how he stands with the "people of Kashmir" (in a region that a number of countries claim sovereignty over) when the people who died were all Indian citizens. As you can see in the various threads on redcafe this is a seriously contentious issue, which triggers strong emotions in people of Indian or Pakistani descent (i.e. a decent chunk of the UK electorate)
Bearing in mind the Labour party is currently already in the process of tearing itself apart; his decision to tweet about this incident, in the way that he did, is another great example of his uncanny knack for creating divisiveness when unity is needed, now more than ever. What you want from an opposition Labour leader is someone who can heal divisions and bring all the party members together to rally round and oust the Tories. Time and time again, Corbyn fails the basics of this job description.
I think you are trivialising the incident by saying it's just violence. The same thing that Corbyn did in that tweet of his.
Thank you for that information!
Of course I have my bias, i am a Kashmiri who has family who currently reside in the Pakistani side, after fleeing the violence of partition on what is now the Indian side.
Indians will claim that Kashmir is no longer disputed because the then leader of Kashmir asceded the territory to India and that's just how life goes. They'll also claim that the militant uprisings are supported and sponsored by Pakistan (somewhat true though Pakistan officially denies it). They'll also claim that Pakistan agreed during one of the wars/treaties between the countries to settle the matter between the two countries - therefore the UN has no role to play anymore (of course nobody asked anyone Kashmiri about that).
When you consider how Brexit is going, you can see why Partition happened as it did.
I apologize for being snarky in my previous post. It wasn't my intention but I'm getting Kashmir overload everywhere. I'd say it's not a trivial topic and I would actively advice against you taking any explanation you find here (Especially people like @Zlatattack @VidaRed or myself because we tend to be partial)
My point about Corbyn is it is a self inflicted own goal. He had no reason to put that tweet there, especially one that is painfully vague. As UK's leader of opposition and a person with some responsibility for international relations, the tweet is beyond stupid. It does nothing to either address the historical issues around Kashmir or address the immediate tragedy which is a crime against the Indian army. It further gives ammunition to his detractors that he's soft on terrorism, especially from certain religious groups.
As Zlatattack has pointed out, it's a heavily biased version of events. Unfortunately, my version will also be heavily biased.
I wouldn't have used heavily. Google is all our friend.
When you are biased, it's very difficult to measure the level of bias. Say someone starts with the Exodus of Kashmiri Hindus, no doubt you will say it's heavily biased.
What I wanted to say essentially.
Interesting post, I agree with a lot of it, I’ll post my full thoughts when I’m back from work mate.
It’s not my intention to trivialise anything, what happened in Kashmir and is happening is heartbreaking.
Thank you for the reply, I can understand where you’re coming from regarding the tweet, I guess what I saw as being vague in order to appease all parties, can also be easily seen as inflammatory/insulting by others, especially given Corbyn’s history.
Fair enough! My initial question was not a challenge of your position and I’m sure it is an emotional one...I was just curious why you thought what you thought. I like to ask people from the region involved their views, even if they are biased it is useful to understand what it is they believe
I'll just say that he isn't appeasing all parties with that tweet for obvious reasons. Unwanted attention too, he could have let that slide and no one would have noticed with all the Brexit noise.
Out of interest, if you were in his position and wanted to convey sympathies, what would you have written? (Ignore that he could have said nothing)
Not sure why silence is not an option, but if I had to write something, I thought of this in a couple of minutes without any PR delegation.
"I condemn the cowardly terrorist attack in Kashmir. Our hearts go out to the families of the bereaved. I call for an immediate de-escalation of violence and urge all parties to redouble their efforts for a long standing resolution through negotiations"
I like it, reads better than his anyway. Going from that, am I right to assume your main problems with the original tweet (again ignoring that he could have chosen to say nothing) was that he didn’t specify it was terrorist related violence, the I stand with the people of Kashmir remark and his mention of British government playing a role in a possible resolution?
Meanwhile
He was re-admitted in September 2018 according to his wiki page
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Hatton
If you're looking for an unbiased version of the Kashmir mess then I think @2cents might be able to provide it.
As @fishfingers15 mentioned, the Indians and Pakistanis on here won't be able to provide it, with the exception of @Sultan, probably.
As @fishfingers15 mentioned, the Indians and Pakistanis on here won't be able to provide it, with the exception of @Sultan, probably.