trying to dismiss*
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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I have gone a bit, thanks for your patience.It isn't really possible to see neoliberalism as a big threat to society and at the same time champion someone who thinks the best thing to do now is to undertake the biggest neoliberal-to-its-core political insurgency perhaps in modern political history.
Neoliberalism is always used without context. Unless someone is prompted or quizzed as to its meaning, as above. It's always used by Corbyn supporters. Nobody else ever really uses that word. It's a buzzword. It's trendy. It's in vogue in those circles. It's no coincidence that not so long ago you could observe hours and hours of political debate and not once hear that word uttered and now almost every time a Corbynista speaks they're citing the word.
And so we have the contradiction of his supporter base being obsessed with this word that's the latest fad: neoliberalism - yet simultaneously possess almost ambivalence to the greatest example of neoliberal subversion that we are ever likely to see. Or at the very least they support the idea that this neoliberal utopia is inevitable so he's right to do little to stop it (after all it's what the people voted for) and we should instead move on and accept the real fight to be had is against.....oh, neoliberalism.
Neoliberalism is always used without context. Unless someone is prompted or quizzed as to its meaning, as above. It's always used by Corbyn supporters. Nobody else ever really uses that word. It's a buzzword. It's trendy. It's in vogue in those circles. It's no coincidence that not so long ago you could observe hours and hours of political debate and not once hear that word uttered and now almost every time a Corbynista speaks they're citing the word.
And so we have the contradiction of his supporter base being obsessed with this word that's the latest fad: neoliberalism - yet simultaneously possess almost ambivalence to the greatest example of neoliberal subversion that we are ever likely to see. Or at the very least they support the idea that this neoliberal utopia is inevitable so he's right to do little to stop it (after all it's what the people voted for) and we should instead move on and accept the real fight to be had is against.....oh, neoliberalism.
good point, we should vote for labour centrists or the lib dems who actively support free market deregulation and privatisation instead
Okay, I'm sorry. You definitely know what neoliberal means. It's definitely a complete coincidence that only Corbyn supporters use that word. And there's definitely not a contradiction between seeing neoliberalism as a threat to society and thinking "Brexit must happen" is something someone really opposed to neoliberalism would say.
It's a word that's been around for a long time. I've got a lot to criticise Corbyn on but you're making stuff up here. A move towards increasing nationalisation and opposition to rampant free-market capitalism is clearly anti-neoliberalism. That's not hard to grasp. Although at this point I'm confused as to whether you think Corbyn's too left-wing, whether you don't think he's left-wing enough, or if you'll happily criticise him on anything at all.
Out of interest, if Corbyn's polling really started to improve over the next couple of months and he built up a steady lead, would your stance change?
Again, I can see your point now. The best way to oppose free market deregulation and privatisation is to refuse to oppose the path that Liam Fox, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Boris Johnson wish to take.
Because if there's one thing Labour can do to avoid complete deregulation it's decide that it's definitely the right thing to do to assume Michael Gove has that covered, and move onto other more important things.
Have you ever thought about why so many Labour members, a majority of who despise Brexit, gave Corbyn such a big mandate? Have you considered that, despite being at odds on such a big issue, the alternative is worse for them?
that's not what labour is doing though, your absolutely boi Vince Cable is one of the major reasons the ERG's amendments passed. He thought it was be a better use of his time to explore the option of starting a new party than going to parliament and voting against it.
I can't help but notice that you respond to posts very, very quickly. Yet it took fifteen minutes earlier to go from being asked what neoliberal means to coming back with a definition.
I'm a disgusting smoker who fecks off outside every so often - for future reference.
He was popular enough to force a hung parliament, the blarites were convinced he'd lead Labour to a wipe out
Israel has the fullest support from the west, only the mildest critism is ever leveled and little action taken to constrain its treatmemt towards the Palestinians. Why would Israel be interested in a peace deal when it's under so little pressure?
It's not talking to the Palestinians that is preventing a peace deal
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Cheers. Thought I recognised the tone.
He finished second in a race where his main opposition shot them self in the foot....
Oooooooh Jeremy corbyn.... Oooooooh Jeremy Corbyn (fade to a second electoral defeat in a few years)
As shite as the Tories were they still got way more positive press and spent way more money
On and on it goes.
He forced a hung parliament despite back stabbing from blairites in his own party and a ridiculous press campaign against him, one that seems to still be ongoing.
If you don't like the bloke then fair enough, that's democracy. But to write off what he achieved during that election is such an over simplistic manner is a bit much.
Yes it's true, those four accounts with about 2000 followers between them are truly representative of the few hundred thousand people who've joined Labour since 2015. Especially the last one which has 13 followers and whose last tweet before that one was in 2013.
Ssshhhh Oscie doesn't look beyond writing of any kind. Especially if it's in the mail or the telegraph
So you need to have a lot of followers and a long tweeting history to have a valid opinion these days? Modern life is bollocks.
I thought the Last Leg make jokes about everyone?
It's more that if you want to make a generalisation about a group of people based on 4 tweets and be taken seriously you should make an effort to choose tweets that demonstratively represent that group of people. Although maybe that's too much to expect given the poster.
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But it wasn't just four Tweets. Anyone can go on social media and see the response. It was intended to be representative - and it was. There are hundreds and hundreds of humourless, po-faced reaction, and there always is whenever there's a piece of lampooning of the Dear Leader. Look at the response to the Tracy Ulman sketch a few weeks back. It's the same response whenever there's an interview, or news piece. Anything that isn't sycophancy is not tolerated by these people. Demonstrated over and over again.
It isn't normal or healthy to treat a politician like that.
It isn't normal or healthy to treat a politician like that.
I remember the SWP when I was at uni. Humourless sad sacks, the lot of them.
To match anecdotes with anecdotes, I follow a broad swathe of people on twitter which includes a lot of the 'famous' left-wing Labour affiliated folks and a huge number of broadly left-wing folk who feel that Corbyn brought them/brought them back into the Labour camp. Not a single one of them has mentioned The Last Leg. Of the people I follow on Twitter I'd say a majority of the ones who mention politics are 'pro-Corbyn', and yet the first i heard of the Last Leg stuff was when I logged onto the forum and saw you talking about the alleged Corbynite overreaction to it. Almost as if your idea of what a current Labour supporter looks like is a strawman you've constructed from selectively picked twitter accounts
It's not anecdotal, it's widespread, observable behavior that is displayed time and time again whenever Corbyn is questioned. This is the thing with Corbyn supporters the only reality they'll accept is the one they like. So we have to pretend that his previous links, associations and praise for terrorist organisations doesn't matter, because the real truth is "he's a man of peace". We can't observe his utterly disastrous record when it comes to success in pushing the party's narrative on any issue you care to name, because that's a "smear". We can't mention that. We we're not allowed to believe that the irreparable damage he's doing to Labour's standing within the Jewish community by not fully adopting the IHRA defined examples of anti-antisemitism.
We're only allowed to look at the polls if they show Labour in the lead, and with that we're not even allowed to notice that a within-margin-of-error poll lead for an opposition vs a mid-term govt in power for 8 years that has the record, division and widespread unpopularity of the govt, whose flagship policy idea 70% of the population thinks is "doing badly" - isn't particularly great.
We're only allowed to look at the polls if they show Labour in the lead, and with that we're not even allowed to notice that a within-margin-of-error poll lead for an opposition vs a mid-term govt in power for 8 years that has the record, division and widespread unpopularity of the govt, whose flagship policy idea 70% of the population thinks is "doing badly" - isn't particularly great.
Yeah, I really hope some posters on here don’t represent the majority of voters in the UK. If the UK go from a disastrous Brexit (looking more likely with each passing day) to this man as the next PM, I think the UK will be in serious trouble.
We're not supposed to notice Brexit is disastrous because otherwise it might draw attention to the fact Corbyn is out of step with the vast majority of the membership and support on this issue. Even suggestions Momentum might get behind the idea of supporting a second referendum. Funny thing then, or course, will be how quickly Momentum go from being Corbyn's cheerleaders to being accused of being neoliberal, Blairite scum by the real hardcore fanatics.
"We will leave the EU, SM and CU and retain the benefits" is apparently effectively opposing a govt policy of leaving the EU, SM and CU and retaining the benefits. The impressive thing is the amount of noise generated by those whose credibility relies on you believing the above are two completely different policies. It's difficult, which is why Brexit is the last thing his supporters want to talk about.
I'm a bit confused what you're upset with here? Some people having a different opinion to yourself and having the temerity to share said opinion on social media? I haven't watched The Last Leg for a long time because I'd rather swan dive off the high platform into an Olympic pool filled with Jurgen Klopp's old teeth than listen to Josh Widdecombe struggle to mumble his basic bitch jokes out of his stuffy nose so I can't comment on the content of the outrage but you seem to be exasperated that a section of a political party you are no longer a member of get behind and support the leader of the party they vote for.
But what are we allowed to notice and discuss? The things he's said, the company he has kept or the policy positions he holds are completely off the table. So no IRA or Hamas links, no noticing how relaxed he is with sharing platforms with antisemitism and no observing he's aligned with the Tory hard right on the fundamentals of the EU debate. Even how he performs as leader is a no-go. People who want the party to oppose the Tories more effectively are "Tories"
We have the country about to be driven over the edge of a cliff by the government and an opposition leader about whom we're not allowed to observe anything except for how well attended his rallies are.
We have the country about to be driven over the edge of a cliff by the government and an opposition leader about whom we're not allowed to observe anything except for how well attended his rallies are.
Yeah but Blair and Iraq.... Oooooooh Jeremy Corbyn.... Oooooooh Jeremy Corbyn etc
The echo chamber is going to be full of butt hurt when he gashes up the next election
They'll point to some materially irrelevant statistic such as "He secured the highest first-time vote share of everyone under the age of 26 of any leader ever" and once again find cause to chink glasses in celebration as a Tory waltzes into No 10, much like they did last time.
Sweet seeing Oscie and Sun-Tzu together in their echo chamber... They know EVERYTHING!
That'd be shit even for a Daily Mail comment section response. Also 'echo chamber' joins 'neoliberalism' on the list of things Corbyn supporters say without knowing what it means.
Two people agreeing isn't an 'echo chamber'.
Well thank God we’ve the likes of you to constantly educate us. Nothing beats being told what I supposedly think by you.
I'm not telling you what you think, I'm telling you that you're wrong. There's a difference.
Really? Corbyn’s criticisms of the government’s Brexit negotiations have been limited at best. I don’t think I’ve ever seen him in the news criticising the government’s lack of progress towards a deal.
He’s just not interested in the mechanics of the process, despite the government sleep walking towards a catastrophic no-deal outcome. If you think his referendum campaign was acceptable (I don’t), then this should have been crystallised by his stupid ‘trigger article 50 now’ comment.
He's just a populist, that's all he is. Populism suffers from the same issue left or right, offering simple solutions for often complex problems.
It pains me so many on the left can't see the issues with him. He's a man stuck in the 70's, yeah some of the stuff he says sounds good. Rebalancing the economy? Yeah, great. How's he going to do that though? Well he talks about bringing those low wage jobs back to Britain so either those low wage workers need to get used to be paid £3 an hour or he's not going to be able to achieve it. And let's not forget this is a man who called for the enacting of Article 50 pretty much quicker than anyone in politics - the day after the referendum. Brexit is far more damaging to everyone is this country than pretty much anything else he advocates, yet he's happy to go along with it so his wet dreams can possibly be achieved (which they never will - the direction of post Brexit Britain is in the hands of the Tories). He's a man who hasn't really changed his opinions on absolutely anything since the 70's, some admire him as principled, I see a man who just quite frankly doesn't seem very intelligent and who the world left behind years ago. He's basically just offering the left wing version of Trump, more polite and less abrasive sure, but promising to his support a world that cannot be achieved.
Whilst on his support, the Trump supporters of the left. It's startling how similar they are. Conspiracies over the media, the cult of personality, any criticism is made up by someone from the other side, justification for anything and everything.
It pains me so many on the left can't see the issues with him. He's a man stuck in the 70's, yeah some of the stuff he says sounds good. Rebalancing the economy? Yeah, great. How's he going to do that though? Well he talks about bringing those low wage jobs back to Britain so either those low wage workers need to get used to be paid £3 an hour or he's not going to be able to achieve it. And let's not forget this is a man who called for the enacting of Article 50 pretty much quicker than anyone in politics - the day after the referendum. Brexit is far more damaging to everyone is this country than pretty much anything else he advocates, yet he's happy to go along with it so his wet dreams can possibly be achieved (which they never will - the direction of post Brexit Britain is in the hands of the Tories). He's a man who hasn't really changed his opinions on absolutely anything since the 70's, some admire him as principled, I see a man who just quite frankly doesn't seem very intelligent and who the world left behind years ago. He's basically just offering the left wing version of Trump, more polite and less abrasive sure, but promising to his support a world that cannot be achieved.
Whilst on his support, the Trump supporters of the left. It's startling how similar they are. Conspiracies over the media, the cult of personality, any criticism is made up by someone from the other side, justification for anything and everything.