Do you not think he could have been more open about it in the last few days or at least try to control the narrative? Saying words to the effect that he has always supported the cause of the Palestinians/NI Republicans and that has entailed meeting people whose methods he does not endorse. In the context of the wreath affair (which I fully recognise is driven by the right wing media), he has come across as evasive and shifty, almost trying to disassociate himself from his years as a fringe rebel. For a politician for whom authenticity is his main selling point, it’s not a good look. And there will be plenty more of this stuff to deal with up to the next general election.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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Do you not think he could have been more open about it in the last few days or at least try to control the narrative? Saying words to the effect that he has always supported the cause of the Palestinians/NI Republicans and that has entailed meeting people whose methods he does not endorse. In the context of the wreath affair (which I fully recognise is driven by the right wing media), he has come across as evasive and shifty, almost trying to disassociate himself from his years as a fringe rebel. For a politician for whom authenticity is his main selling point, it’s not a good look. And there will be plenty more of this stuff to deal with up to the next general election.
The Labour manifesto last year promised to carry out Brexit. Yes it disagreed with the Tory proposals and wanted a change of priorities but the direction of travel was Brexit nonetheless. So unless you're saying Corbyn disagreed with his own manifesto then he is a Brexiter.
I was arguing against the notion that he was a hardcore brexiteer before the ref, and that he's given the government a free pass.
Yeah I would completely agree with this. He's handling of these types of situation hasn't been great at all and I think it's due to this wishy washing respond of - well I don't think I was attending the ceremony stuff etc , which as you said is almost him trying to disassociate himself. The part Corbyn looked the best during the wreath stuff was him taking the pro active step and pointing out the Palestinian deaths that have happened after the criticism from Netanyahu.
Trying to avoiding this types of conversations while understandable won't help him.
Ah right, I agree he's not given the government a free pass as such, but he's still committed to Brexit, just a different sort of Brexit. What he actually believes himself is hard to say, he's from the wing of the party that in 70s and 80s were hardcore brexiteers, but he may not have felt that strongly himself, or he may have changed his mind. Who knows, but a little over a year since the last election I assume his manifesto position still stands.
Why wouldn’t Corbyn be pro-brexit? I thought it was well known that he’s always been anti-Europe
His handling of the media has not been good at all and his media team are constantly fighting fires. His message is muddled and unclear, he keeps getting caught in these kind of awkward situations due to his links to various groups and really as a result he is not capable or not being allowed to do a good job as opposition leader. Whether all this is his fault, the media's fault or his team's fault I don't know but if things do not change dramatically he is a total non-entity as far as holding the government to account is concerned at a time when we need it most.
He campaigned for and voted Remain.
I wonder if he had two speeches prepared, like Boris?
- Jeremy Corbyn voted for Britain to leave the European Economic Community (EEC) in the 1975 European referendum.
- Jeremy Corbyn opposed the creation of the European Union (EU) under the Maastricht Treaty – speaking and voting against it in Parliament in 1993. During the 2016 referendum campaign, Left Leave highlighted repeated speeches he made in Parliament opposing Europe during 1993.
- Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Lisbon Treaty on more than one occasion in Parliament in 2008.
- In 2010, Jeremy Corbyn voted against the creation of the European Union’s diplomatic service.
- Jeremy Corbyn voted for a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU in 2011 (breaking the Labour whip to do so).
- In 2011 Jeremy Corbyn also opposed the creation of the EU’s European Stability Mechanism, which helps members of the Euro in financial difficulties. (This vote is a good example of how Corbyn votes with hardcore Euro-sceptics. Only 26 other MPs joined him in voting against, and in their number are the likes of right-wing Euro-sceptics such as Peter Bone, Douglas Carswell, Bill Cash, Ian Paisley Junior and John Redwood.)
- Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain’s participation in the EU’s Banking Authority in 2012.
- In 2016 his long-time left-wing ally Tariq Ali said that he was sure that if Corbyn was not Labour leader he would be campaigning for Britain to leave the EU, whilst his brother Piers Corbyn also said that Jeremy Corbyn was privately opposed to Britain’s membership of the European Union.
- Jeremy Corbyn went on holiday during the 2016 referendum campaign and his office staff consistently undermined the Remain campaign. He refused to attend a key Remain campaign launch and also attacked government ministers for publicising the Remain case, saying they should also have promoted arguments in favour of Leave vote. The Director of the Remain campaign, himself a Labour member and candidate, said, “Rather than making a clear and passionate Labour case for EU membership, Corbyn took a week’s holiday in the middle of the campaign and removed pro-EU lines from his speeches”. During the referendum campaign, Leave.EU highlighted Corbyn’s attacks on Europe made in 1996.
- The day after the European referendum in 2016, Jeremy Corbyn called for the immediate invocation of Article 50 – the two-year notice to leave the EU – much quicker than even Theresa May wanted.
- In December 2016, Jeremy Corbyn voted in Parliament in favour of the UK leaving the EU and for the process to start no later than 31 March 2017.
- Jeremy Corbyn three times voted in February 2017 in favour of the Prime Minister starting the process of leaving the European Union.
- During the 2017 general election, the independent Channel 4 Factcheck service found very little difference between Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May over Europe.
- In the summer of 2017, Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain remaining in the Single Market. He even sacked from his team Labour MPs who voted in favour of membership of the Single Market.
...passionate remainer.
Showing support and solidarity with terrorist organisations is a true sign of a man of peace.
Yeah but brexit is Tony Blair's fault or summat and oooooooh Jeremy Corbyn oooooooh Jeremy Corbyn (fade to electoral defeat)
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Yet he has a record as long as your arm for voting against joining EU and pretty much everything since.
His campaign to remain was pathetic. a token joke because he thought that’s what labour voters wanted. He’s a car-crash of a leader
Well us why he's still the party leader and why Labour are top of the polls ? Also who do you think should replace this car crash of leader ?
The Labour Left has it's problems with it's dodgy links, in fighting etc but I'd take that over some dip shit liberals who think memorising a couple of Guardian opinion pieces equals political ideology.
Some things never change
They’re top of the polls because.. the Tories.
Unfortunately I don’t see any strong leaders anywhere in both main parties. Brexit has exposed many of them for being morons.
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How much more of an open goal does this government need to provide in order for Corbyn to be where he should be? It's incompetence on an industrial scale for any opposition vs this shambles not to be on course for an absolute stonking landslide. As it is poll leads that are within the statistical margin of error are actually being used to evidence how well things are going for him.
Labour should be 15-20 points ahead and would be under I think any of their 5 previous leaders.
Labour should be 15-20 points ahead and would be under I think any of their 5 previous leaders.
Should be some great conversations in a few years time. 'Dad, why did you vote for a political party with Brexit in it's manifesto and a Brexiter for leader?'. 'Because we understood the ideology son, that what mattered'.
"the world was burning and the lib dems were busy trying to form new parties and lecturing on homosexual sins, now shut up and eat aunt Margaret"
Labour remain was run by a bunch of Blairites who didn't think Corbyn was an asset. They only called for him at the end in a panic when they had bollocked up the entire campaign
Yeah, let's not blame the voters who voted for Brexit parties, let's blame those who voted for the one that was against. This ideology's hilarious ain't it?
I think it's Private Eye
Corbyn's attitudes to Europe seem fairly mixed - on the one hand I think he sees it as a fairly neoliberal organisation that undermines any nation states willingness to move towards socialism by supporting corporatism etc, but on the other hand I think he recognises that it has certain benefits which can protect workers against overtly right-wing governments who seek to undermine them, and that however much he may dislike the EU, leaving isn't really in our benefit at the moment.
I suspect his general attitude towards the EU has probably eased over the years - at the start the lefts opposition was much stronger to it, however as time have passed they've generally seen it as a lesser evil compared to various Tory governments who've been in power. A mixed attitude towards the EU isn't necessarily an awful thing - it's a huge organisation and so anyone who's got a unanimously positive or negative attitude in how they view it, unable to see its flaws or virtues at all, is probably blighted at best.
Nevertheless, his own attempts to argue against a hard Brexit have been somewhere between non-existent and meek, probably more down to pragmatism than anything else. Whether it's better for him to be a staunch left-wing Brexiteer or a pragmatist seceding to anti-immigrant sentiment for his own possible self-gain in the future depends on how you view him in general though. Neither option paints him in a great light.
I suspect his general attitude towards the EU has probably eased over the years - at the start the lefts opposition was much stronger to it, however as time have passed they've generally seen it as a lesser evil compared to various Tory governments who've been in power. A mixed attitude towards the EU isn't necessarily an awful thing - it's a huge organisation and so anyone who's got a unanimously positive or negative attitude in how they view it, unable to see its flaws or virtues at all, is probably blighted at best.
Nevertheless, his own attempts to argue against a hard Brexit have been somewhere between non-existent and meek, probably more down to pragmatism than anything else. Whether it's better for him to be a staunch left-wing Brexiteer or a pragmatist seceding to anti-immigrant sentiment for his own possible self-gain in the future depends on how you view him in general though. Neither option paints him in a great light.
I really wish this what what Corbyn actually did, since I believe that the key to moving that conflict towards a peaceful resolution is the promotion of mutual understanding and recognition of the conflicting narratives adhered to by each side.
That's not what Corbyn and the section of the left he's been involved with his entire career does though. Instead, they offer solidarity and legitimacy to all expressions of the Palestinian narrative, while completely denying and rejecting the Zionist narrative. So their 'criticism' of Israel goes beyond any specific Israeli policies or actions and portrays Zionism as inherently racist, colonialist, etc., basically illegitimate and beyond-the-pale (which is why Nazi analogies, which no serious person could consider legitimate, come so easily to them).
This refusal to consider the range of historical and contemporary factors which have made and continue to make Zionism appeal to so many Jews ultimately produces car crash interpretations of the 'Zionist endeavour' such as this; and it immediately signals to the vast majority of Jews in Israel (not to mention elsewhere) that there is no space for their narrative in your idea of a 'peaceful' Palestine, and that the key to achieving that peace is their defeat.
And, unless Corbyn is pulling them aside to tell them that empathy, negotiations, and non-violence are the way forward (does anybody actually believe this to be the case?), it encourages his Palestinian interlocutors in the belief that 'victory' (i.e. the defeat of Zionism) and not compromise is the only just path to peace.
Now you could argue that what Corbyn is doing is providing a counter-balance to a mainstream discourse in which it is the Palestinian narrative that is under-represented. But assuming this is true, it's (a) not what he claims to be doing, and (b) unclear how this helps the path to a negotiated peace, since it completely alienates one of the parties to the conflict.
Ultimately, despite all his platitudes, the brand of anti-Zionism which Corbyn and his associates adhere to is a hindrance to the pursuit of real peace over there. If he was honest, he'd just admit that it's a Palestinian victory he's interested in.
Can't imagine where they got that idea from
Corbyn was leader of the Labour party. Not some guy from accounts. And he went on fecking holiday during the campaign. This is the ultimate contradiction with Corbyn. He's supposedly both the leader of a major political party and also just some bloke about whom we shouldn't pay much attention to what he says, what he does, who he associates with or anything else. His supporters want him to be leader but not be treated like a leader. Questioning him on anything is a "smear", paying attention to what he says is a "smear", asking why he's doing things a leader of the opposition should be doing is a "smear". Calling that cult-like behaviour cult-like is a "smear". It's ridiculous.
Where does it mention those who voted for them? It's a reference to Vince Cable and Tim Farron missing a Brexit vote because they had better things to do. Namely discuss starting a new centrist party and lecturing about the gays.
The legendary genius of Alan Johnson. Even refused to get Momentum's help to get the message across, apparently. Luckily for him there wasn't then immediately an example of that group being able to reach voters that Labour hasn't bothered with for years, or he'd have looked like a right tit.
Maybe they read your posts
Thank you for explaining the inspiration for the joke, Cable and Farron shouldn't have missed a Brexit vote, I agree.
I'll explain what inspired mine: If you voted Corbyn and Labour a little over a year ago then you voted for Brexit, and if Brexit occurs now then the first person you can blame is yourself. Then Corbyn, obviously.
That is, after all, labours only policy.
as always, great post.
I think if there's one thing Brexiters and Remainers agree on it is that Brexit is the most important political event for 50 or 60 years of British history, and will set a course for the future that will far outlast anything else that might happen in one one individual term. Fact is there are people who voted for a Brexit party with a Brexit leader only a year ago, yet now try and blame everyone else and hope no one will have noticed. Why should I let them forget it?
I mean... that is what he calls for when speaking publicly. For example here (given whom the interview is with, that's where you'd expect to see his most rabid rhetoric). Whatever you might dislike with that interview, you cannot say he doesn't call for negotiations and dialogue.
Are you going to tell a disabled person on a verge of committing suicide because their PIP assessment declared them fit to work despite them being unable to walk and barely move their arms they caused Brexit when they voted for a decent welfare state?
Are you going to tell a single mother who is thousands of pounds in rent arears and goes hungry 5 nights a week they caused Brexit when they voted for decent wages?
Are you going to tell one of the 5 million adults who still live with their parents they caused Brexit when they voted for increased funding on social housing and lower rents?
Are you going to tell the people who live in commuter towns they voted for Brexit when they voted for public transport that doesn't take a third of their wages?
Are you going to tell minorities they caused Brexit when they voted for equal rights and opportunities?
Are you going to tell parents they caused Brexit when they voted for increased education funding because they're sick of getting asked to pay the teachers wages at the shithole of a school they have to send their kids to?
I'm glad Brexit is the biggest worry in your life but the rest of us aren't going to guarantee a tory victory by voting for the fecking lib dems.
This is very true. I like a lot of Corbyn's ideas but he's going to have a much harder time implementing them in a Britain that's potentially hit hard economically if we end up with a no deal Brexit.
He says that now as cover. In the same way now we all pretend he was somehow integral to a peace process in Ireland he was irrelevant to because otherwise some of his previous comments and associations would reflect badly on him.
Corbyn has spent decades cheerleading terrorist organisations like Hamas and the IRA with whom he agrees, maybe not with their methods but with their aims. Only retrospectively when it looks bad have he and his supporters decided what actually happened was that he was some well-meaning peace envoy.
What's more plausible, that he supported the causes he's on record as supporting or he genuinely thought the best way to peace was by exclusively championing a single side in two of the most violent and combustible political situations in post-war global politics? We're being asked to believe the second else...."Smear" #LeaveBritneyAlone
He also spent those decades opposing Apartheid, US meddling in South America and as a prominent member of anti-war movements where he consistently called for peaceful resolutions to conflicts, including in Palestine. This isn't a recent development.
Jeremy's support of losers in conflicts, his opposition to warmongering and nuclear proliferation, his long involvement in anti-war movements are major reasons why he so popular among the left and why he won both leadership elections so convincingly. It is something for him and his supporters to have pride in, not apologise for.