Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

Nuts said:
This again. What does it even mean? What do people who believe all this - again, set out all along by the right wing press - fear he’s going to do?

He’s a CND supporting peace campaigner who believes that peace comes from negotiations between both sides rather than more bombs.

I’m sure you’ll be horny to find something ooh so sinister and darker than that but I’ll just keep repeating the above response.
Click to expand...

campaigning for peace and believing in dialog are different to showing solidarity with one side in a conflict. One doesn't need to call Hamas or Hezbollah "brothers" to talk with them. One can see (and promote) them as legitimate party in a dialog without taking part in ceremonies, that honors their martyrs. Indeed, I'd argue, that critical distance to both sides is a necesary condition for anyone who wants to be seen as honest mediator for peace.
Corbyn is an advocate for one side, who promotes the agenda of one side in a media friendly way to western audiences. There is nothing wrong with that. One can choose a side in a conflict, but one should be honest about that. The Israel-Palestine conflict is probably the most controversial conflicts in the world; anyone who takes a side in this conflict is getting attacked from the other side.
Representing Corbyn as something that he is not - a neutral party - is simply propaganda to shield him from critizism. Using words like "peace activist" is nothing but doublespeak/orwellian language.
 
Kaos said:
No, there’s plenty of evidence to suggest he’s communicated with unsavoury factions, not offering bonafide support in line with their methods.

I’ve already said this - terrorists and those who sympathise with them do not advocate peaceful talks and discussions, they merely embrace and double down on violent means to their ends. Last I checked Corbyn is a pacifist who’s never called on violence as being an acceptable tool to tackle oppression, and he’s been pretty consistent with that stance. Suggesting that we enter peace talks with adversarial factions doesn’t mean he’s a flag bearer for terrorism. If that were the case then pretty much every government in recent history would be labelled as supporters of terrorism.

This government has offered its diplomatic weight behind the Syrian opposition forces, the bulk of which is made up of Al Qaeda affiliated factions, are we going to condemn it a supporter of terrorism?

Simply saying ‘but Hamas! IRA!’ without offering a semblance of context is a lazy stick to beat him with.
Click to expand...

Mate honestly don't talk about stuff you are clueless about. I lived through the troubles until the GFA was signed when I was aged 22 - I can assure you that Corbyn was a fully fledged IRA sympathiser and said as much at the time. That is all I need to know about him.
 
balaks said:
Mate honestly don't talk about stuff you are clueless about. I lived through the troubles until the GFA was signed when I was aged 22 - I can assure you that Corbyn was a fully fledged IRA sympathiser and said as much at the time. That is all I need to know about him.
Click to expand...

Quotes?
 
NinjaFletch said:
Does she say the quote that was getting her berated on Twitter and in here last night that: 'she felt the same fear her father would have felt when he was fleeing Nazi Germany?'

No. She doesn't. She said it made her think about the treatment of Jews in Germany in the 30s (fine, take issue with that if you like). That it made her feel like they were coming for her (again, take issue if you like), that it scared her and reminded her of her fathers advice to keep a suitcase by the door, and that she thinks that her fear might have been similar to what her father felt when he came to Britain.

Now what Sky have done, and I assume the reason why you have no issue with it, is tie the first half of the quote to the second, but you'd be wrong to do so because her Father didn't flee Nazi Germany to Britain, but Egypt to Britain at the outbreak of the Arab Israeli war in 1948. If you don't do that, and you shouldn't, then the idea that she's comparing being investigated by the Labour party as somehow equivalent to the Holocaust is utter bollocks (which was why she was criticised last night).

Now if we allow for a second that Hodge genuinely believes she made her comments to Corbyn in good faith, that she thinks there's a problem with anti-semitism in the Labour party, and that she is being investigated for the Labour party for calling out anti-semitism, do you not think it's reasonable that she might be scared about the attitude suspending her reveals? A fear based on personal experience and historical anti-semitism?

And hey, you might not allow Hodge such a generous interpretation, but I bet good money that starting a twitter hashtag to abuse her for being vocal about what she sees as a problem is hardly going to convince her that her fears were misplaced is it?
Click to expand...
If she wasn't comparing being investigated by a party for swearing at a colleague to the Holocaust, but expressed how she imagined what it would be like for 'Jews in Germany in the 1930s' and that they were 'coming for her' she's the worst public speaker I've ever heard.

If getting a letter makes her think people are 'coming for her', I genuinely and sincerely think she needs to go and speak to a professional about her paranoia.
 
Nuts said:
Quotes?
Click to expand...

Feck sake do you not have google? Ok let me do some work for you then if you must:

Here is an example of him being unable to condemn IRA violence: https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...anscript-of-his-nolan-interview-31430884.html

Further evidence of same thing: “Mr Corbyn, MP for Islington North, attacked the government’s Ulster policy and said troops should be pulled out of the Province.“He told the meeting of the Wolfe Tone Society: ‘I’m happy to commemorate all those who died fighting for an independent Ireland’.” https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/n...od-in-honour-of-dead-ira-terrorists-1-7008757'

Ex-IRA man stating Corbyn helped the IRA cause: https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...a-support-former-terrorist-says-35741452.html

More of the same here: 'Between 1986 and 1992, Mr Corbyn attended and spoke each year at the annual “Connolly/Sands” commemoration in London to honour dead IRA terrorists and support imprisoned IRA “prisoners of war.”

Programmes for the events have been obtained by the Telegraph.

The programme for the 1987 event, on May 16 of that year, praises the “soldiers of the IRA,” saying: “We are proud of our people and the revolutionaries who are an integral part of that people.”

The programme for the 1988 event, on May 8 of that year, states that “in this, the conclusive phase in the war to rid Ireland of the scourge of British imperialism… force of arms is the only method capable of bringing this about.”

The event took place the day after the funerals of the service personnel killed by the IRA in the Netherlands. ' https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/po...rbyn-and-John-McDonnells-close-IRA-links.html

Do you want me to go on?
 
balaks said:
Feck sake do you not have google? Ok let me do some work for you then if you must:

Here is an example of him being unable to condemn IRA violence: https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...anscript-of-his-nolan-interview-31430884.html

Further evidence of same thing: “Mr Corbyn, MP for Islington North, attacked the government’s Ulster policy and said troops should be pulled out of the Province.“He told the meeting of the Wolfe Tone Society: ‘I’m happy to commemorate all those who died fighting for an independent Ireland’.” https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/n...od-in-honour-of-dead-ira-terrorists-1-7008757'

Ex-IRA man stating Corbyn helped the IRA cause: https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...a-support-former-terrorist-says-35741452.html

More of the same here: 'Between 1986 and 1992, Mr Corbyn attended and spoke each year at the annual “Connolly/Sands” commemoration in London to honour dead IRA terrorists and support imprisoned IRA “prisoners of war.”

Programmes for the events have been obtained by the Telegraph.

The programme for the 1987 event, on May 16 of that year, praises the “soldiers of the IRA,” saying: “We are proud of our people and the revolutionaries who are an integral part of that people.”

The programme for the 1988 event, on May 8 of that year, states that “in this, the conclusive phase in the war to rid Ireland of the scourge of British imperialism… force of arms is the only method capable of bringing this about.”

The event took place the day after the funerals of the service personnel killed by the IRA in the Netherlands. ' https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/po...rbyn-and-John-McDonnells-close-IRA-links.html

Do you want me to go on?
Click to expand...
Are you a unionist by any chance ?
 
balaks said:
Feck sake do you not have google? Ok let me do some work for you then if you must:

Here is an example of him being unable to condemn IRA violence: https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...anscript-of-his-nolan-interview-31430884.html

Further evidence of same thing: “Mr Corbyn, MP for Islington North, attacked the government’s Ulster policy and said troops should be pulled out of the Province.“He told the meeting of the Wolfe Tone Society: ‘I’m happy to commemorate all those who died fighting for an independent Ireland’.” https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/n...od-in-honour-of-dead-ira-terrorists-1-7008757'

Ex-IRA man stating Corbyn helped the IRA cause: https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...a-support-former-terrorist-says-35741452.html

More of the same here: 'Between 1986 and 1992, Mr Corbyn attended and spoke each year at the annual “Connolly/Sands” commemoration in London to honour dead IRA terrorists and support imprisoned IRA “prisoners of war.”

Programmes for the events have been obtained by the Telegraph.

The programme for the 1987 event, on May 16 of that year, praises the “soldiers of the IRA,” saying: “We are proud of our people and the revolutionaries who are an integral part of that people.”

The programme for the 1988 event, on May 8 of that year, states that “in this, the conclusive phase in the war to rid Ireland of the scourge of British imperialism… force of arms is the only method capable of bringing this about.”

The event took place the day after the funerals of the service personnel killed by the IRA in the Netherlands. ' https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/po...rbyn-and-John-McDonnells-close-IRA-links.html

Do you want me to go on?
Click to expand...
If you want. None of that changes my view that he has sought to use his position to campaign for peace.
 
Sweet Square said:
Are you a unionist by any chance ?
Click to expand...

No I'm not, not that it is any of your business. I am somebody however who knows what was happening around the time and is not somebody who supported the 'armed struggle' in any way. Why would me being a unionist or not be important?
 
Nuts said:
If you want. None of that changes my view that he has sought to use his position to campaign for peace.
Click to expand...

Ok mate thats fair enough you are entitled to your opinion just don't you dare try and browbeat me down about stuff you know feck all about. You think what you like and ignore the actual facts - thats up to you.
 
balaks said:
Ok mate thats fair enough you are entitled to your opinion just don't you dare try and browbeat me down about stuff you know feck all about. You think what you like and ignore the actual facts - thats up to you.
Click to expand...
Drop the aggression. I called you out on a totally different topic - you said it’s clear that Corbyn is pro-Brexit.

And drop the personal insults as well. I’ve got my own very good reasons to vote for someone who shows signs of caring about our social services.
 
Nuts said:
Drop the aggression. I called you out on a totally different topic - you said it’s clear that Corbyn is pro-Brexit.

And drop the personal insults as well. I’ve got my own very good reasons to vote for someone who shows signs of caring about our social services.
Click to expand...

I didnt say that - please read what I said again. I said he wanted the UK out of Europe which has been his position for many years - I didn't mention the current BREXIT situation - I've no idea how he voted or if he even did but I am fairly certain that he would not have voted against it given his historical position. I apologise for getting annoyed at you if you were not referring to all the IRA stuff.

I agree with many of his policies and his views on certain topics as I have said before - I'm a left leaning person. That does not mean I will ignore his past nor should anybody else.
 
Dobba said:
If she wasn't comparing being investigated by a party for swearing at a colleague to the Holocaust, but expressed how she imagined what it would be like for 'Jews in Germany in the 1930s' and that they were 'coming for her' she's the worst public speaker I've ever heard.

If getting a letter makes her think people are 'coming for her', I genuinely think she needs to go and speak to a professional about her paranoia.
Click to expand...

Or perhaps she thinks being suspended by the party for swearing is a flimsy pre-text to get rid of a trouble maker who called out racism? Treatment which made her think of a pretty good example of how horrible anti-semitism is? Maybe that makes her the 'worst public speaker you've ever heard' and maybe it's without merit, but I fail to see how it's less of a stretch than an interpretation which relies entirely on getting her family history wrong.

Does this conversation not sadden you as well? When I grew up people wanted to bash fash's, tackle racism wherever it occured, and genuinely improve the lot of marganilised groups in society. Now, apparently, we dictate to minorities what is and isn't racism, dismiss accusations out of hand, and circle wagons around the glorious leader whenever he's accused of anything and suspend people concerned for having the temerity to swear. Whatever the respective merits of the allegations that caused it, how the crisis has been responded to is despressing as feck.

But anyway, I'm off to twitter. I think it's about time I sent Hodge some anti-semitic abuse becase she dared to think that there was a problem with anti-semitism and that it made her feel unsafe. That will show her how wrong she is.
 
Last edited:
balaks said:
I didnt say that - please read what I said again. I said he wanted the UK out of Europe which has been his position for many years - I didn't mention the current BREXIT situation - I've no idea how he voted or if he even did but I am fairly certain that he would not have voted against it given his historical position. I apologise for getting annoyed at you if you were not referring to all the IRA stuff.

I agree with many of his policies and his views on certain topics as I have said before - I'm a left leaning person. That does not mean I will ignore his past nor should anybody else.
Click to expand...
Fair enough.
 
balaks said:
I didnt say that - please read what I said again. I said he wanted the UK out of Europe which has been his position for many years
Click to expand...
He has a mixed voting record on Europe, voting for some treaties and against others. That's not the behaviour of someone who wants out, that's a EU reformer record - which was his position at the referendum too.
 
Silva said:
He has a mixed voting record on Europe, voting for some treaties and against others. That's not the behaviour of someone who wants out, that's a EU reformer record - which was his position at the referendum too.
Click to expand...

He is not what you would call a Europhile though is he? It is not clear how he would vote on BREXIT (not that I care - I only care that we have a working and strong opposition to keep the Gov in check during BREXIT negotiations - something Corbyn seems utterly incapable of doing).
 
PedroMendez said:
campaigning for peace and believing in dialog are different to showing solidarity with one side in a conflict. One doesn't need to call Hamas or Hezbollah "brothers" to talk with them. One can see (and promote) them as legitimate party in a dialog without taking part in ceremonies, that honors their martyrs. Indeed, I'd argue, that critical distance to both sides is a necesary condition for anyone who wants to be seen as honest mediator for peace.
Corbyn is an advocate for one side, who promotes the agenda of one side in a media friendly way to western audiences. There is nothing wrong with that. One can choose a side in a conflict, but one should be honest about that. The Israel-Palestine conflict is probably the most controversial conflicts in the world; anyone who takes a side in this conflict is getting attacked from the other side.
Representing Corbyn as something that he is not - a neutral party - is simply propaganda to shield him from critizism. Using words like "peace activist" is nothing but doublespeak/orwellian language.
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
Silva said:
The options aren't suck the EU's dick or Leave.


Yeah it is, it's a matter of public record. He campaigned for remain and has consistently voted against the governments Brexit bills.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. It's a shame then that he appears to be lacking in conviction against BREXIT outside of the voting then - because he has been very quiet on it generally rather than having a very strong position on it - at least that is my perception of him and Labour in general.
 
balaks said:
Fair enough. It's a shame then that he appears to be lacking in conviction against BREXIT outside of the voting then - because he has been very quiet on it generally rather than having a very strong position on it - at least that is my perception of him and Labour in general.
Click to expand...
He's given multiple speeches and spoken against the governments bills dozens of times in parliament. Government critics don't get much airtime unless the criticism is "lets put an even worse tory in charge"
 
Silva said:
He's given multiple speeches and spoken against the governments bills dozens of times in parliament. Government critics don't get much airtime unless the criticism is "lets put an even worse tory in charge"
Click to expand...

The message is not getting through in that case.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Or perhaps she thinks being suspended by the party for swearing is a flimsy pre-text to get rid of a trouble maker who called out racism? Treatment which made her think of a pretty good example of how horrible anti-semitism is? Maybe that makes her the 'worst public speaker you've ever heard' and maybe it's without merit, but I fail to see how it's less of a stretch than an interpretation which relies entirely on getting her family history wrong.

Does this conversation not sadden you as well? When I grew up people wanted to bash fash's, tackle racism wherever it occured, and genuinely improve the lot of marganilised groups in society. Now, apparently, we dictate to minorities what is and isn't racism, dismiss accusations out of hand, and circle wagons around the glorious leader whenever he's accused of anything and suspend people concerned for having the temerity to swear. Whatever the respective merits of the allegations that caused it, how the crisis has been responded to is despressing as feck.

But anyway, I'm off to twitter. I think it's about time I sent Hodge some anti-semitic abuse becase she dared to think that there was a problem with anti-semitism and that it made her feel unsafe. That will show her how wrong she is.
Click to expand...

https://www.patreon.com/posts/20193104

It's an irony that is only underlined by the talking points of Progress-affiliated MPs, which include the absolutely, ludicrously false claim that Margaret Hodge saw off the BNP in Barking. Margaret Hodge did not see off the BNP in Barking. Hodge spent most of her time legitimising BNP arguments.

Beginning in 2006, when New Labour's electoral difficulties were increasingly obvious, and when Blair's leadership was under attack, Hodge began to identify "indigenous" concerns as a major problem. In her constituency, she said white people saw "black and ethnic-minority communities moving in and they are angry".

Finessing this rhetoric, she later made to sure to stipulate that black, Asian and white Britons were all "indigenous". The problem was no longer "black and ethnic-minority communities" per se, but new migrants. Therefore, she argued that "indigenous" families have a "legitimate sense of entitlement"to social housing that should trump the needs of migrant families. She gave credence to the BNP claim that, contrary to this "legitimate sense of entitlement", migrants were jumping ahead of the queue. And she said that, to address this, New Labour should block benefits for migrants for up to twelve months.
Click to expand...


Social housing was limited and British families had a "legitimate sense of entitlement" to their own homes - Hodge

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6673911.stm
 
balaks said:
No I'm not, not that it is any of your business. I am somebody however who knows what was happening around the time and is not somebody who supported the 'armed struggle' in any way. Why would me being a unionist or not be important?
Click to expand...
:lol:

Well it's not none my business so............

But really I would say it's rather important on how someone views the I.R.A/Struggle for Independence and how they view Corbyn links to it.
One man terrorist is another man freedom fighter etc
 
NinjaFletch said:
Which, as lamentable as it is, has absolutely feck all to do with whether her complaints of anti-semitism in the party are legitimate or not.
Click to expand...
I wasn't talking about her criticism of anti semitism but more your odd point about how people used to care about fighting racism.

Classical Mechanic said:
So she moved to appease Labour's traditional base that contains a lots of xenophobia and racism. Sounds like someone else we know!
Click to expand...
Hey come on Tony been out of office for years.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Or perhaps she thinks being suspended by the party for swearing is a flimsy pre-text to get rid of a trouble maker who called out racism? Treatment which made her think of a pretty good example of how horrible anti-semitism is? Maybe that makes her the 'worst public speaker you've ever heard' and maybe it's without merit, but I fail to see how it's less of a stretch than an interpretation which relies entirely on getting her family history wrong.
Click to expand...
I did chuckle at her accusing it of being a purge against people for who they support/don't support for leader after her complete and utter silence when the same was happening in droves at the last leadership election. Can't think why she'd have been in favour of that...

NinjaFletch said:
Does this conversation not sadden you as well? When I grew up people wanted to bash fash's, tackle racism wherever it occured, and genuinely improve the lot of marganilised groups in society. Now, apparently, we dictate to minorities what is and isn't racism, dismiss accusations out of hand, and circle wagons around the glorious leader whenever he's accused of anything and suspend people concerned for having the temerity to swear. Whatever the respective merits of the allegations that caused it, how the crisis has been responded to is despressing as feck.
Click to expand...
Careful where you're doing that, it's a very fine line between supporting Palestine and being antisemitic apparently.

I know, they used to have to express their love of the band Foo Fighters or retweet Caroline Lucas to get that treatment. Now scream swearing in a colleague's face is good enough to just be threatened with it and it not happen.
 
Last edited:
Sweet Square said:
:lol:

Well it's not none my business so............

But really I would say it's rather important on how someone views the I.R.A/Struggle for Independence and how they view Corbyn links to it.
One man terrorist is another man freedom fighter etc
Click to expand...

It is none of your business. Anyway - as I said I'm not a unionist and if a border poll was called tomorrow I would have to think long and hard about which way to vote as to be honest I'm not sure which way I would go. I know people who have been affected horrifically by violence on both sides - IRA/INLA/UDA/UVF, etc. and I hate every last one of those groups. I can and do openly condemn the IRA and any other group you care to mention who caused suffering in this country. Why can't Jeremy?
 
NinjaFletch said:
Or perhaps she thinks being suspended by the party for swearing is a flimsy pre-text to get rid of a trouble maker who called out racism? Treatment which made her think of a pretty good example of how horrible anti-semitism is? Maybe that makes her the 'worst public speaker you've ever heard' and maybe it's without merit, but I fail to see how it's less of a stretch than an interpretation which relies entirely on getting her family history wrong.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how many people would keep their jobs if they swore at their boss
 
Mozza said:
I'm not sure how many people would keep their jobs if they swore at their boss
Click to expand...

Perhaps not many, but if we're talking hypothetical work place scenario I'd rather think people would initially express sympathy with this hypothetical person and question whether the hypothetical company were institutionally racist if all things were equal.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Perhaps not many, but if we're talking hypothetical work place scenario I'd rather think people would initially express sympathy with this hypothetical person and question whether the hypothetical company were institutionally racist if all things were equal.
Click to expand...

I'm about to test this out by swearing at my boss for not implementing IHRA at all, let alone the examples. Wish me luck!
 
balaks said:
It is none of your business. Anyway - as I said I'm not a unionist and if a border poll was called tomorrow I would have to think long and hard about which way to vote as to be honest I'm not sure which way I would go. I know people who have been affected horrifically by violence on both sides - IRA/INLA/UDA/UVF, etc. and I hate every last one of those groups. I can and do openly condemn the IRA and any other group you care to mention who caused suffering in this country. Why can't Jeremy?
Click to expand...
I image like many on the left he believes in a United Ireland. But again this is completely different to actual calling on violence which is something Corbyn has never done(Now proceeds millions links to million comments made by Corbyn). I mean do you think it was wrong that Corbyn protested to stop apartheid considering that the Armed wing of ANC was planting bombs and killing people ?

We can debate wither this is right or wrong I guess(I'd rather not because Corbyn right) but to do this grand moralising as you have is just odd.
 
Sweet Square said:
I image like many on the left he believes in a United Ireland. But again this is completely different to actual calling on violence which is something Corbyn has never done(Now proceeds millions links to million comments made by Corbyn). I mean do you think it was wrong that Corbyn protested to stop apartheid considering that the Armed wing of ANC was planting bombs and killing people ?

We can debate wither this is right or wrong I guess(I'd rather not because Corbyn right) but to do this grand moralising as you have is just odd.
Click to expand...

He refuses to condemn the violence of one side - that is not just supporting a united ireland (which i have no problem with), neither is it me 'grand moralising' as you so patronisingly put it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.