Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

Ubik said:
Better keep that quiet.
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She's somewhat finished, going against her

.Her local CLP voting to back Corbyn,

.Her website being set up a day before Benn's sacking(Proving the whole tears stuff to be some what a lot of shite)

.Voting record - Voting for Iraq and voting against investigation into it.

.Now Mandelson being involved

Still I agree with your earlier post that there's a chance it could be very close(Although at the same I think it could easily be the opposite and maybe even a bigger than the last leadership victory for Corbyn).

Also rally today in Liverpool



Pretty surprising to say the least.
 
Sweet Square said:
She's somewhat finished, going against her

.Her local CLP voting to back Corbyn,

.Her website being set up a day before Benn's sacking(Proving the whole tears stuff to be some what a lot of shite)

.Voting record - Voting for Iraq and voting against investigation into it.

.Now Mandelson being involved

Still I agree with your earlier post that there's a chance it could be very close(Although at the same I think it could easily be the opposite and maybe even a bigger than the last leadership victory for Corbyn).

Also rally today in Liverpool



Pretty surprising to say the least.
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The whole CLP vote is something to be wary of to be honest. From what I've read, someone in the Islington CLP was going to put forward a motion of confidence in Corbyn last week, but was advised to withdraw it as it wasn't clear he'd win it. Meanwhile, somewhat deliciously, James Schneider's (Momentum spokesman) CLP of Holborn and St Pancras voted against Corbyn last week, and they nominated him in the leadership contest.

Also not surprised at Liverpool at all, considering its history.

Whilst I'm not particularly confident of Eagle winning a race, an election campaign is going to be brutal for Corbyn. Last year will look whimsical in comparison. That one was just that repetition on the theme that ideas would prove unelectable, this time it's going to be a rollcall of figures calling him and his team incompetent and incapable of being PM. And if the unions turn against him - and if you read their statement released the other night, there's every chance they might - he's going to have a tough time.
 
Ubik said:
The whole CLP vote is something to be wary of to be honest. From what I've read, someone in the Islington CLP was going to put forward a motion of confidence in Corbyn last week, but was advised to withdraw it as it wasn't clear he'd win it. Meanwhile, somewhat deliciously, James Schneider's (Momentum spokesman) CLP of Holborn and St Pancras voted against Corbyn last week, and they nominated him in the leadership contest.

Also not surprised at Liverpool at all, considering its history.

Whilst I'm not particularly confident of Eagle winning a race, an election campaign is going to be brutal for Corbyn. Last year will look whimsical in comparison. That one was just that repetition on the theme that ideas would prove unelectable, this time it's going to be a rollcall of figures calling him and his team incompetent and incapable of being PM. And if the unions turn against him - and if you read their statement released the other night, there's every chance they might - he's going to have a tough time.
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Ah thanks.

There where rally's in other places as well - Leeds,Cardiff, Manchester & Durham not sure if it means much just that it's surprising so many people cared, well surprising to me anyway.

Oh yeah the actually leadership race will be tougher than before(It has to be after the last one). And as you mentioned there's plenty more to rightly attack Corbyn and his team on, I would disagree with the rollcall of figures calling him out as having any effect, the last week and a bit has pretty much killed any trust in the Party.

But even with all the criticism that's going to face Corbyn(I agree with you about The Unions, it their biggest hope), the main problem for the PLP is well....... they are just shite. So as bad as it could get for Corbyn(And it could get very bad) I can't see anything other than him winning(Although I say this as someone who is mostly likely going to vote for Corbyn).

Plus with the chilcot enquiry to be soon out, a lot of people in Labour are going to feel the shock waves(If that makes sense)- Eagle being one of them.
 
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Sweet Square said:
Ah thanks.

There where rally's in other places as well - Leeds,Cardiff, Manchester & Durham not sure if it means much just that it's surprising so many people cared, well surprising to me anyway.

Oh yeah the actually leadership race will be tougher than before(It has to be after the last one). And as you mentioned there's plenty more to rightly attack Corbyn and his team on, I would disagree with the rollcall of figures calling him out as having any effect, the last week and a bit has pretty much killed any trust in the Party.

But even with all the criticism that's going to face Corbyn(I agree with you about The Unions, it their biggest hope), the main problem for the PLP is well....... they are just shite. So as bad as it could get for Corbyn(And it could get very bad) I can't see anything other than him winning(Although I say this as someone who is mostly likely going to vote for Corbyn).

Plus with the chilcot enquiry to be soon out, a lot of people in Labour are going to feel the shock waves(If that makes sense)- Eagle being one of them.
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There's definitely going to be a significant anti-establishment vote, and that'll also rally people to his cause, unquantifiable at this stage but enough to cause problems for the challenger, who by definition will be the establishment candidate. There's a hell of a lot riding on it all though, which ever way the result goes a large number of people are going to feel extremely alienated from the party with a strong chance of a split. That's why I think the reports of delegations trying to see Corbyn and talk him down are correct, and not just because they're scared about what their side losing would mean, but because even winning is going to have plenty of negative consequences. I even think that long term a split is necessary for the survival of a centre-left party of government, but short term that is always going to be painful, and the next couple of years are less than ideal for that.

On Iraq - you're probably right that it'll harm her, but let's be clear here, she wasn't even a minister when the vote occurred, she wasn't involved in government decision making at all. Voting against investigations will just have been following the whip. Chilcot will of course bring things to the fore, but many of the same people that voted for Corbyn likely had no trouble in voting for Tom Watson as deputy so I'm skeptical on their sincerity (though I suppose he had Brownie points for having knifed Blair).
 
On Saturday night, Corbyn allies accused the parliamentary party of sabotaging Labour’s ability to hold the government to account.

One Labour source said those at the top of the party were livid when it emerged that files on a shared Labour party hard drive relating to the finance bill going through parliament had been deleted as the shadow finance secretary Rob Marris resigned.

An internal email seen by this newspaper said: “Unfortunately, it looks like someone from Rob Marris’s office has deleted the vast majority of the finance bill records and notes on each clause from the shared drive.”

A Labour source raised the spectre of deselection, adding that it fitted in with a campaign of sabotage. He said: “The finance bill is a hugely important bit of legislation. Under normal times the party’s severest punishment to my knowledge for such transgression could go as high as deselection.

“This is because such a bill normally includes important measures involving things like tax avoidance and pensioners and working families.

“For example, in this case his actions could have led to undermining things such as our opposition to the tampon tax, which – if he had his way – would have prevented us from ending it sooner.”
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It's come out that one of the MPs who resigned, Rob Marris, deleted a bunch of files relating to the finance bill. I don't think anyone can argue that they aren't sabotaging the party any more.

He claims it was his own personal material to help his job, not sure that you can claim that at any work place though.
 
Sweet Square said:
Still I agree with your earlier post that there's a chance it could be very close(Although at the same I think it could easily be the opposite and maybe even a bigger than the last leadership victory for Corbyn).

Also rally today in Liverpool



Pretty surprising to say the least.
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That's why I think this whole debacle is undemocratic. The party voted for Corbyn overwhelmingly, the party will vote for him again. Yet 200 people think they have the right to circumvent the wishes of the party membership.
 
The problem is a lack off a candidate both sides can back. Corbyns policies are good for the working man, the ones who voted out in the north, most the PLP will ignore that and try and build a winning party by pandering to the anti immigration sentiment and being slightly softer than the Tories on welfare to win middle England
 
Drifter said:
Labour leadership: Corbyn offers to 'reach out' to opponents

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36696712
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he said the Labour constitution said its leader must have substantial support among the Parliamentary party - and if that doesn't exist, he or she must stand down or face a contest.
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I agree with this part of what Kinnock said. He should be up for a contest which he is. If he loses to the Conservatives in the Labor party then fair enough. I don't think he would lose though.
 
Fully Fledged said:
Chris Bryant, John Healey and Lord Falconer to name a few.
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Ignoring the absurdity of calling John Healey right of centre, you now have only 170 left to name (Falconer didn't take part in the vote due to being a Lord).

To save you a little time, only 17% of Labour MPs went to fee paying schools. And 75% voted against Corbyn in the motion.

I suppose Prescott is a public school Tory as well for saying Corbyn needs 51 signatures to be on the ballot.
 
Ubik said:
Ignoring the absurdity of calling John Healey right of centre, you now have only 170 left to name (Falconer didn't take part in the vote due to being a Lord).

To save you a little time, only 17% of Labour MPs went to fee paying schools. And 75% voted against Corbyn in the motion.

I suppose Prescott is a public school Tory as well for saying Corbyn needs 51 signatures to be on the ballot.
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Yeah 17% and 20% went to Oxbridge. They lead the Blairite brigade in Labor who are pulling the Labor party apart.
They feel that their privilege means that they are more important than the party member who they are supposed to represent.
Politicians are supposed to represent their members tis vote is clearly against the will of the members.
 
Badunk said:
So, what percentage of the British population went to fee paying schools?

This is supposed to be the party of social equality, not privilege, remember.
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About 7%. Percentage among all MPs is 32%.

If you're arguing there should be greater levels of social mobility, then you won't find any argument from me. My actual point was that the vast majority of those voting against Corbyn weren't educated in private schools.
 
Ubik said:
About 7%. Percentage among all MPs is 32%.

If you're arguing there should be greater levels of social mobility, then you won't find any argument from me. My actual point was that the vast majority of those voting against Corbyn weren't educated in private schools.
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It isn't like Corbyn came from a working class hero background anyway.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
It isn't like Corbyn came from a working class hero background anyway.
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Also correct. And his strategy and comms guy went to a private school (and is a "former" stalinist, for full disclosure). And the spokesman for Momentum is a trust-fund bellend who likes to play at being a revolutionary. Who also campaigned for the Greens last year. So yeah, fair to say I'm skeptical of the argument that it's public school Blairites vs the rest of us.
 
The Labour party is set to split, there is an unelectable leader supported by a large grass roots following, and a bunch of centre left MP's hungry for power, something has to give.
 
Chorley1974 said:
The Labour party is set to split, there is an unelectable leader supported by a large grass roots following, and a bunch of centre left MP's hungry for power, something has to give.
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I think this week will be the beginning of the end...
150+mps will want to address the future of Labour (leader), Brexit etc and Corbyn will be focused on Chilcot... Perhaps Cameron will try and push a Trident debate forwards just to further highlight what a shambolic mess labour are at the moment.

In fairness with a lot of companies pro eu and a number of conservative donors who were pro eu it's good timing to set up a non union funded centre left party
 
Ubik said:
Also correct. And his strategy and comms guy went to a private school (and is a "former" stalinist, for full disclosure). And the spokesman for Momentum is a trust-fund bellend who likes to play at being a revolutionary. Who also campaigned for the Greens last year. So yeah, fair to say I'm skeptical of the argument that it's public school Blairites vs the rest of us.
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And for those that bang on about oxbridge
It's worth noting that even that bellend burgon and dianne Abbot (who is a clusterfek when it comes to private schools) went to cambridge
 
Technically I think you also have to be a war criminal, and a neoliberal. Maybe it's subliminal.
 
sun_tzu said:
I think this week will be the beginning of the end...
150+mps will want to address the future of Labour (leader), Brexit etc and Corbyn will be focused on Chilcot... Perhaps Cameron will try and push a Trident debate forwards just to further highlight what a shambolic mess labour are at the moment.

In fairness with a lot of companies pro eu and a number of conservative donors who were pro eu it's good timing to set up a non union funded centre left party
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Great - All they need now is some voters to ignore.
 
If Corbyn had strength as a leader he probably could have avoided this whole crisis by sacking John McDonnell and replacing him with a more centrist MP as shadow chancellor.

Or better yet, not having appointed McDonnell in the first place. That was always a terrible idea.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
If Corbyn had strength as a leader he probably could have avoided this whole crisis by sacking John McDonnell and replacing him with a more centrist MP as shadow chancellor.

Or better yet, not having appointed McDonnell in the first place. That was always a terrible idea.
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That would just have meant the shadow chancellor also quitting.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
If Corbyn had strength as a leader he probably could have avoided this whole crisis by sacking John McDonnell and replacing him with a more centrist MP as shadow chancellor.

Or better yet, not having appointed McDonnell in the first place. That was always a terrible idea.
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What the hell is a strong Leader if Corbyn isn't one? I know it's fun to say because the PLP said it so it must be true but what do you even mean?

Someone who stands by their convictions rather than flip flopping? Corbyn

Someone who isn't easily shouted down or defeated? Corbyn

Someone who likes to pretend to cry at tough decisions? Ah yes the strong leader Angela Eagle

The other favourite is claiming we need someone who can unify the party, in other words we don't like the leader and we'll act like children until he's replaced (but it's not our fault).
 
Smores said:
What the hell is a strong Leader if Corbyn isn't one? I know it's fun to say because the PLP said it so it must be true but what do you even mean?

Someone who stands by their convictions rather than flip flopping? Corbyn

Someone who isn't easily shouted down or defeated? Corbyn

Someone who likes to pretend to cry at tough decisions? Ah yes the strong leader Angela Eagle

The other favourite is claiming we need someone who can unify the party, in other words we don't like the leader and we'll act like children until he's replaced (but it's not our fault).
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You've described two things that make Corbyn stubborn and/or consistent. They have nothing to do with leadership.
 
Ubik said:
You've described two things that make Corbyn stubborn and/or consistent. They have nothing to do with leadership.
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Name a Labour alternative you'd consider a good leader.

And for heaven's sake man, don't say David Milliband.
 
If Corbyn hadn't been so Euro-sceptic, I would be in support of him regardless of the wishes of the PLP who I don't have any faith in anyway but right now I don't care for either of them.
 
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