Where exactly do they intend to deport Arabi Israelis? Rip up their passport and air drop them into the Gaza strip?
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
- Thread starter esmufc07
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Regardless of who is at fault here - this whole thing is a convenient distraction from the true atrocities elsewhere.
Hmm. It does sound to be me like the groups were looking for football fans specifically, that’s what is being reported via bbc. The stories on the bbc are of Israeli football fans being beaten up.
Now I am not defending this behaviour but do have an issue with how this is being made to be something new or something that only Jewish fans have experienced. Only last week we saw United fans targeted in Turkish bars and you can guarantee those groups were looking for anyone English.
It’s quite common knowledge that if you go to a different country and act like cnuts, you might spark a lot of trouble. The Maccabi fans have done just that.
I am in complete agreement with you. Violence is always abhorrent in my view.
The framing of the situation has been slightly crazy however, in my opinion.
There’s a film on social media of a Ukrainian guy being stopped on the street by one of the gangs, and being asked to show his passport. There are more reports of Israeli tourists who had nothing to do with the match being attacked.
That won’t work, it will be full of Israeli settlers by then.
They went to a city with a sizable arab community and started chanting "Death to all Arabs" and "There are no schools in Gaza because there are no children anymore". They also attacked homes with Palestinian flags and taxi drivers
Is meeting violence with the same a good reaction? Probably not but it's very understandable when the local police act as nothing but spectators to all that and the same happened in Greece with no consequences.
The biggest blame falls on UEEFA and FIFA for allowing a state committing bigger atrocities than Russia for 13 months to keep playing at their competitions. You could argue that the same applies to the European fans accepting this nonsense very easily.
Unfortunate if non football Israeli fans got caught up in it, although the report I’m reading says five people went to hospital. Doesn’t really seem like a pogrom, I don’t think this kind of reporting helps.
The eye witness reports on the bbc are saying that the people on scooters were looking for people in yellow shirts. It doesn’t scream antisemitism to me.
100%.
No one's talking about the condition of northern Gaza today.
I came to read for more info, after it has been described as ‘anti-Semitic’ attacks. Sounds like the Macabi fans had it coming to them from their actions
Really having to hold my tongue with someone I know who just posted about this acting as if they're innocent people who just got attacked. Completely ignoring the fact they were pulling down flags and chanting about dead children. It's not anti-semitism, they were just being cnuts for fecks sake.
As many predicted in the beginning of this, Israel did this to its own people. Israelis will not be welcome in large parts of the world anymore, even the innocent ones.
I really don't know what people expected.
I really don't know what people expected.
I think the ship sailed on "normalizing excessively violent responses" a while ago.
To not be cnuts?
Like don't get me wrong, it's pretty widespread.
Few of families I know in little Ukraine went to a Russian area of New York with baseball bats just to batter some Russians in 2023.
I understand the hatred, I understand the provocation but like, what good does it do? Answering unfettered violence with unfettered violence is a vicious cycle that will result in everyone getting battered.
I think the framing of it goes down to the shock of the response:
Football hooligans being knob heads is something every European is well adhered to, well used to and somewhat normalized.
People in groups walking down the street asking people where they are from before beating them is shocking to the average Western European, who has never experienced or seen something like this before in their lifetime.
Hence why the framing from certain people is what it is.
Of course, this is also quite "normal" in certain parts of the world. Got jumped by Donetsk fans after watching a Dinamo/Donestsk game when I was 18 asking me where I was from. Had to pretend I didn't speak Ukrainian and that I was a British tourist.
I think that "not be cnuts" ship has sailed long ago. These are not average football hooligans, these are genocide-celebrating pieces of shit.
And let's not play dumb, this is only happening because of genocide in Gaza.
I don't understanding how regardless of the context, violence should be the solution. All that happens is innocent people end up getting hurt in the cycle. You solve nothing with this kind of localized action.
You still wrong. The holocaust ended freeing jews and he nazis losing. What israel is doing will end killing or expelling all palestinians and Israel winning. Quite different
Violence should be always the answer against fascists and genocidial maniacs. Context matter
Violence is always a solution for everyone who feels that state apparatus or any other sort of power is incapable of serving justice, or is serving injustice on purpose.
It is nothing new, it has been there for ages and it will be there for ages, it was there much before the states and it will be there even if the states as social concepts fail in long run.
It is nothing new, it has been there for ages and it will be there for ages, it was there much before the states and it will be there even if the states as social concepts fail in long run.
Battering racists isn't even a good strategy even when they are being racist pieces of mierde.
Violence in response to violence does not work unless you're 10 and there's a bully picking on you (even then if you can negotiate things will end better but let's not pitch the level of lunatic racists at the level of children, an insult to the latter).
I’m not really talking about Jews, I am talking about genocide.
No, this doesn't work and has never worked. The solution is to rid them of their views and mindset. Battering and beating someone up because they hold terrible views/behave terrible never ends well.
The Indian revolution (which was peculiar in the respect that Gandhi postponed it during WW2 whereas the Irish during WW1 basically said "feck that, nows our chance" - but that revolution and Gandhi's method, even though there was violence, no one disputes it, became something the American Civil Rights movement would later embody. Non-violent tactics to disrupting a false state apparatus. Entirely legitimate. Violence is illegitimate. I can understand almost all of it (and I mean from the street to the state), but I can not condone it - otherwise I would be a complete hypocrite.
I'm not one to endorse violence but exactly would you deal with a group of folks who not only harbour racist views, but also believe they are genuinely superior human beings (because God told them so), and that children of what they deem to be a lesser race are fair game for genocide. You expect to reason with these people to somehow rid them of their views and mindset? Its one thing reaching out to working class football hooligans with 'colourful' views because they don't know any better, it's quite another thing trying to talk down a bunch of ethno-fascists who infamously aren't exactly known for being reasonable or shaken from their supremacist and dogmatic views.
These weren't just a bunch of drunken run of the mill football fans who slipped a view slurs, these scumbags were boasting about genocidal exploits and annihilating children. Frankly feck them, they deserved a pummelling. Of course I'd share the same sentiment for the idiots who went around looking for innocent Israelis to pummel on the basis of nothing more than their passport or faith.
I’ve not only been to several games where this has happened and known people caught up in situations exactly like this, I also grew up at the height of the UK football hooligan crackdown where we were constantly shown behaviour like that of the Tel Aviv fans that was treated like a shameful stain on the country and every time English fans abroad - particularly at tournaments - got their heads kicked in it was seen as just comeuppance.
The framing of this has been absolutely insane and completely unlike any hooliganism clash I’ve ever seen. They were away day football dickheads being pricks in a foreign City who got jumped by the home firm and it’s being called a pogrom FFS and our Home Secretary is commenting on it!! Mental shenanigans.
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If I punch a nazi in the face I'm not trying to solve any problem, it just feels good punching a nazi in the face.
If you are talking about Holocaust you are talking about jews. Like Nakba is talking about palestinians. If you want to separate the genocidal part of the holocaust yes, agreed. If we are talking about the whole holocaust that is a genocide where it was stopped of being even worse and the perpetrators were defeated, judged and condemned and remembered in history, what is happening in Gaza is going to end worse than the holocaust, because nothing is going to stop them, they will not be judged and condemned, they will win and history willnot remember it like a genocidal disaster but Israel taking what is rightfully theirs
As long as it doesn't ends well for them, I am all for it. I am sorry but not all views can be treated the same way. tolerate the intolerant and intolerance will win, there is no way to get rid of heir views and mindset
No surprise that you are echoing Geert Wilders, again.the double standards in this thread are amazing. At least the true colours have come out for the umpteenth time.
He should focus on holding Israel to account.
They don't plan that far. Right now they are focused on the good PR with their voters.
Even with his failing cognitive abilities, he's always been clear that he's 100% behind Israel and there are no such things as red lines.
feck off, genocide joe
How are people in here so confident the exact same people that misbehaved were the exact same individuals that were hunted down the streets in Amsterdam?
The think they're invincible and protected. What's happening in Gaza has given them a sense of entitlement. They think they can bring that same attitude wherever they go.
Why are the Palestinians being hunted down? What did they do? What did the children do? Why are they being killed?