Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

Idxomer said:


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I'm skeptical of things on twitter but when you see things like the grilling of Coates on that show, it becomes entirely reasonable to think that the US media would just ignore certain things that make Israel look bad.
 
Found this bit from the above essay interesting

"The high regard that Israelis have for the IDF is reflected in the findings of the Israel Democracy Institute, which published its annual Democracy Index in March. According to Tamar Hermann, the IDI’s director of policy research, surveys conducted after October 7 found that Jewish Israelis were “not satisfied (to say the least) with the functioning of the Israeli political system.” According to the index, only 19 percent expressed trust in the Knesset and only 15 percent in the country’s political parties. On the other hand, IDI president Yohanan Plesner said the report showed that “the public places great trust in the IDF and its commanders, who set a personal example, take responsibility, and act with courage and conviction in every aspect of the war.” It reported that the IDF had its highest rating for trust, 86.5 percent".
 


I'm starting to hate the "where there's no Hamas" clarification. So what if there's Hamas? That doesn't give anyone the right, especially the ones committing genocide against Palestinians, to bomb these people to shreds. I know it's used as an answer to Israel's depraved excuses but that shit shouldn't be entertained anymore.
 
Idxomer said:


I'm starting to hate the "where there's no Hamas" clarification. So what if there's Hamas? That doesn't give anyone the right, especially the ones committing genocide against Palestinians, to bomb these people to shreds. I know it's used as an answer to Israel's depraved excuses but that shit shouldn't be entertained anymore.
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I agree but the trouble is Hamas using residential areas and public buildings such as schools and hopitals and UN buildings to store weapons and munitions, have tunnels under and their fighters being constantly amongst civilians means that there is always going to be a considerable amount of collateral damage. The question always is, what's considered to be 'acceptable?'

You only have to look in this thread and around the internet to see so many people that consider any amount acceptable as long as they are stopping Hamas (and now Hezbollah) They openly argue against Israel being at fault, continuously claim reports of mass casualty incidents are fake or biased news or that they were completely justified. They are only more emboldened to think and speak this way because the majority of the western worlds governments are backing them up in so many ways, be it funding, arming or just banning anti Israeli protests etc.


Personally don't think Netanyahu and the IDF have ever given one single shit about collateral damage as they have just bombed and assaulted with impunity. I used to think their end goal was genocide or at the bare minimum, ethnic cleansing of the region. However, since they have now branched out in to Syria, Lebanon and other places, I'm not sure what the goal is aside from absolute domination of the entire region. The recent strikes on the West Bank only further given credit to that line of thinking.

Now the biggest irony and hypocrisy in all this is Israel have been shown to be clearly using civilians as human shields themselves and putting forces and equipment in public places.

Whatever their goal, supporters of Israel will never accept or even see fault in the majority of their actions, if any at all, moreso they will just continue to find ways to justify them, deny or ignore them or go with the two most lazy, disingenuous and pathetic arguments in support of Israel and that is that anyone criticising is a terrorist supporter or antisemitic or that it all started on October 7th and anything before that is irrelevant or again, didn't really happen.

To me, all that is as sick and evil as those carrying out the attacks. I just find it all so thoroughly sickening and depressing. It's abhorrent, hence why I've tried my best to visit these threads as little as possible in the last week or two.
 
I disagree that bringing up 'no Hamas' is bad because clearly one of the big problems here is that Israel is intentionally killing lots of people who are not Hamas, as their direct targets.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
I disagree that bringing up 'no Hamas' is bad because clearly one of the big problems here is that Israel is intentionally killing lots of people who are not Hamas, as their direct targets.
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I don't think it's bad but it's pandering to Israel's excuses. Bringing up "no Hamas" unintentionally makes it seem that it's ok when Hamas or any other targets are there. The excuse here in this incident for example will be easy, they hit a cafe with Palestinian fighters in it who were their direct target. The attack was naturally indiscriminate and killed children and women. Also, while acknowledging that colonizers will go after any resistance, we need to point out that they don't have any right to do so.
 
I don't think a post that says Israel is on a "deranged killing spree" and has "impunity to slaughter" is pandering to their excuses. On a broader sense, maybe.
 
Can someone in here explain the main points of the Oslo Accords?

Basically positive/negative points for Palestine/Israel and of these, which never ended happening?

And a general overview from back then to today if possible. I have a very vague and basic notion and I will like to know a bit more.
 
Idxomer said:


https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1842242729436201158.html
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Excellent investigative work.

I'm not one to wish harm on others, but I wouldn't shed a tear if these child-killers get their comeuppance now that they're exposed and compromised.

One a side note, typical to see most of them being foreign nationals. You'd think some of their (democratic) home nations would hold issue with them fighting for another nation's military and committing atrocities, but I won't hold my breath. Though perhaps the South Africans can lock up their terrorist if/when he decides to go home.
 
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Kaos said:
Excellent investigative work.

I'm not one to wish harm on others, but I wouldn't shed a tear if these child-killers get their comeuppance now that they're exposed and compromised.

One a side note, typical to see most of them being foreign nationals. You'd think some of their (democratic) home nations would hold issue with them fighting for another nation's military and committing atrocities, but I won't hold my breath. Though perhaps the South Africans can lock up their terrorist if/when he decides to go home.
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On a moral level level: This whole unit should be court martialled, and its commander and his commander sent to prison for an exceedingly long time. This is grim to watch, because it's obvious these people enjoy doing what they're doing. The motivation for these soldiers is completely wrong, from the looks of things.

On a technical level: Holy shit these guys are unprofessional. A fecking Facebook campaign to get equipment? My god, there's a damn process for this, follow it. Every modern military has a procurement request and acquisition process (or atleast they should do, unless you're Russia) and its up to the CO to provide for things. There was a scandal in Iraq because UK troops were asking family to buy and ship over plate armour for them because the process was broken.

Every single one of these soldiers is going to now be burnt, which is great for the rest of humanity, but one cannot begin to imagine the level of incompetency around the whole IDF when their elite sniper battalions are so lacklustre in their opsec and don't take their job seriously.

You'll never find me telling anyone what unit I was attached to, what area or specific things done during operations because it's drilled into us from day 1 that that is insanely stupid. The most we'll go is at a brigade level, and at most what city.

This is fecking insane to watch from both a moral pov and an operational competency pov.
 
AfonsoAlves said:
On a moral level level: This whole unit should be court martialled, and its commander and his commander sent to prison for an exceedingly long time. This is grim to watch, because it's obvious these people enjoy doing what they're doing. The motivation for these soldiers is completely wrong, from the looks of things.

On a technical level: Holy shit these guys are unprofessional. A fecking Facebook campaign to get equipment? My god, there's a damn process for this, follow it. Every modern military has a procurement request and acquisition process (or atleast they should do, unless you're Russia) and its up to the CO to provide for things. There was a scandal in Iraq because UK troops were asking family to buy and ship over plate armour for them because the process was broken.

Every single one of these soldiers is going to now be burnt, which is great for the rest of humanity, but one cannot begin to imagine the level of incompetency around the whole IDF when their elite sniper battalions are so lacklustre in their opsec and don't take their job seriously.

You'll never find me telling anyone what unit I was attached to, what area or specific things done during operations because it's drilled into us from day 1 that that is insanely stupid. The most we'll go is at a brigade level, and at most what city.

This is fecking insane to watch from both a moral pov and an operational competency pov.
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There'd be a public backlash if they were imprisoned. Just look at the hysterical response to those gang-raping Israeli soldiers who were forcibly freed from prison by angry mobs. There's absolutely no appetite or will for the Israelis to reprimand those involved in crimes against Palestinians.
 
The embassy’s endorsement and Blinken’s statements reflect what many at the State Department have understood to be their mission for nearly a year. As one former official who served at the embassy put it, the unwritten policy was to “protect Israel from scrutiny” and facilitate the arms flow no matter how many human rights abuses are reported. “We can’t admit that’s a problem,” this former official said.
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“She understands the scale” of the disaster, says Thaer Ahmad, a Palestinian American physician who met privately with Power at her office this past spring, shortly after volunteering in Gaza where he treated the wounded and dying. Like many others I spoke with, he wishes she would take a stronger public stance against Israel’s conduct. “The obvious move would be to resign,” he said after meeting her.
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Special Report: Emails show early US concerns over Gaza offensive, risk of Israeli war crimes
The emails, which haven’t been reported before, reveal alarm early on in the State Department and Pentagon that a rising death toll in Gaza could violate international law and jeopardize U.S. ties in the Arab world. The messages also show internal pressure in the Biden administration to shift its messaging from showing solidarity with Israel to including sympathy for Palestinians and the need to allow more humanitarian aid into Gaza.
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https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...offensive-risk-israeli-war-crimes-2024-10-04/
 
Macron urged a halt to arms deliveries.
French President Emmanuel Macron on Saturday, October 5, urged a halt to arms deliveries to Israel, which has been criticized over the conduct of its retaliatory operation in Gaza.

"I think that today, the priority is that we return to a political solution, that we stop delivering weapons to fight in Gaza," Macron told broadcaster France Inter. "France is not delivering any," he added during the interview recorded early this week.
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https://www.lemonde.fr/en/internati...ries-to-israel-for-use-in-gaza_6728282_4.html
 


•Ten killed and others missing under the rubble after an Israeli airstrike targeted the Shaaban family home in Jabalia al-Balad.
•Killed and wounded in an Israeli airstrike on the Jabalia Services Club, which shelters thousands of displaced people in Jabalia camp.
•One woman killed and others injured following the targeting of an apartment in Khadura building in the center of Jabalia camp.
•Three killed and several injured after an airstrike targeted the home of the Arabeed family in Be’er al-Naaja, west of Jabalia camp.
•Injuries reported after an Israeli airstrike hit the Suleiman family’s home on Al-Qasaseeb Street in Jabalia.
•Killed and injuries following the bombing of a water distribution truck near Jabalia Services Club.
•A series of aerial and artillery strikes targeted uninhabited homes in northwest Gaza.
•Apache helicopters opened fire in areas west of northern Gaza.
•Several families were forced to flee from eastern Jabalia, Al-Karama northwest of Gaza, and the Sultan and Atatreh areas west of Beit Lahia.
 
Kaos said:
There'd be a public backlash if they were imprisoned. Just look at the hysterical response to those gang-raping Israeli soldiers who were forcibly freed from prison by angry mobs. There's absolutely no appetite or will for the Israelis to reprimand those involved in crimes against Palestinians.
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Of course. But having seen the Al Jazeera doc, there is ample evidence for the ICC to go after unit commanders and western governments really have to be prosecuting dual nationals.
 
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